| Author | Topic |
Nauman
PAKISTAN
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 Topic initiated on Saturday, November 12, 2005 - 9:51 AM 
Assassination
As-Salaamu Alaikum.
Does Islam allows the assassination of the president of the oppressing nation without incurring any sin? |
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oosman
USA
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Posted - Sunday, November 13, 2005 - 11:38 AM 
| what kind of a sick and disgusting question is this? |
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Nauman
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Monday, November 14, 2005 - 9:12 AM
As-Salaamu Alaikum Oosman,
First, thanks for the post. Second, obviously this is not the answer of the question.
>> what kind of a sick and disgusting question is this?
There are a lot of questions involving intimacy and privacy those people ask; you know there is no limit to this. So would that be sickening and disgusting too?
Coming back to my question. What if the oppressed nation believes that killing the president would bring about a change in their present condition! |
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Truth
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Monday, November 14, 2005 - 3:04 PM
Salaam,
I say YES. My YES is mostly based on BRING ABOUT A CHANGE IN THEIR PRESENT CONDITION. |
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Nauman
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Monday, November 14, 2005 - 4:50 PM
As-Salaamu Alaikum Truth,
Me too. I just wanted to know the opposite viewpoint in this regard. I believe there is non. |
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perv1
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Monday, November 14, 2005 - 6:56 PM
I say YES. My YES is mostly based on BRING ABOUT A CHANGE IN THEIR PRESENT CONDITION.
elaborate please. |
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oosman
USA
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Posted - Monday, November 14, 2005 - 7:05 PM
Actually (probably) no, I do not agree with this.
The current examples in our times are too vivid. If the ruler is removed by force, there is going to be choas in the land and civil war. That is worse than a bad ruler. As you can see in Iraq, Saddam Hussain, a bad tyrant ruler, was removed, but there was no improvement in the people's lives. Infact it got worse. There are simply too many examples in modern history all over the world where death of the ruler has spelt disaster for the common people. Somalia lost its leader in the early 90's, they are still fighting amongs each other and there is no rule of law. Latin America, Africa are especially full of countries with such examples.
Also read these stories I found in Sahih Bukhari:
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 203:
Narrated Ibn 'Umar:
The 'Prophet said, "It is obligatory for one to listen to and obey (the ruler's orders) unless these orders involve one disobedience (to Allah); but if an act of disobedience (to Allah) is imposed, he should not listen to or obey it."
Volume 9, Book 88, Number 176:
Narrated Ibn Abbas:
The Prophet said, "Whoever disapproves of something done by his ruler then he should be patient, for whoever disobeys the ruler even a little (little = a span) will die as those who died in the Pre-lslamic Period of Ignorance. (i.e. as rebellious Sinners).
Volume 9, Book 88, Number 178:
Narrated Junada bin Abi Umaiya:
We entered upon 'Ubada bin As-Samit while he was sick. We said, "May Allah make you healthy. Will you tell us a Hadith you heard from the Prophet and by which Allah may make you benefit?" He said, "The Prophet called us and we gave him the Pledge of allegiance for Islam, and among the conditions on which he took the Pledge from us, was that we were to listen and obey (the orders) both at the time when we were active and at the time when we were tired, and at our difficult time and at our ease and to be obedient to the ruler and give him his right even if he did not give us our right, and not to fight against him unless we noticed him having open Kufr (disbelief) for which we would have a proof with us from Allah."
Volume 9, Book 88, Number 206:
Narrated Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman:
The people used to ask Allah's Apostle about the good but I used to ask him about the evil lest I should be overtaken by them. So I said, "O Allah's Apostle! We were living in ignorance and in an (extremely) worst atmosphere, then Allah brought to us this good (i.e., Islam); will there be any evil after this good?" He said, "Yes." I said, 'Will there be any good after that evil?" He replied, "Yes, but it will be tainted (not pure.)'' I asked, "What will be its taint?" He replied, "(There will be) some people who will guide others not according to my tradition? You will approve of some of their deeds and disapprove of some others." I asked, "Will there be any evil after that good?" He replied, "Yes, (there will be) some people calling at the gates of the (Hell) Fire, and whoever will respond to their call, will be thrown by them into the (Hell) Fire." I said, "O Allah s Apostle! Will you describe them to us?" He said, "They will be from our own people and will speak our language." I said, "What do you order me to do if such a state should take place in my life?" He said, "Stick to the group of Muslims and their Imam (ruler)." I said, "If there is neither a group of Muslims nor an Imam (ruler)?" He said, "Then turn away from all those sects even if you were to bite (eat) the roots of a tree till death overtakes you while you are in that state."
