| Author | Topic |
Razi Allah
PAKISTAN
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 Topic initiated on Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 1:30 AM 
The Second Advent of Jesus?
How important to you is the belief, if at all, in the second advent of Jesus? Do you consider your faith incomplete without this aspect? If so, is it easily and clearly demonstrable from the Quran?
Edited by - Razi Allah on September 18 2003 01:30:45
Edited by - Razi Allah on October 09 2003 01:02:23 |
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aslam
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 6:12 PM 
Salams,
Razi Allah
You have put forward a good subject for discussion!To me the belief in the second advent of Christ holds no importance.It is not demonstrable from the Quran. |
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Ronnie
USA
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Posted - Thursday, September 18, 2003 - 6:56 PM
It amazes me that God would include in His book for us not to eat pork, yet something so grand, in my opinion, as the return of Christ is totally unspoken of. As a matter of fact there's no foundation, not even a hint at such an occurance. Yet, Muslims hold on to that belief just as strongly as Christians hold on their belief of salvation through Christ. Actually, I think that Muslims tend to put even more emphasis on the return of Jesus than Christians do.
Edited by - ronnie on September 18 2003 18:57:24 |
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ayesha
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, September 19, 2003 - 11:44 AM
Return of Christ holds absolutely no importancce to me. Quarn does not mention this anywhere. I completely agree with Ronnie here. If this were to happen, this was too big an event to miss out.
Mohammed (sws) was to be the last prophet (we believe 'last' in every sense....last prophet till the universe sees its end). It is interesting to note that a second advent of Christ subtly negates the very fact. |
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Tariq Hashmi
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, September 19, 2003 - 12:22 PM
| But what about the legion of reports scattered through the works of Muslim history? How do you explain that? |
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ayesha
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, September 19, 2003 - 1:58 PM
I am sorry I do not qualify to comment upon hadith literature nor have I taken the task up.
This was my understanding; I have no knowledge of the reports being authentic or otherwise.
However, I do believe, the second advent of Jesus has got nothing to do with the basic components of the religion and it is quite complete without it. |
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saraj
USA
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Posted - Saturday, September 20, 2003 - 12:07 AM
Text
Jesus (Isa) [AS] in Islam and His Second Coming by Mufti A.H. Elias
I. Jesus (A.S.) In Islam
Muslims do believe that Isa (A.S.) was sent down as a Prophet of Allah (God), but he (Jesus) is not God or Lord, nor the son of God. Muslims do not believe that Isa (A.S.), also known as Jesus by Christians and others, is dead or was ever crucified. We believe that he was raised to heaven and is there, and will descend at the appointed time, end all wars, and bring peace to the world. Like Jesus (A.S.), Muhammad (Peace be upon him) is also a Prophet and Messenger. Muhammed (P.B.U.H.) is the last Prophet, though, and there is none after him. Hence, Islam is the last religion, complete, with the Holy Qur'an as the unchanged and perfect word of God for over 1400 years, as God promised to preserve it till the last day for all of humankind, unlike sacred texts of other religions which have mulitple versions and are "revised" periodically. God, or Allah in Arabic, is Divine and Supreme Being and Creator.
What the Holy Qur'an says about Jesus:
They slew him not, nor did they crucify him but it was made dubious to them. (Holy Qur'an, Surah Nisaa, Verse 157)
Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) himself told of the coming of Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him). In the Bible, Jesus (A.S.) says,
If you love me, Keep my commandments. And I will pray to the Father and He shall give you another comforter that he may abide with you forever. (Bible, John 14-15/16)
But when the comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the spirit of Truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me, and he also shall bear witness, because ye have been with me from the beginning. (Bible, John 15-26/27)
I have yet many things to say unto you, but you cannot bear them now. How be it when he, the spirit of Truth will come, he will guide you into all truth, for he shall speak not of himself, but whatsoever he shall hear, that he shall speak, and he will show you things to come. He shall glorify me, for he shall receive of mine, and he shall show it unto you. (Bible, John 16-12/14)
Ulema (learned scholars in Islam) have said that the person who is described by Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) to come after him - in the above verse - does not comply with any other person but Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him).
