There seems to be some problem with the original thread on Hijab as it does not allow posts more than the three pages. This problem has been notified to the admn department and hopefully will be fixed soon. Please post your questions/comments regarding this thread here.

I have been sent a question via email because of the problem mentioned above. Lets see what you people have to say about this:

AA,

I have been trying to post a response on the studying-islam.org forum on Hijab. However, my response does not get posted immediately after your post (3rd page) but rather on the first page of that forum, which is quite odd.

Anyways following is my post.

I would very much like if you could post Ghamidi's detailed argument on the head-covering. As well any interesting conversation the two (Razi) of you might possibly have with him.

Also, I have two questions.

1) Is it required for women to cover their head during prayer?

My point is men are not required to cover their head normally as well as during prayers. I hope you see where I am going with this.

2) Does the head for a woman come under the sutra/satar (??)

Many thanks,

Junaid.

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I would very much like if you could post Ghamidi's detailed argument on the head-covering. As well any interesting conversation the two (Razi) of you might possibly have with him.

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What Ghamidi Sahib has written in his Kanoon-e-Mua'asharat (The Social Law of Islam) is mostly based on an approach of positive presentation, that is, without pointing out each and every error in the viewpoints of others. He though has explained his stance in detail by comparing it with others' in the lectures he delivered on this topic. I have reason to believe that these lectures must have been recorded and available. You may write to Mr Sami Mufti for details thereof: sami_mufti@hotmail.com

About me and Razi meeting Javed Sahib, I think it depends on him and not me. In his previous post he has said that he will not.

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Also, I have two questions.

1) Is it required for women to cover their head during prayer?

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This is what the whole discussion was all about. I'd suggest that you please go through the thread and find out what is right and what wrong. I hope that the hotchpotch nature of the FORM does not prevent you to construe the SUBSTANCE. What we have discussed is whether Muslim ladies in general are required to cover their heads, which in turn will affect the standing your questions in particular. Razi says: Yes they are. I say they are not obligated to cover their heads yet it is desirable since this practice complies with their innate concept of Haya (modesty). We need to appreciate that the directives of the Shari'ah are not beyond the realm of one's innate guidance. Shari'ah has given the status of Law to the decrees which otherwise are testified to by our ituition and common sense. In other words, divine interference has raised the decrees of our innate guidance and common sense to the level of legal injunctions. Therefore morality still remains the building block of our religious disposition. What is not included in divine decrees is not sufficient evidence that it falls short of the purview of morality.

2) Does the head for a woman come under the sutra/satar (??)

What do you imply by Satar? If you mean whether woman should cover their heads while in interation with men, then this has already responded been to.

As a term of islamic Fiqh the word Satar (arabic Aurah) connotes parts of the body that you are not supposed to reveal even before parents and children etc. However, women can reveal their aurah before other women of acquaintance when necessary. This exceptoin can be extended to men for example a doctor may examine her patient.

On the basis of the above explanation we can say that head does not include in the Aurah of women.

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For a woman the head is not included in the awrah (Tariq Hashmi). Also, when alone a woman can pray without the head cover (Shehzad Saleem). By extension of this logic, a group of women can pray without head covering (in absence of men so far). This much has been established.

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What I feel is that you are generalising the opinions of the two persons quoted above. You better confirm whether Tariq and Shehzad Sahib believe that it falls within the purview of etiquette and manners for women to pray without head covering under normal circumstnaces.

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Further question (for extension purposes): Is a woman required to cover the head during Hajj?

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You seem to imply by 'required' obligation. They are not obligated by the Law yet they should cover their heads.

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If No, then generation after generation and across various cultures women have covered their heads while in Hajj. Is it not then like mutawatirah?

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Yes. It is a tradition which has perpetuated through generations after generations. But perpetuation does not make everything obligatory. Does it?

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Can we use the words 'should cover their heads' despite absence of obligation?

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Yes, we can; if we are clear about the fact that the basis of this act is in the concept of Haya (modesty).

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If women can roam the streets without the head covering (where impure intentions abound in greater probability) technically in absence of obligation, then they most surely can while in prayer (certainly when alone or in presence of other women).

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Your question is about 'can'; my response therefore is 'yes'; they can offer the prayer without head covering. It is just like one man asks me whether his obligtory prayer be considered offered without wearing Kameez or Shirts; I will definitely say, yes. But I will also to explain him that it is not the right way to offer the prayer.

It is like asking that it is not obligatory to take medicines when we fall ill. Then, should we not give up medicines for atleast once when we fall terribly ill so as to eradicate the possibility of our action being considered as obligatory. What would you say in this regard?

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In this regard, I am reminded of the Prophet's decision on not continuing with the Taravih prayer despite it being recommended.

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First thing to note here is that the status of the Prophet (pbuh) is different from that of ours. Second, the example of Taraweeh is not appropriate here since it was an act that was analagous to the canonical prayer. Therefore Taraweeh could be entered into the cricle of five prayers if offered consistently in communinion with other Muslims. In other words, the Prophet (pbuh) did not prohibit the prayer itself; he only abstained from creating the resemblance with one obligatory action.

What you see in this particular instance of head covering, I see it at an enormous scale, which bewilders me and worries me a lot. Our ideals have changed, life style, attitude, behaviour and everything...Saying 'see you' or 'okay' when people part instead of saying 'Khuda Hafiz' or 'Assalama Alaykum' is apparently a minor change of practice, but, to me, it is indicative of a major malady ailing the Muslims. This shows but sad consequences of our civilization clashing with a civilization, which was nourished and nurtured on a non-religious basis.

The reason that women feel comfortable without head covering is that a tremendous change has come to take place in the collective Archetypes of the Muslims.

You are right in saying that going outside without shirts is still unconventional. This is why men do not dare go outside without shirts. Believe you me, if you ask any scholar, he will tell you that wearing a shirt for men is not obligatory. Why then men do not do away with this practice? And why the temptation to do away with head covering is greater on the part of women?

Hmm. I did not try to quantify the deviation nor did I try to show that problem is at the end of women and not men.

The truth is that a decadent society devours what is low and vomits up what is valuable. Anyhow, this dicussion is taking a turn toward people and therefore may seem discriminatory. I'd suggest that we should go back to ideas here again.