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ayesha

PAKISTAN
Topic initiated on Friday, February 6, 2004  -  3:11 PM Reply with quote
Perish


<font face='Tahoma'>A little something that I have been thinking about lately...</font id='Tahoma'>

<font face='Tahoma'><b>"YUSUFALI: All that is on earth will perish: But will abide (for ever) the Face of thy Lord,- full of Majesty, Bounty and Honour." </b> 055.026-27</font id='Tahoma'>

<font face='Tahoma'>What about the soul of man? Does it perish? We know from the Quran that in the Hereafter some will abide 'forever' in hell and some in heaven.</font id='Tahoma'>

<font face='Tahoma'>Regards.</font id='Tahoma'>
Jhangeer Hanif

PAKISTAN
Posted - Friday, February 6, 2004  -  4:08 PM Reply with quote

The verse is not talking about the soul of a person; it talks about the worldly things, which we behold in awe on this earth. The preceeding verses allude to many manifestations of God's providence and wisdom; these exhort men that they should not be deluded away by the illusive notion that this entire magnificent set up has come into being all by itself; everything on the face of earth bears testimony to the undeniable fact that God Almighty created them. The implication of this verse seems to me: Look how magnificent this all is! It was meant to disclose higher realities of life to you! But, alas, you are obsessed with it when this is not going to last; it will all perish and you will be brought to account. How ignorant man is!


Going a little ahead, we find that the Holy Qur'an is talking about the Day of Judgment and it is saying that the deceived and the arrogant will be known by their marks, and will he taken by the forelocks and put into the frightening pit of hellfire.

In summary, the verse is taking about the destruction that is bound to take place before the Day of Judgment; when everything will be annihilated save the Lord--the Creator and the Cherisher. Then man will be resurrected to account.

ayesha

PAKISTAN
Posted - Friday, February 6, 2004  -  4:44 PM Reply with quote
To me it seems that the verse is refering to 'all' that is on earth whether man or otherwise unless the arabic word connotes something else. Especially given the fact that the verse mentions 'all' and 'but' clearly implies that 'all' is mentioned in relation to God that should essentially include man.

Edited by - ayesha on February 06 2004 18:02:27
Jhangeer Hanif

PAKISTAN
Posted - Friday, February 6, 2004  -  6:47 PM Reply with quote

No. I do not think that 'all' connotes something else . You are right in what you are saying. But do you see any connection between death [or destruction or annihilation] and Resurrection? What is it that preceeds Resurrection?

ayesha

PAKISTAN
Posted - Friday, February 6, 2004  -  11:02 PM Reply with quote
Which is why I mentioned 'soul' that does not exactly perish but is taken away.
Jhangeer Hanif

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, February 7, 2004  -  11:22 AM Reply with quote

Soul is taken away; it does not perish. The Holy Qur'an tells us that souls are stationed in a place which may be called Barzakh and where they will remain till the Day of Reckoning. This is why I said that the verse, in its context, talking about the worldly things which include man; each and every man is to taste death and everything else will also be destroyed. Then man will be resurrected to account for his deeds.

However, we also need to appreciate that soul , in its essence, is also mortal. It is not that soul perpetuate on its own. It is only the divine scheme that has allowed soul to perpetuate. Hence, it is Allah alone who was, is and will be on His own. There is none like Him!

ayesha

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, February 7, 2004  -  12:08 PM Reply with quote
This sounds like a better explanation. Soul, like all other creation, has the potential to perish if God so wills. Whether it perishes or not is solely God's decree.

Edited by - ayesha on February 07 2004 12:09:04
zest

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, February 7, 2004  -  1:40 PM Reply with quote
Keeping in view the valuable explanation the verse should be explaind somewhat like this:

All that is on earth will perish (except for what is not decreed to be destroyed-namely soul which will be taken away): But will abide (for ever) the Face of thy Lord,- full of Majesty, Bounty and Honour." 055.026-27

You want to say man is included in 'all on earth' and his soul is excluded because God does not want to destroy it. But were there no other words to communicate this phenomenon?
I think we need to think a little more. It does not fit in simple minds.