In this case, the "comforter" he mentions is none other than Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him) and his laws and way of life (Shariah) and Book (Holy Qur'an) are those that Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) asks his followers to abide by.
The "person" whom Jesus (A.S.) prophecised will come after him, is called Pargaleeta in the Bible . This word was deleted by interpreters and translators and changed at times to "Spirit of Truth" and at other times, to "comforter" and sometimes "Holy Spirit." The original Greek and its meaning is "one whom people praise exceedingly." The sense of the word, then, is applicable to the word Muhammad in Arabic, since Muhammad means "the praised one."
Jesus (A.S.) also says in the Bible,
... and a little while and you shall not see me; and again a little while, you shall see me because I go to the Father. (Bible, John 16:16)
... and the Holy Qur'an says,
And surely they slew him not. But Allah (God) raised him unto Himself. (Holy Qur'an, Surah Nisaa, Verse 157-158)
As such, Muslims believe that Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) was raised to heaven. According to Hadith, he is on the second heaven. Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam=Peace be upon him) mentioned, "During the Meraj (Ascension), I met Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) on the second heaven. I found him of medium stature, reddish white. His body was so clean and clear, that it appeared as though he had just performed ghusal (ablution, cleansing of the entire body) and come."
In another Hadith, Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) mentioned to the Jews that, " Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) is not dead, he will most surely return to you before Qiyamat (the Day of Judgement)."
May Allah Guide all people to the Truth. Aameen.
(For more information about Jesus A.S. in Islam, Click Here)
II. Hadhrat Isa's (A.S.) Descension The Physical Features of Hadhrat Isa (A.S.)
He will resemble the famous Sahabi (A.S.) Hadhrat Urwa bin Masoodi (R.A.). He will be of average height and red and white in colour. His hair spread to the shoulders, straight, neat and shining as after a bath. On bending his head, it will seem as if pearls are falling. He will have an armour on his body. He will be wearing two pieces of cloth light yellow in color.
His Descension
He will descend on a Jamaat (group) that will be righteous at the time and comprising of 800 men and 400 women. The people will be preparing for war at the time against Dajjal (the anti-Christ). It will be time for Fajr prayers, and Imam Mahdi will be the Amir (leader). From the darkness of the dawn, a sound will suddenly be heard that "one who listens to your pleas has come" -- the righteous people will look everywhere and their eyes will fall on Isa (A.S.).
Briefly, at the time of Fajr, Isa (A.S.) will descend. When descending, Isa (A.S.)'s hands will be on the shoulders of two angels (according to another source (Kab Abrar), a cloud will carry him). On their insistence Hadhrat Isa will introduce himself. He will inquire about their enthusiasm and thoughts on Jihad against Dajjal. Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will descend on the eastern side near the Minaret in Damascus (or in Baitul-Muqaddus by Imam Mahdi). At the time Imam Mahdi will have proceeded forward to lead the Fajr Salaat.
The Iqamat of the Salaat would have been said (already recited) and Imam Mahdi will call Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) for Imamat (to lead the prayer), but he (Hadhrat Isa (A.S.)) will instead tell Imam Mahdi to lead the prayer since the Iqamat of that Salaat has already been said for him. Thus Imam Mahdi will lead the prayer, and Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will follow him. After the ruku, he will make this statement: "Allah has killed Dajjal and the Muslims have appeared."
