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[quote]aboosait===> salam.. thank u very much for your reply.. first time u answered according to my IQ level....as I do not have too much knowledge about islam..but i am student and i always [b]try[/b] to question with logic and authentic evidences... what u said , I learned a lot from it...but let me allow to argue little on following points... [quote] They, the Sufis have their own interpretation of Tawhid different from what the Sahaba and the Salaf learnt and understood from the Qur'an and Sunnah. [/quote] i disagree......they believe in our Tawheed [b]first[/b] and then they do [b]addition[/b]. In this way, they are doing "bida't" (innovation).. but they did not become non-muslim. [quote] Soofee mystics claim that Allaah is incarnated in special Soofee saints. Amongst the most daring Soofis who held to the concept of incarnation was Al-Hallaaj who was tried for his heresy and put to death by the‘Abbaasid authorities. [/quote] AL hallaj is that so-called sufi, who was hanged by fatwa of NOT only non-sufi scholars but some big sufis of that time (Junaid baghdadi one of them)...and even after his death till long time, many sufis condemn him openly.... So please do not make him your example in order to consider all sufis as NON-MUSLIM.... [quote] AlGhazaalee, may Allaah forgive him, in his book Ihyaa ‘Ulum ad-Deen. He said: “Anyone who does not see Allaah in everything, then he sees ‘other’ than Him,” and that “The pure Tawheed is to see in everything nothing but Allaah .” [/quote] this is really a misguided statement in its apparent sense....but it could be in tashbeeh form.... a person is so obssessed with GOd that he sees everywhere GOD... what is wrong in saying it in Tashbeeh.. when there is [b]flood[/b] in a city, everbody would say that "I saw water everywhere...or "whereever I see , it is water" ..does it mean that [b]in every inch of that city is water...[/b] personally I believe that this is a misguided statement..but how it makes them non-muslim??? u can say them..."sinner"!!! [quote] Ibn ‘Arabi considered all kinds creeds to be true and he believed in them all. This is his “Unity of Worship”. [/quote] many latter scholars who believed in sufism (many deobandi scholars) .... consider ibn-arabi a misguided sufi (as Hallaj)..so he is controversial....he [b]does not represent the all sufi group..[/b] [quote] In the sight of the mystic Soofis, the Prophet (s.a.w) is looked upon in ways that oppose the path which Allaah (s.w.t)intended for the believers. [/quote] yes ! this is wrong but how u would kick them out of islam for this reason????..again they could be sinner but not non-muslim... [quote] The Soofee mystics refer to Prophet Muhammad (s.a.w) as being the “Perfect Man” [/quote] what is wrong in it ...after all they consider Him (PBUH) a [b]man[/b]...u can disagree if u want..... [quote] From Muhammad, the entire creation, this world and the Hereafter, was brought to exist!! They consider the Prophet (s.a.w) as the first created being and from him originated rest of creation [/quote] again, this is their belief...what is against islam here???.... u can disagree with this concept...this is not against basic of islam. [quote] and that he himself is the God who is above the Throne. [/quote] this is again [b]a wrong allegation [/b] on them...No authentic and famous sufi said like that....many quack or dappa pir may have said , I do not know... [b]please be reasonable and give good authentic evidence from authentic sufis' books ..(like Ghazali ..u gave earlier)[/b] [quote] Some Soofis hold to the same concept as above but do not say that the essence of Muhammad is above the ‘Arsh. [/quote] again it is an [b]allegation..prove it or do not say please....[/b] [quote] Many Soofis claim that the light of Muhammad (s.a.w) is the first being, and that he is the most honorable of creation and for his sake Allaah has created the universe. [/quote] [b]u can disagree with this but how it is against basic islam???[/b] [quote] and that he is the most honorable of creation, [/quote] I think [b]u[/b] and [b]me [/b] and [b]all muslims believe this[/b]..... [quote] that the Prophet (s.a.w) knows the Ghayb and that nothing escapes his knowledge in the heavens and on the earth. [/quote] again it is an exagerated belief...u can disagree....[b]but it is not enough to consider then non-muslim...[/b] [quote] Such concepts, beliefs, and practices concerning the Prophet (s.a.w) are corrupt and contradict the Message of the Qur’aan and Sunnah as well as the way of the true believers, the Sahaabah and those who followed them on the path of righteousness, (may Allaah be pleased with them all.) [/quote] [b]I agree with you here[/b]...but in this way, they are misguided in some concept and sinner.....but not out of Islam.... [b]our discussion is on that[/b]: [u]they are out of islam or not???[/u] otherwise they are wrong in their many concepts,[b] we both agree[/b]...[/quote]
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