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The Qur'an and the Sunnah
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[quote][size=2]Salam, Quote:- I do understand when Mr. Ijaz wrote about Quran’s Authenticity in these words; which you reject completely: It's Simple that If there is an ARGUMENT about a Scripture then the PROOF will Come from OUTSIDE. But you said that we believe in Quran because it says so. >>> Brother, you understood Mr. Ijaz’s words but perhaps did not understand my opinion which is as follows; The proof that the Quran is the word of God is not God says in It that It is His word, anyone can write a book and write in it (God says this is his book). The proof that the Qur’an is the word of God is found in the scientific information in the Quran, this extensive information was not know to mankind when the Quran was revealed and now the Mathematical Miracle of the Qur’an also provide an absolute proof that the book is from God. However, the true believers will believe in the Qur’an even before the proof is given, this is because when they read the words of God they will know that they are from God (2:2-3, 19:58). So while as true believers believe in the Qur’an even without a proof, it can also be said that the scientific/mathematical contents provide the absolute proof to strengthen the faith of those who already believed. I hope you understand now. Quote:- Let say someone brings you another Quran with some changes but keeping the words you mentioned; “THEY BELIEVE IN WHAT WAS REVEALED TO YOU, AND IN WHAT WAS REVEALED BEFORE YOU” and ”WHO BELIEVE IN THE UNSEEN”. And also the words 15:9 “We have without doubt sent down the Message; and We will assuredly guard it (from corruption)” How would you distinguish which one is the real? >>> Several times I have answered this question. Does not require to give any further explanation here. How can you reply if any one ask this question to you as you asked me the above? You can see many ancient documents, tablets and books in museums and special sections of libraries. They are preserved by human effort and technology for hundreds and even thousands of years. If the preservation of the Quran was similar to this "normal" and "ordinary" human affair, then, why should God emphasize Himself and give the impression that the preservation of the Quran is a "divine" and "unique" feature? It is not necessarily a divine merit for a book to be pre-served by its zealot followers. For instance, Bukhari is a document, which has been well preserved for approximately 12 centuries. Then what will be the difference between Quran’s preservation and preservation of Bukhari hadith? So your or your team’s thinking that Qur’an reached us through Twatir, Ijma, is wrong. Quran preserved by God and it reached us according to the will of God not through men-made Twatir, Ijma…..etc. Once you say that Qur’an was preserved by God but then you say that Qur’an reached to us through twatir………etc. Do you think that God cannot take the responsibility of reaching the Qur’an to us (may Allah forgive me) except through men-made twatir……..ijma……..etc? After we have seen the Satanic nature of hadith and sectarian jurisprudence produced by our great ancestors and respected ulama, how can you expect us to trust them as the preservers of the Quran? What is your answer if one asks you the following question: You refer to the history (books) written by Muslims and claim that thousands of believers memorized the Quran that we have today. According to the history that you refer to, the Quran was not compiled in a book during the time of prophet Muhammad. Any claim by a Muslim (?) would be accepted if they could produce the second witness. In fact, some of the verses were accepted even without the second witness. There are hundreds of arguments regarding the Quran during the reign of the first four Caliphs. It is a historical fact (accepted by both Sunnis and Shiites) that Marwan burned the original Manuscript in order to stop the accelerating arguments over the Quran, which provides the best explanation for the disappearance of Muhammad’s manuscript. What if then, the corrupt leaders of the Umayyad Caliphate officially accepted and added verses 9.128-129 to the manuscripts since they were accepted by many people? What if the opponents were oppressed and forced to hide their opposition? What if Shiite’s under-ground claim regarding the distortion of the Quran is an exaggerated continuation of the early reaction against the original distortion? If x million of them could agree on the authenticity of Bukhari, then it is possible that 2x million of them could agree on the authenticity of the Quran. If millions of Shiite could insert Ali’s name in the Azhan, then it is possible that millions of Muslims could insert Muhammad’s name in the Azhan. (Ironically, hadith books confirm this claim by narrating Azhan containing 19 words.) If millions of Christians can believe that their Bible is preserved by ignoring Nicene Conference and important textual problems, then it is possible that millions of Muslims could believe that their Quran is preserved by ignoring the early arguments, Marwan, and narrated textual conflicts. Obviously, there are differences in the degree, but not in the nature of the thing. Now there are thousands of copies of the original Quran that do not contain 9.128-129 are circulated and read all around the world. Does this version of the Quran refute the divine promise in verse 15.9? If your answer will start, "No, the distortion made by a community of diverted people does not refute the verse, be-cause. . . . ", then our answer will also start, "No, the distortion made by idol worshipers after prophet Muhammad centuries ago does not refute the verse, be-cause. . . . " What is the difference between these two cases? If you resort to the number of years or the number of followers, then we resort to the number 19, which is a Zikra, a divine warning for human race. Additionally, we remind you of verse 5.100. The validity of a negative statement or challenge (such as in verse 41.42) cannot be proved unless we witness the failure of attempts against it. It is a circular argument to say that it is preserved be-cause it claims so, since the claim of preservation also is under question. Similarly we cannot say that it is preserved because it is preserved. For instance, if I claim that no one can climb the walls of my castle, my challenge will not make sense until some people try and fail to do so. If the trials and failures of some people demonstrate that my castle’s walls have been protected by an impenetrable surface with virtually zero friction supported by high volt-age electricity and an automatic alarm system, then my challenge is proven. An example of such proof is the word "Bastatan" in 7.69. The code 19, demonstrated that falsehood can never enter the Quran (please remember the parable of the gold ring that is also preserved from falsehood). If you look at the Quran in your hand you will see that the word "Bastatan" in verse 7.69 is misspelled with "Sad." We detected this minor printing error through the Quran’s mathematical code. When we studied the oldest available versions, for instance, the Tashkent Copy, we found that it is exactly the way that we had predicted according to the mathematical structure. Besides, how can you answer the question regarding the authenticity of the very verse that claims the preservation. What if, after the dangerous arguments started soon after the death of prophet Muhammad, some zealots constructed or fabricated the verses 15.9 and 41.42, and it was well ac-accepted by pragmatist leaders to heal the social discord in their land? After all, there were no shortage of people who could produce Arabic statements in the name of God or the prophet. Salam, Samsher.[/size=2] Edited by: ibrahim on Friday, December 09, 2005 10:19 AM[/quote]
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