The Killing of Dajjal (anti-Christ) and the Victory of the Muslims
After the completion of Fajr Salaat (congregational dawn prayers), Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will open the door behind him where Dajjal accompanied by 70,000 Yahudis (Jews) will be. He will indicate with his hand to move away between him (Hadhrat Isa (A.S.)) and Dajjal. Dajjal will then see Hadhrat Isa (A.S.). At that time every Kafir on whom the breath of Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will reach, will die. His breath will reach up to the distance of his eyesight. The Muslims will then come down from the mountains and break loose on the army of Dajjal. There will be war, Dajjal will retreat, and Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will pursue Dajjal. Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will have two flexible swords and one shield with him and with these he will kill Dajjal at the Gate of Hudd. He willl show the Muslims the blood of Dajjal which will get on his shield. Eventually the Yahudis will be selected and killed. The swine will be killed and the cross broken. People will revert to Islam. Wars will end, and people will return to their respective countries. One Jamaat (group) of Muslims will remain in his service and companionship.
Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will go to Fajr Rawha and perform Haj or Umrah (or both) from there. He will also go to the grave of Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) and present his greetings and Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam) will reply. People will live comfortable lives. The wall of Yajooj and Majooj (Gog and Magog) will then break.
III. The Blessings of Hadhrat Isa (Jesus) (A.S.)
1 Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will descend and stay on earth.
2 His descension will be in the last era of the Ummat.
3 He will be a just ruler and a fair judge.
4 His ummat will be the Khalifa (deputies) of Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam).
5 He will act himself and instruct others on the Qur'an and Hadith (Shariat/Tradition of Islam).
6 He will lead people in Salaat (Prayer).
7 He will stay on earth for a period of 40 years after descending. The will be the best era of the Ummat after the first era of Islam.
8 Allah will protect his companions from Jahannam.
9 Those who will save the Deen of Islam by associating themselves with Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will be amongst the most loved by Allah Ta'ala.
10 During this period all other religions and mazhabs besides Islam will perish, hence there will be no kuffaars (non-believers) in the world.
11 Jihad will be stopped.
12 No Khiraaj will be taken.
13 Nor Jizya (protection tax) money from the kafirs (non-believers)
14 Wealth and property will be in surplus to such an extent that there will be no one to accept the wealth of the other (everyone will be independent).
15 Receiving Zakaat (Alms-giving, Charity to poor) and Saadaqa will be discarded (as there will be no poor to receive them!).
16 The people will love the sajda (prostration to God) more than the world and what it consists of.
17 All types of Deeni (religious) and worldly blessings will descend on earth (many halaal (lawful) things will be created).
18 There will be peace, harmony and tranquility during the time of Hadhrat Isa (A.S.)'s stay in the world.
19 There will be no animosity for a period of seven years, even between two persons.
20 All hearts will be free from miserliness, envy, hatred, malice and jealousy.
21 For a period of forty years no one will fall ill or die.
22 Venom will be taken out of all venomous animals.
23 Snakes and scorpions will not harm anyone to the extent that if a child put his hand in its mouth, he will not be harmed.
24 Will animals will not harm anyone.
25 If a man will pass a lion, he will not be troubled or harmed, or even if any girl will open its mouth to test if it will do anything.
26 The camels will graze among lions, cheetahs with cattle and the jackals with goats.
27 The fertility of the land will increase to such an extent that even if a seed is planted in a hard rock, it will sprout.
28 A pomegranate will be so huge that a jamaat will be able to eat it and the people will use its peel as shade.
29 There will be so much barakaat (blessing) in milk that a camel will suffice for a huge jamaat, a cow for a tribe and a goat for a family.
30 In short, life will be most pleasant after the descension of Jesus (A.S.).
His Marriage, Death and Deputies
After his descension on earth, Hadhrat Isa (A.S.) will marry. He will have children, and he will remain on earth 19 years after marriage. He will pass away and Muslims will perform his Janaza Salaat and bury him net to Rasulullah (Sallallahu Alayhi Wasallam). (Tirmidhi)
from: Hadhrat Esa (Alaihis Salaam): The Truth Revealed
and Major Signs of Qiyamat by Mufti Afzal Hoosein Elias (May Allah reward him for his work in producing these kitaabs, aameen.)
from the original (with references): "Aalalaat-e-Qiyyamat aur Nuzul-e-Eesa."