I would suggest please reconsider the word 'all'.
zest

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, February 7, 2004  -  1:54 PM Reply with quote
also please see the following verse:
And call not with Allah any other god; there is no god but He, every thing is perishable (Haalik) but He; His is the judgment, and to Him you shall be brought back. (28:88)
I wonder if the word "Faan" and "Haalik" could hold key to understanding the apparnet difficulty.
ayesha

PAKISTAN
Posted - Sunday, February 8, 2004  -  9:09 PM Reply with quote
You got me thinking zest...

The problem is I am illiterate as far as Arabic is concerned.

What does the verse mean to you?

Regards.
Jhangeer Hanif

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, February 9, 2004  -  11:29 AM Reply with quote

Lets see what the verse mean to you, Mr. Zest.

You however have commented:

You want to say man is included in 'all on earth' and his soul is excluded because God does not want to destroy it. But were there no other words to communicate this phenomenon?

No. I do not want to say that man is included and soul is excluded. What I said is that the purport of the verse is related to the earthly things; what is on earth shall be destroyed. Does Soul seem earthly to you?

Isn't this verse the same as the Holy Qur'an says: Every Nafs is to taste death. We see no implication of destruction of soul in this verse nor do we see at other places in the Holy Qur'an, where there is a saying goes like O man you shall die and then brought back to me.

The fact remains that soul cannot perpetuate on its own. But it is also true that the soul is beyond the purport of this verse.

student

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, February 9, 2004  -  1:07 PM Reply with quote
"YUSUFALI: All that is on earth will perish: But will abide (for ever) the Face of thy Lord,- full of Majesty, Bounty and Honour." 055.026-27

What about the soul of man? Does it perish? We know from the Quran that in the Hereafter some will abide 'forever' in hell and some in heaven.
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God was eternal since time immemorial and He is etenal and will ever remain eternal and immortal whereas man was not eternal but will perpetuate through his Ruh and that of God's scheme.So i think Ruh will not perish rather it will be transfered to somewhere, the knowledge of which has not been given. After Burzukh the actual abode of Ruh will be Jannah or Jahannum and it depends. Each and every thing made of some material will surely perish and Ruh has not been made of some material.The knowledge of its ingredients has also not been given to man.However man is a combination of body and soul. Body will perish whereas Ruh will not rather will be shifted to its next destination and its ultimate destination is Jannah or ?
Jhangeer Hanif

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, February 9, 2004  -  7:24 PM Reply with quote
Nice comments! from the Student.

There is however one contradiction in your statement.

You first say:

Ruh has not been made of some material.

This sentence is negating the possibility that soul has been made of some material--an assertion, though negative, which needs solid grounds.

Then you yourself acknowledge:

The knowledge of its ingredients has also not been given to man.

How can we pass a negative or postive verdict as regards the soul when we have not been given knowledge of its ingredients? Hope you would reconcile these two statements of yours.

student

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, February 10, 2004  -  12:53 PM Reply with quote
Perhaps my statement lacks precision.When I say that Ruh is not made of any material. It just means that it is not made of any kind of that material which we can perceive with our five senses.That is why i say that the knowlege of its ingredients has not been given to us.Abstract things though not perceiveable yet possess some entity and can only be perceived with fine senses the same is true i think for Ruh.
ihsan

USA
Posted - Thursday, February 12, 2004  -  12:39 AM Reply with quote
I would rather take the statement in a literary sense, a point of emphasis, similar to "We have left nothing out of this Book." This nothing, obviously does not entail the nature of atoms. As respected Jhangeer Hanif said, from a contextual point of view it is referring to the upheavels and destruction that would take place prior to the Judgement. Issues about the nature of the soul are not the place for this verse.

Further, in my opinion, the Quran does not refer to a complete annihalation of everything that exists, but a destruction that ushers in a 'transformation'. Doesn't Surah Ibraheem, also say the seven heavens and earth will be transformed into another seven heavens and earth?
So from my opinion, jannah and jahannum do not yet exist, but will be created from what remains.

But besides that, I have read a very interesting insight to the verse preceding the mentioning of the upheavels to take place. God Almighty refers to the nature of the ship, how it moves across the water, while raised high like mountains. This scene of a ship in literature often symbolizes a departure, "he sailed off into the sunset". It is a fitting imagery that brings into context the statement 'every will perish', leading into the journey men will make to the next world..




Al-Mawrid Course
ayesha

PAKISTAN
Posted - Thursday, February 12, 2004  -  4:59 PM Reply with quote
That was very insightful Ihsan. Thanks. The analogies explain what I could not understand quite beautifully.

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