Powered by
UI
Techs
Home
>
Forums
>
General Forums
>
General Discussion
>
The Qur'an and the Sunnah
Post Reply
Username
Invalid Username or Password
Password
Format
Andale Mono
Arial
Arial Black
Book Antiqua
Century Gothic
Comic Sans MS
Courier New
Georgia
Impact
Tahoma
Times New Roman
Trebuchet MS
Script MT Bold
Stencil
Verdana
Lucida Console
1
2
3
4
5
6
Message Icon
Message
- Forum Code is ON
- HTML is OFF
Smilies
[quote][pre][quote][quote]...... The words used are always "obey the word messenger". This is to emphasise that it is the "message" of God that is to be obeyed and not the personal words or views of the messenger.......... the followers of hadith have made claims that their cherished hadith books (primarily Bukhari and Muslim) are fully authentic (Sahih) and without corruption!...............[/quote] [blue]Samsher, Instead of answering the questions I had asked in my post you have copied and pasted some text from the writings of Hadith rejectors like Rashid Khalifa. Allah says, Al-Baqara (The Cow) ثُمَّ أَنتُمْ هَـؤُلاء تَقْتُلُونَ أَنفُسَكُمْ وَتُخْرِجُونَ فَرِيقاً مِّنكُم مِّن دِيَارِهِمْ تَظَاهَرُونَ عَلَيْهِم بِالإِثْمِ وَالْعُدْوَانِ وَإِن يَأتُوكُمْ أُسَارَى تُفَادُوهُمْ وَهُوَ مُحَرَّمٌ عَلَيْكُمْ إِخْرَاجُهُمْ أَفَتُؤْمِنُونَ بِبَعْضِ الْكِتَابِ وَتَكْفُرُونَ بِبَعْضٍ فَمَا جَزَاء مَن يَفْعَلُ ذَلِكَ مِنكُمْ إِلاَّ خِزْيٌ فِي الْحَيَاةِ الدُّنْيَا وَيَوْمَ الْقِيَامَةِ يُرَدُّونَ إِلَى أَشَدِّ الْعَذَابِ وَمَا اللّهُ بِغَافِلٍ عَمَّا تَعْمَلُونَ (2:85) Translation of the meanings: 2:85 (Y. Ali) After this it is ye, the same people, who slay among yourselves, and banish a party of you from their homes; assist (Their enemies) against them, in guilt and rancour; and if they come to you as captives, ye ransom them, though it was not lawful for you to banish them. [hl]Then is it only a part of the Book that ye believe in, and do ye reject the rest?[/hl] but what is the reward for those among you who behave like this but disgrace in this life?- and on the Day of Judgment they shall be consigned to the most grievous penalty. For Allah is not unmindful of what ye do. In order to prove your deviant view, you have ignored the Verses which I conveyed to you. I repeat one such Verse: An-Nahl (The Bee) بِالْبَيِّنَاتِ وَالزُّبُرِ وَأَنزَلْنَا إِلَيْكَ الذِّكْرَ لِتُبَيِّنَ لِلنَّاسِ مَا نُزِّلَ إِلَيْهِمْ وَلَعَلَّهُمْ يَتَفَكَّرُونَ (16:44) [16:44] With clear signs and Books (We sent the Messengers). And We have also sent down unto you (O Muhammad SAW) the reminder and the advice (the Quran), [hl]that you may explain clearly to men what is sent down to them,[/hl] and that they may give thought. I wrote: [hl]To hadith rejecters: WHERE ARE THOSE EXPLANATIONS THAT ALLAH COMMANDED THE LAST PROPHET TO MAKE? Allah allowed them to be lost? ... how would those explanations help our generation?[/hl] After that I quoted some more Verses (Please scroll back and read) and then I wrote: NOW, WILL ANY HADITH REJECTOR GUIDE ME ON HOW I CAN OBEY THE FINAL MESSENGER (Muhammad SAW) if his sayings and his guidance are not available to me, as claimed by them? Those who believe in the authenticity of hadeeth collections compiled by Bukhari, Muslim etc advise me to consider these collections to be truthful and consider them as the sayings and guidance of the FINAL MESSENGER (Muhammad SAW). Why should I suspect years of research work done centuries ago by sincere, honest and righteous Isalmic scholars? Simply because a few of the ahadeeth does not suit my temperament or make keep me away from things I love to do? Kindly ponder over this: the FINAL MESSENGER (Muhammad SAW) of Allah is supposed to be a role model for us (the whole of mankind), but how can I follow him or learn from his role if his guidance is not available to me at all. Will Allah ever ask His servants to do something impossible (follow some one whose sayings are not available at all in authentic form)?[/blue] Edited by: aboosait on Thursday, July 28, 2011 11:52 AM[/quote] Quote:- 2:85 (Y. Ali) After this it is ye, the same people, who slay among yourselves, and banish a party of you from their homes; assist (Their enemies) against them, in guilt and rancour; and if they come to you as captives, ye ransom them, though it was not lawful for you to banish them. Then is it only a part of the Book that ye believe in, and do ye reject the rest? but what is the reward for those among you who behave like this but disgrace in this life?