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[quote]Assalam alaikum

Mr Ibrahim

You keep saying the saying thing, but how do we know if something is what the prophet said or not? How can we be sure?

Mr Abu Jamiylah

[quote]It is incredible how people can believe the Qur'aan is really what the people had in those times and it made it safely through all those hands and can not see the ahaadith likewise.[/quote]

Brother, it is not incredible. There is a guarantee in the Quran that it is in a lock, that no one can change it ever. This guarantee is from God. There is no such guarantee in the Hadith which is not even from God! 
We do not believe in the integrity of the Quran since it was first revealed because of the way it was handed down to us, but because of God's guarantee that it will never be changed!

[quote]The ahaadith were being described as "person to person" instead of "generation to generation....many were Person A talking to a group of people B's"[/quote]
But it was not group of people showing it to another group of people in next generation - that is how Sunnah and holy Quran have come down to us, it was not one individual to spread the knowledge (except for in the beginning with the prophet himself). And when you have one person telling something to a group, and then people in the group pass that knowledge to others, there is a very high chance the message will get distorted, as is evident if you study hadith literature.

[quote]So in truth, it was not PROVEN that he lied in that instance. What was proven, if you research the matter is that he fell short of the number of witnesses[/quote]
My case is not if he lied or said the truth. It is a simple matter of implementing the Sharia. Sharia says to reject his testimony. Even if he said the truth, we should reject it becasue Sharia says so.

[quote]If you had a portion of their knowledge and taqwaa you would know what they know about this verse and you would know that they feared Allaah enough to not willingly contradict him[/quote]
Brother you have fallen into the trap of believing that every famous scholar behind you did not make any mistake. They were human beings, and if you read their testimonials, they say themselves that their work can have errors.

[quote]So why not ask them? Why not read their work that they put so much real time into and see what they came up with?[/quote]
Good idea!

[quote]You dare call them "midieval".[/quote]
What is wrong with that, they were from mideaval times, were they not? There is nothing deoragatory about it at all.

I think many Muslims today believe that the early scholars were perfect human beings and their work has no errors at all. Then we start accepting their work and do no question anything. We then don't use our intellect. Tell me, is there anything wrong in questioning the early scholars to better understand what and why they did something? Is that a crime?

May Allah (swt) guide us!!![/quote]

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