Louri Zoutan |
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Ronnie
USA
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Posted - Sunday, September 21, 2003 - 8:04 AM
Salam,
Isn't it a bit strange that the article bases its enitre foundation on Ahadith and the Bible? Where are the Qur'anic verses that support such a monumental event? |
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aslam
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Tuesday, September 23, 2003 - 5:15 PM
Salams,
[quote]
"But what about the legion of reports scattered through the works of Muslim history? How do you explain that?"
I think that Messianic ideas,interaction of Muslims with Christians and followers of other faiths and political upheavals prevalent in the first centuries of Islam helped in the making up of legion of reports scattered through the Muslim History. |
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Jhangeer Hanif
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 7:18 PM
Speacking to a Muslim Scholar on the topic in discussion, I was given some vital information on the topic--perhaps a new perspective on the advent of Jesus (pbuh). He told me that the Bible also talks about the second coming of Jesus (pbuh) and the Holy Qur'an has not negated this like it rebutted the claims of Trinity and the crucifixion. This shows that the Holy Qur'an has tacitly endorsed the second advent of Jesus (pbuh). If it were against the divine principles and scheme,the Holy Qur'an would have talked about it.
He further elightened me that the second advent of Jesus (pbuh) will have nothing to do with the Muslims. It means that the Muslims would not be required to profess faith in him. He would come to break the cross--an act which is especially between him and the Christians. Other matters reported in narratives about him also have nothing to do with the Muslims. If I remember accurately; he also told me that according to some reports, he would ask that native Muslims should not offer his Namaz Janazah. Since the Muslims would not be required to profess faith in him, their divine code--the Holy Qur'an--is devoid of any mention of his second coming. |
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zest
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, January 10, 2004 - 8:30 PM
| - - - - - - -that the Bible also talks about the second coming of Jesus (pbuh) and the Holy Qur'an has not negated this like it rebutted the claims of Trinity and the crucifixion. This shows that the Holy Qur'an has tacitly endorsed the second advent of Jesus (pbuh). If it were against the divine principles and scheme,the Holy Qur'an would have talked about it.
Will it be possible for your to make sure whether the bible with the Nasaraa (the christians the Qur'an speaks of) contained any such things as the second coming of jesus? Is this fellow sure of the fact that the bible as we have it today also confirms the belief beyond any doubt?
Another important thing is that the same kind of reasoning can be forwarded to prove the otherwise. There are many places in the Holy Qur'an where the situation demands the second coming of Jesus be spoken of. But it didn't. Where do i satand? |
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aslam
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Sunday, January 11, 2004 - 5:42 PM
Salams,
Jahangir Haneef sahib has raised good point but we,re not sure whether the allusion to the advent of Christ(pbuh) is later addition or not? |
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Ronnie
USA
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Posted - Monday, January 12, 2004 - 12:02 PM
Salam All,
Indeed it is quite an interesting point to say the least. Let me say that I've read the verses of the Bible that puport the Second Coming of Christ and really I think they are implicit and not explicit in nature. What I'm trying to find out now is whether this doctrine of Second Advent was developed at a later date as was the Trinity, God-ship of Jesus etc... This would answer a lot.
Mr. Hanif writes:
He told me that the Bible also talks about the second coming of Jesus (pbuh) and the Holy Qur'an has not negated this like it rebutted the claims of Trinity and the crucifixion.
First, I would appreciate the verses be cited. Regarding why the Qur'an has not rebutted the claims of the Second Coming, I would have to say that I find them a bit hard to buy. We don't know for sure what the beliefs were. We don't know if this belief had/has any great consequence that the Qur'an would have negated. In other words, is this belief detrimental to the entirety of the Message of God? Was this even a priority to tackle? We can only conjecture as to why the Qur'an has not spoken on this issue, positively or negatively. Because the Qur'an does not negate something, does that make the belief valid? God sent His Message to mankind, that is what we are supposed to believe. In other words we have been given the doctrine to follow anything outside of this doctrine isn't really part of the Message of God. Correct?
