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Are Muslims on TV Really on Guidance?
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[quote]perv 1 [quote] What has this to do with the above verse. READ WHAT YOU HAVE WRITTEN. i.e use your head covering to cover your bossoms. IT DOES NOT SAY COVER YOUR HEAD. If you draw that inference that is all your doing interperting it according to your whims for there is nothing in the above which says cover your head. I am no expert in clothing but exactly how do you cover your bosoms and head with the same scarf. Has it not occured to you that God considered covering the bosoms far more appropriate than the head. DO NOT CONFUSE YOUR OPINION WITH FACTS. [/quote] The verse should better be translate as cover your bosoms WITH/USING your head covering. Also, its very easy to cover your breasts with a head covering, make it large enough, so that its ends can be wrapped under your chin and over your breasts... very easy, many Muslim women do this. It very clearly states that they use their headcovering to cover their bosoms. If you cant accept the plain words then I'm sorry for you. Imagine the sentence, "cover your bellybutton with your top, that is better for modesty", will I then say, where are we told to cover anywhere other than the bellybutton? The answer, is we have a context of modesty. Allah guides with specifics and general guidelines where needed. According to you, unless Allah says to cover, individually and explicitly, every part of the body, then any part not mentioned need not be covered. AGAIN I quote the paper which answers your question [quote] * They must draw their HEAD COVERINGS around and over their bosoms. o It is disingenuous and illogical to say that they must/can remove their head coverings to cover their bosoms because: - 1. There is no need to do so in order to fulfill the command. 2. The hair of a woman is a part of her beauty, of what makes her attractive. So it must be covered. o It’s like saying (within the context of modesty) “I was told to cover my navel with my top… so I took off my top and wrapped it around my belly”… Illogical. But this is the position of the liberal Muslim, they say (by analogy), well Allah only said to cover the naval, so covering anything else must be a cultural thing that we can choose to do or not do. o To say that you are not told to cover your head is also disingenuous, because if you are told to cover your bosoms with your head covering (within the context of modesty), it is taken for granted that you are covering your head, so there is no need to explicitly state it. [b] o The Qur’an makes the practice of the headscarf covering the head and the bosoms into a rule. * Consider: - o Allah nowhere explicitly says that a woman’s back must be covered by clothing. o Allah nowhere says that ¾ of a woman’s leg cannot be exposed o Etc… [u]o But they are unambiguously implied by the command to hide a woman’s beauty (and what contributes to it) and by the command to cover themselves with a Jilbab and to use the Khimar to (also) cover their bosom. So the argument that the head is not mentioned explicitly (within the context of covering beauty and the mention of the khimar (head cover)) is merely a biased tactic to avoid wearing the head cover.[/u][/b] [/quote] next... [quote] [quote] because: - There is no need to do so in order to fulfill the command. The hair of a woman is a part of her beauty, of what makes her attractive. So it must be covered. [/quote] Again your opinion not a stated fact. Indeed some may consider a covered woman as more attractive because it adds mystique to her appearence -what do you suggest then nakedness![/quote] No, I do not suggest that: - 1- Because that is not the command of Allah 2- Because such people would constitute the vast minority (also covered women should not wear make up etc...) next... [quote] [quote] It’s like saying (within the context of modesty) “I was told to cover my navel with my top… so I took off my top and wrapped it around my belly”… Illogical. [/quote] And exactly which verse are you referring to here. The example is illogical and makes no sense in relation to any Quranic referrence.[/quote] Its called logic... check answers.com. I used this logic to make people like you understand. But truely only Allah can make the blind see... next... [quote] [quote] But this is the position of the liberal Muslim, they say (by analogy), well Allah only said to cover the naval, so covering anything else must be a cultural thing that we can choose to do or not do. [/quote] ?????????[/quote] Its strange you don't understand that... quite ironic actually. The above is essentially your position. Because according t your position, as the covering of the top of her body is not mentioned, only the navel, then we have no grounds to insist that the upper body must be covered. now compare, Allah says khimar (top) and cleavage (navel). Allah gives more details also (jilbaab, modesty, covering what beautifies). next... [quote] [quote] To say that you are not told to cover your head is also disingenuous, [/quote] Why is disingenious? do you think God is incapable of not being specific? [/quote] Allah was specific, but not in a way that you like. 1- Allah tells women to cover their beauty and what contributes to it. 2- Allah tells the to use their [u]headcoverings[/u] to cover their cleavage. 3- Allah tells women to cover themselves/their bodies with a jilbaab. But you want Allah to make a list, cover: - 1- your head 2- your neck 3- your chest 4- your back 5- your stomach 6- your private parts 7- your thighs 8- your knees 9- your lower legs 10- your arms 11- your hair So why was Allah not so specific? Because the second list is unneccesary, it is covered by the first list in a more eloquent and complete manner. next... [quote] [quote] because if you are told to cover your bosoms with your head covering (within the context of modesty), it is taken for granted that you are covering your head, [/quote] Only by you and those who like you think that God is incapable of being exact.