- and on the Day of Judgment they shall be consigned to the most grievous penalty. For Allah is not unmindful of what ye do. [b]Answer:- [/b] I am surprised why did you refer this verse here specially the highlighted portion. Any way, You told that this is my deviant view. What is the meaning of deviant brother? I think it should be deviate. Please check the word in dictionary. However, may I ask you which view of mine you considered is deviant? Is it that Hadith should be rejected as source of Islam? If yes, then brother you please give me any reference from Qur’an where it says that prophetic(??) Hadith besides Quran should be taken as source of Islam. Quote:- [16:44] With clear signs and Books (We sent the Messengers). And We have also sent down unto you (O Muhammad SAW) the reminder and the advice (the Quran), that you may explain clearly to men what is sent down to them, and that they may give thought. [b]Answer[/b]:- Highlighted portion of verse 16:44 :- Traditionalists have opted for what we consider an inaccurate rendering of the Arabic root word "BYN." The word 'lituBaYyeNa is a derivative of "BYN," which is a multiple-meaning word. It means: [b]1. To reveal what is concealed; or 2. To explain what is vague.[/b]Thus the first meaning is the antonym of "hide," and the second is the antonym of "make vague." We should understand this passage in accordance with the first meaning, and understand the passage as relating to God's order to Muhammad to proclaim the revelation which is revealed to him personally. Now why should we understand this passage in accordance with the first meaning? Because we believe that the Quran is clear, as its text itself insists. Indeed, [b]"proclaiming" [/b] is the whole mission of the messengers of God, as the Quran maintains (16:35). To be sure, prophets sometimes experience difficulty in proclaiming the revelation (33:37, 20:25). But if the Quran is a profound book written in Arabic so that people may understand (12:2), if it is to be explained by God (75:19), and if it is simple to understand (5:15; 26:195; 11:1; 54:17; 55:1-2), then it is hard to see why or how the prophet is to assume the additional mission of explaining the divine message. I emphasize, once again, that 75:19 holds that God explains the Quran, and makes no mention of Muhammad or any other prophet, or indeed any human explanation whatsoever. Thus, the word lituBaYyeNa of 16:44, which we should read as "proclaim," is similar to the one in 3:187. Verse 3:187 tells us that the people who received the revelation should "… proclaim the scripture to the people, and never hide it." (3:187) What this means is that the messenger is authorised only in delivering/proclaiming the message of the Quran and nothing else. All what he preaches to us from the Quran must be obeyed, but not any other teachings that do not have reference or authorisation in the Quran. To obey the messenger blindly in every word he ever uttered is the work of those who are intent on making an idol out of the messenger, and they do so by corrupting yet another Quranic verses which says “obey God and the messenger”. The moment they uphold the personal sayings of the messenger or any kind of personal teachings which are not authorised in the Quran they immediately become guilty of idol worship: [b]"They follow idols who decree for them religious laws never authorized by God. If it were not for the predetermined decision, they would have been judged immediately. Indeed, the transgressors have incurred a painful retribution." 42:21[/b] Quote:- I wrote: NOW, WILL ANY HADITH REJECTOR GUIDE ME ON HOW I CAN OBEY THE FINAL MESSENGER (Muhammad SAW) if his sayings and his guidance are not available to me, as claimed by them? [b]Answer[/b] :- I think you got the answer. 2ndly as per Quran, Muhammad was not the Final Messenger. "Muhammad was not the father of any man among you. He was a messenger of God and the final prophet. God is fully aware of all things". 33:40 It clearly transpires from the above verse that Muhammad was the Final prophet but not the Final messenger. samsher[/pre][/quote]
Mode
Prompt
Help
Basic
Check here to be notified by email whenever someone replies to your topic
Show Preview
Share
|
Copyright
Studying-Islam
© 2003-7 |
Privacy Policy
|
Code of Conduct
|
An Affiliate of
Al-Mawrid Institute of Islamic Sciences ®
Top