Let me add that the two concepts are grave matters to the very foundation of Islam:
1. Trinity = Shirk. Co-deifying others with God.
2. Crucifixion = Shirk. Because through this act salvation is achieved. In other words a man, through his flesh saves the world rather than God's mercy or justice. So the powers of salvation are transferred to sacrifice rather than belonging to God.
3. Second Coming = (fill in the blanks and explain the harm)
Mr. Hanif writes:
This shows that the Holy Qur'an has tacitly endorsed the second advent of Jesus (pbuh). If it were against the divine principles and scheme,the Holy Qur'an would have talked about it.
I respectfully disagree. Because I don't say "no" to something does that mean I approve of it? I think that's a bit of a stretch. If there were such an endorsement, the Qur'an may have inconspicuously alluded to it. Instead it is completely silent regarding the issue. Is that approval? Also, please explain how the return of Jesus would be "against the divine principles and scheme?"
Mr. Hanif writes:
He further elightened me that the second advent of Jesus (pbuh) will have nothing to do with the Muslims. It means that the Muslims would not be required to profess faith in him.
If it has nothing to do with Muslims then it has nothing to do with God's message, right? Why is it incumbant upon us to believe in the first Jesus but not his second appearance? If he returns to rectify the corrupted message of Christians then surely he'd be reinforcing the message of Islam to them. How could that have nothing to do with Muslims? How could we not profess faith in such a man who is a Prophet of God?
Both Zest and Aslam raise some very good points, that I hope will be discussed.
It seems to me that this concept is attempting gel in with the ahadith we have regarding this issue. However, to me, so far it does not harmonize with the ahadith nor the Qur'an.
I look forward to comments.
Wassalam
Edited by - ronnie on January 12 2004 12:12:58 |
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zest
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Monday, January 12, 2004 - 12:13 PM
11 Jihad will be stopped.
12 No Khiraaj will be taken.
13 Nor Jizya (protection tax) money from the kafirs (non-believers)
14 Wealth and property will be in surplus to such an extent that there will be no one to accept the wealth of the other (everyone will be independent).
15 Receiving Zakaat (Alms-giving, Charity to poor) and Saadaqa will be discarded (as there will be no poor to receive them!).
That leaves an impression that the Qur'anic directives will be repealed by him- a thing that the Prophet Muhammad (sws) could not do. And yer others Hadith narratives tell us he will not lead Muslims in prayer. Those who have concocted these narratives or mispresented them could not see what they are spreading is contradictory. There is only the one way to avoid all this puzzle- the Holy Qur'an. Stick to the Holy Qur'an and you will be saved from falling into error. May God help us. |
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Angelo
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 4:24 PM
quote:
It amazes me that God would include in His book for us not to eat pork, yet something so grand, in my opinion, as the return of Christ is totally unspoken of. As a matter of fact there's no foundation, not even a hint at such an occurance. Yet, Muslims hold on to that belief just as strongly as Christians hold on their belief of salvation through Christ. Actually, I think that Muslims tend to put even more emphasis on the return of Jesus than Christians do.
Edited by - ronnie on September 18 2003 18:57:24
asalaamu Alaikum to all muslime here,
I am a newbie and this is gonna be my first n last post INSHA ALLAH, as I am ot here to discuss anything but to reffer you all to a book I FEEL worth taking a look at.....especially for Mr.Ronnie n Miss Aayesh........the name of the book is "Return of Jesus" by none other than Mr.Harun Yahya, if you have been fortunate ENOUGH to watch his even one program about science and ISlam and how ALLAH has blessed us with a religion like Islam...then you sure would find it a blessing that ALLAH has sent us with scholars who can argue on LOGICS very well.