[/quote] Only by those with logic and without the liberal bias you have. It is implied by the command to cover what contributes to beauty ALONE, but on top of that we have Allah telling women to cover their chest with their head covering. next... [quote] [quote] so there is no need to explicitly state it. [/quote] No need. Correct but not for the reason you mention. Interesting you accept that it is not explicitly stated and then draw a conclusion and expect everyone to accept your conclusion as fact-very logical! [/quote] neither is the covering of thighs, calfs, arms or back. Yet we can logically infer they must be covered... You see, logic is important... And there is no need because we are uder no doubt it is required. next... [quote] [quote] The Qur’an makes the practice of the headscarf covering the head and the bosoms into a rule. [/quote] You state that it does not mention head covering explicity but now say it is a Quranic rule. We obviousouly have different idea as to what constitutes a Quranic rule. [/quote] Allah tells us to not even go near to fornication. to lower our gaze and protect our modesty etc... now from this we can easily derive that we cannot watch pornography. But according to you as Allah does not say "do not watch porn whether in vhs or dvd or wmv or avi or ram or etc..." then we can watch porn. Allah gives guidelines and specifics where needed. Does Allah explicity mention not watching porn? where? BUT IT IS VERY CLEARLY IMPLIED BY ANALOGY AND BY UNDERSTANDING THE GENERAL RULINGS OF MODESTY ETC... [quote]I think you need to be clear what is a fact and what is opinion. Your opinion (no matter how clever you think it is) does not become a Quranic fact. Simple every day scenario. If I ask you use you bed covering to cover your dining table (let us ignore my reasons for the moment) I am not telling you to cover both but explicity told you to cover your dining table with your bed covering. If I wanted you to cover both even simpleton like me would have said so and yet we are talking about God (who never runs out of word). I WILL STATE AGAIN YOUR OPINION IS YOUR OPINION AND NOT QURANIC FACT. regards[/quote] Your scenario fails as it does not mirror the Qur'anic example. The bed and the table are not the same object (unless you are poor), whereas a head and breasts are not only on the same body, they are close to each other and the covering of both fits in under the general rule of modesty and the covering of what contributes to beauty. It is true Allah does not run out of words, but Allah also only says what is needed, otherwise the Qur'an would be 1000000 pages long. I found this last night... It is not necessary for my point but it may help you. From renaissance 2000: - Is Covering the Head essential for Women? Question: I am a student of the Qur’an. After going through it many many times, I have come to the conclusion that nowhere does it mention that women should cover their heads. In the following verse, God is asking women to cover their bosoms with a Khimar (a dress, a coat, a shawl, a shirt, a scarf, etc.), not their heads or their hair. And tell believing women to lower their eyes, and maintain their chastity. They shall not reveal any parts of their bodies, except that which is necessary. They shall cover their chests, [with their Khimar] and shall not relax this code in the presence of other than their husbands, their fathers, the fathers of their husbands, their sons, the sons of their husbands, their brothers, the sons of their brothers, the sons of their sisters, other women, the male servants or employees whose sexual drive has been nullified, or the children who have not reached puberty… (24:31) After all the Almighty does not run out of words. If He required of the believing women to cover their heads, He would have clearly said so. Is not then covering the head a cultural tradition? Is it not that it is this tradition which scholars have erroneously identified with Islam? Please comment. Answer: You see it is imperative while interpreting the verses of the Qur’an to determine the addressee of a particular verse otherwise one is bound to end up misinterpreting the verse. The address in the Qur’an changes among the various groups present (Muslims, Jews, Christians, Hypocrites), and if one reflects on the context of a verse and has a flare for the language of this Divine masterpiece, it is not difficult to grasp who among the groups is addressed. As far as 24:31 is concerned, it is obvious from its very first words that the believing women of the Prophet’s times are addressed. The Arabic word used for believing women is ‘Al-Mu’minat’. People normally translate this word without taking into account the article ‘Al’ (alif-lam) appended to the word ‘Mu’minat’. The particle ‘Al’ if properly translated together with the word ‘Mu’minat’ to which it is attached would mean ‘these believing women’ and not ‘believing women’. The phrase ‘these believing women’ obviously refers to the believing women who were present at the time these verses were revealed. It is an established historical fact the believing women of those times used to wear a khimar (a covering) on their heads and then made it fall along their bodies without covering their chests. It is they who are addressed and told that they must cover their chests as well. In other words, since the directive is given to women who already covered their heads but did not cover their chests, it was not required to mention the covering of the head. So the point which needs to be understood is that while translating these verses one must give due consideration to the word ‘Al-Mu’minat’ and see in what form believing women already dressed and what was the additional directive given to them. Moreover, the nature of this directive is such that it cannot be confined to the believing women of the Prophet’s times: it pertains to every believing women. All directives which have moral implications are general. For example if it had been said in the Qur’an that ‘these believing women should always uphold the truth and never lie’, then though the believing women of a particular age are addressed, it obviously cannot be concluded that believing women of later times are not bound by this directive. Therefore, in my opinion, covering the head is neither a cultural tradition nor the product of some scholar: It is the purport of the Qur’an. Edited by: marwan on Thursday, November 09, 2006 11:10 AM Edited by: marwan on Saturday, July 10, 2010 2:18 PM[/quote]
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