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[quote][quote] I am sorry but you still seem to be missing the point. [/quote]

Yes I really missed your point,
 but now please allow me to disagree with you a little, and I think it is important.....

[quote] When I mentioned Saudi men I did not mean they are bad or they are immoral what I wanted to point out was clothes, hijab does not stop men from staring or passing remarks [/quote]

first of all, from all rules of ethics, islamic, other religious or civic, [b]to stare or passing remarks is bad and immoral.[/b] SO in your friend example , those who were staring like she mentioned, wheather staring  to a girl with scarf or to a girl without scarf, was bad and immoral.
 And all saudis, or pakistanis or any male whenever do it , he would be consider bad and immoral.

now let us come to your point....

[quote] it is only the consequences that stops them. [/quote]

yes consequences work sometimes, but not everytime....it is my believe that [b]self moral values [/b] always more effective in stopping you something immoral...

whole college life I did many times such immorals activities (which i regret), but I was always afraid of my mother that if she knows , I would make suicide....  although it was just, as u mentioned earlier, [b]&quot;staring and passing remarks&quot;,[/b] but my mother's teaching was very strict against such activities as well.

I know some of my friends whose mothers used to say that &quot;oy puttar ay tay jawan ay, kia karay&quot;...
this  mentality need to be changed that because he is man and jawan , so he is tempted to do that...
(although man is tempted when he is jawan to such activities....lols....but this should not be considered a valid excuse for such activities. And islam does not take this excuse as vaild and forbids it).

I wrote earlier:

[quote] &quot;as a man, I can tell you that majority of men consider scarf and hijab woman more respectful than one who is without scarf and hijab.....&quot; [/quote]

[b]and u responded[/b]:
 [quote] This is a new one do muslim men really think that?.... [/quote].

[b]not only majority of muslim men,but majority of non muslim men also think like that.....but here u missed my point...[/b]

[b]u wrote[/b]:

[quote] as I don't wear a head scarf or take a chadder so I will not be [b]given respect [/b] by these so called religious men.[/quote]

please [b]read[/b] my [b]wording[/b] again.
In my [u]&quot;not very good&quot;[/u] english I used word [red]&quot;consider[/red]&quot;....i meant [b]in their mind they [red]consider[/red][/b]......

you [b]took[/b] it as [red]&quot;given&quot;[/red] respect....

there is a [b]big differance [/b] between [b]&quot;considering respectful[/b]&quot; and [b]&quot;giving respect[/b]&quot;.

Many hollywood/bollywood actors and actresses, what they do in their movies, [b]most women and men do not consider them respectful[/b],
 but if any actress or actor meet or interact with them, they would [b]give[/b] them respect by their [b]hospitality and kindness...[/b]

another example:

many world leaders did not [b]consider[/b] 
George Bush as respectful but they [b]gave[/b] him respect whenever they meet him...

in case of G.BUSH, even his some security gaurds, may be, did not like him and consider him disrespectful, but in duty, they have to salute him......lols

so do not u worry....Alhamdolilah....most men usually [b]give respect [/b] women irrespective of their dressing...but they do not [b]consider[/b] them as respectful as the woman with proper dressing .
i am not saying , this view is right..i m just telling you.. man's thinking as a man. 
Personally, I believe this perception is wrong and  should be changed and women should be considered also respectful whatever they dress.
and as I emphasized earlier that if mothers, sisters and wives will have [b]zero tolerance [/b] for their sons, younger brothers and husbands [b]in this regard,[/b] the scenario could be changed fastly.[/quote]

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