I may not say anything about the book as it will TELL u the answer to ur questions very well INSHA ALLAH :) and for you Aayesha how can you THINK to support an issue you claim u have made NO RESEARCH on ? come on fellas we are here in this world to THINK n FIND the facts, aint it ? so go n get some rsearch done baita.
Mr.Ronnie I wonder which religion you are a followr of, but if u are a muslim then how do u offer ur prayers ? did Quran tell you HOW TO ? or u were informed by the Hadeeth collected and complied by some late scholars ? that was actually TOLD n TAUGHT by Muhammad pbuh ? THINK again !
Well, at the end I would request you not to post me ANY message as I am out of this site forever after a few clicks of sending this post, oh yes u may visit our forums at Pakfellows.com....the reason my being stepping out is actually my busy schedule....so dun worry if I am running after this first post or something.....but PLZ go to this site by Harun Yahya and READ the book n COME BACK again with VALID LOGICS.
Take cares all and ALLAH HAFIZ :) |
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Ronnie
USA
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Posted - Tuesday, January 13, 2004 - 8:14 PM
Hello Angelo,
It would have been nice if you hung around and showed us the error in our ways but I guess you're not going to. You're a post-n-run type of guy...a bit unfair don't you think? Nevertheless, I'll continue with or without you since you did address me personally.
I know of the book Harun Yahya has written, however, I never read it so I can't really much about that. However, I can say something about the man himself. Harun Yahya (real name: Adnan Oktar) is not a scholar. He's not a scientist. He's not in the medical field. He's not in the field of history. He's not in any religious field. To my knowledge he has a B.A. (Bacholor's Degree) in Fine Arts. Yet amazingly people will quote him as an authority on an array of subjects. Anything from religion, science, history, politics, Islam etc... Unfortunately, he's not an authority but many Muslims have placed him on a pedstal. Keep in mind I have nothing against the brother, I think he's doing what he can to try to help. The problem is he has nothing in the way of qualifications to support him. Is he a thinker? Maybe. But that's far from being an expert at a subject or another. By the way, most of Harun Yahya's material seems to be quite similar to a Christian "Intelligent Design Movement" that deals with refuting science they think goes against God's existence. Ever heard of them? You may want to look them up and see how much of Mr. Yahya's material overlaps there's. Oh, just to mention an important thing, they are established and respected in the science field.
You write:
may not say anything about the book as it will TELL u the answer to ur questions very well
Let me ask you, have you even read the book? You could've easily educated us by bringing some points and we could have a fruitful discussion and maybe even got us thinking you and Harun Yahya are correct.
You write:
come on fellas we are here in this world to THINK n FIND the facts, aint it ? so go n get some rsearch done baita.
Yes we are to think. However, if you want to find facts I suggest you look in more than just one place. And regarding this topic specifically then you might want to first look in the most obvious place...the Qur'an.
You write:
Mr.Ronnie I wonder which religion you are a followr of,
Let's see...because I have an idea contrary to yours you question if I'm Muslim. That's really brash of you. Can't we have a difference of opinion without one questioning the other's faith? You have fallen in the ole' divide-the-Muslims-trap as is so typical of our people. Before you start questioning other people's faiths, check yourself.
You write:
but if u are a muslim then how do u offer ur prayers ? did Quran tell you HOW TO ? or u were informed by the Hadeeth collected and complied by some late scholars ? that was actually TOLD n TAUGHT by Muhammad pbuh ? THINK again !
Well, if you must really know. I pray 5 times a day, alhamdulilah, just like all Muslims do worldwide. The Qur'an tells me to pray but it doesn't specify how to perform the prayer, that's why we have the Sunnah of the Prophet(P). I don't know what you are talking about Hadiths "collected" by later scholars, so I won't comment. I hope I've satisfied your questions.
If you come back maybe we'll learn something from one another.
Regards
Edited by - ronnie on January 13 2004 20:22:02 |
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