Volume 9, Book 89, Number 258:
Narrated 'Abdullah:
The Prophet said, "A Muslim has to listen to and obey (the order of his ruler) whether he likes it or not, as long as his orders involve not one in disobedience (to Allah), but if an act of disobedience (to Allah) is imposed one should not listen to it or obey it. (See Hadith No. 203, Vol. 4)
Volume 9, Book 89, Number 257:
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas:
The Prophet said, "If somebody sees his Muslim ruler doing something he disapproves of, he should be patient, for whoever becomes separate from the Muslim group even for a span and then dies, he will die as those who died in the Pre-lslamic period of ignorance (as rebellious sinners). (See Hadith No. 176 and 177) |
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sobi_05
USA
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Posted - Monday, November 14, 2005 - 10:21 PM
I wanted to stay away from this discussion but the post of brother Nauman in which he said that there is no opposite viewpoint, i wanted to record mine.
No, islam does not allow killings, assassinations. The president of oppressed nation should bring to court and face the allegations and have means to defend himself/herself.
And i apologize for i cannot present any supporting verses or hadith. But this is my view according to my understanding of islam. |
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ibrahim
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 6:27 AM
Wa Alaikum us Salaam
well Br Oosman & Sis Sobi r right as No Muslim has the Right to KILL anyone of his own EVEN a Murderer in QISAS. It's the responsibility of the Govt to Catch him & then Kill him after All proofs.
If we're NOT allowed to TAKE our OWN life then HOW One can DARE to take the Life of anyone Else? |
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Nauman
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 10:11 AM
As-Salaamu Alaikum All,
I thank you all for your posts. After reading your responses now I am sure that I am misunderstood. See what I asked for. I combine the both questions. Draw the conclusion yourself.
Does Islam allows the assassination of the president of the oppressing nation without incurring any sin? What if the oppressed nation believes that killing the president would bring about a change in their present condition!
I think if you note that the President here is the President of the Oppressing nation not of Oppressed nation itself.
Let me emphasize here that I used the word “Nation” not Government, Establishment or even a State to confuse the matter. Nation includes both People and Government.
Edited by: nauman on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 1:37 PM |
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student1
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 10:37 AM
quote:
As-Salaamu Alaikum Oosman,
First, thanks for the post. Second, obviously this is not the answer of the question.
>> what kind of a sick and disgusting question is this?
There are a lot of questions involving intimacy and privacy those people ask; you know there is no limit to this. So would that be sickening and disgusting too?
Coming back to my question. What if the oppressed nation believes that killing the president would bring about a change in their present condition!
Asalam Aalaikum,
Atleast those questions about intimacy and privacy deals with a persons personal problems and doesnot attack the interest of any individual.
How can you be so sure brother that by killing the president,positive changes will take place in the country?
Regards, |
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Nauman
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 1:32 PM
As-Salaamu Alaikum Student1.
Usually when the hostility spreads to the oppressor’s land because of the direct consequences of the mission they have taken; the state usually make a decision to rethink about what they are engaged in. |
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oosman
USA
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Posted - Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 2:03 PM
You said: Does Islam allows the assassination of the president of the oppressing nation without incurring any sin?
Why don't you look at what the prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.) did? His nation was oppressed by tyrant rulers in Mecca. Did he assinate the Quraish leaders, did he assinate Abu Lahb? I think the answer is very clear.
I hope this will end this sik discussion. |
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Nauman
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 2:22 PM
As-Salaamu Alaikum Mr. Oosman,
>> Why don't you look at what the prophet Muhammad (s.a.w.) did? His nation was oppressed by tyrant rulers in Mecca. Did he assinate the Quraish leaders, did he assinate Abu Lahb? I think the answer is very clear……. I hope this will end this sik discussion.
Sorry to say but I think you are taking it very personal. I do not know why. It is just a question like any other. Of course you are not obliged to answer it. Anyway, what I get from your response is that it is a sin. Thanks for your point of view.
Let me say here that the assassination is not about taking revenge or it is someone’s personal agenda. It is a political decision. I also believe that the killing of Quraish leaders or Abu Lahb would not bring any good. The assumption of killing is totally based on bringing the good to the whole nation.
As I said in my last post above: “Usually when the hostility spreads to the oppressor’s land because of the direct consequences of the mission they have taken; the state usually make a decision to rethink about what they are engaged in.” |
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oosman
USA
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Posted - Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 3:31 PM
walaikum salaam Mr Nauman,
First of all how can you explain doing something good that is based on something bad. Killing someone is bad in this manner, and I fail to see how in the world any good can come out of this. Only civil war, chaos and anarchy will come out of this. The world is full of countries that tried your approach and failed. That is why history is so important.
so what do you think of the hadith I mentioned? |
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Roswell
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 3:41 PM
Salaam All,
Sorry for intrusion. I just wanted to share my views on the issue.
Nauman, what are you asking is basically a clear mutiny against the state and sort of anarchy in the land, no matter how good the after effects are. this is the matter of one's allegiance to the country. The Prophet(pbuh) condemn such situation of anarchy and mutiny against any Govt. You should have got sorta idea from Osman's posts. However, for your interest, I'd like to link you to my article which discussed it.
Trust that helps.
Regards,
Edited by: roswell on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 3:45 PM |
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