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aboosait
INDIA
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 Posted - Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 5:20 PM 
quote:
from what i can gather you dont belive in the hadiths .
Dear sister sahira,
Assalamu Alaikum
If I am not mistaken you have come to this conclusion because:
You consider everything that is ascribed to the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam, even when these statements contradict reason, evidence and the Qur'an’ to be ‘HADEETH’
And because you are unaware of (or deliberately ignore) the fact that enemies of Islam have written lies in abundance in the name of Hadeeth. |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 5:27 PM
quote:
start with a descent arguement where you have proof to back your accusations
Dear sister sahira,
Assalamu Alaikum
You don’t seem to be convinced with the images which support the following statement made by perv1 (UNITED KINGDOM) “Unfortunately vast majority of muslims (in the indian subcontinent at least) have gone so far that, never mind the prophets, they subscribe huge divine powers to hunderds if not thousands of so called peers (saints)that they are hardly going to accept what the Quran may say about the prophet(s).” |
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perv1
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 5:58 PM
Salaam saihra
quote:
the quran tells us the Prophet is a mere mortal yes we agree but your telling me the rest of us can be compared to someone so pious, yes he PBUH was human....but no other man can be compared to to him and never will,when it comes to practicing islam
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I am trying to understand what your point is here. You at least accept the Quran and admit that the prophet was a mortal. How the fact that he was man of excellent character validate hadith, an anti islamic writing as you are likely to encounter, which have continuously damaged Islam for the last 1200 years.
regards |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 6:22 PM
quote:
salaam sahira.
..........First of all, judging by what is revealed can only happen with the Qur’an. As the Hadith is not revealed, there is no circumstance under which we may judge from it. If Allah says to judge by Hadith (by implication or whatever) then this would contradict with the command to judge by what has been revealed. To continue…...
ANYONE WHO REJECTS THE SUNNAH OF THE PROPHET, PEACE BE UPON HIM, DOES NOT BELIEVE IN THE QUR'ÂN, for Almighty Allah Himself has emphasized the importance of the Sunnah in many verses
The Qur'ân is the word of Allah which was revealed to the Prophet Muhammad, may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, and preserved both verbally and in writing by his Companions. Apart from the Qur'ân, whatever the Prophet uttered or did was also preserved by the Companions. Thus the Sunnah includes the sayings of the Prophet, peace be upon him, known commonly as hadiths (i.e. sayings), his practices, and actions which gained his approval. Both the Qur'ân and the Sunnah fall under a common title "wahy" (i.e. revelation or inspiration); the difference between the two is that the Qur'ân is a revelation which is recited (matalu) in the formal prayer (salat) while the Sunnah is not recited in the formal prayers.
For more details on the fact that the Prophet, may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, not only received the verses of the Qur'ân from Allah, but he also received other revelation from time to time which is now preserved in the form of hadiths please visit http://www.ahya.org/amm/modules.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=104 |
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sahira
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 9:31 PM
salaam brothers i will try to answer your queations InshaAllah feel a bit ganged up on but no worries. ok first to brother marwan salaam, you started this debate asking if islam has become Mohammadanism nad i said you was genralising as to how do you define majority by minority to this brother aboosait gave links to pics of tombs and graves and grave worshipping...my answer to this is you only get jiyal people doing these acts they happen all over the world but an educated muslim would not practice this shirk.
now brother you have written a ver lenghty essay which i have not fully read as right from the begining of your post the dicussion has changed from your original question to debate about Quran and sunnah and if you llok on the forum we already have a debate going about this so maybe you need to post there as you have gone of the original discussion.
brother abboosait salaam, im not ignoring what brother perv pointed out and agree with you it is pretty bad in places but like i mentioned above thats a different discussion and if theis thread was started based on onlt those pictures to prove islam is going mohammdanism then you dont have much of an argument.
regarding your question if i take everything associated to the Prophet PBUH as hadiths well my answer to that is no i know hadiths is man made tis why i choose to read and follow authntic hadiths with have been agreed upon by the majority schools of thought.
alos brother Perv, the hadiths validate the character of the Prophet PBUH because we hear about his good character through people who associated with him lived with him personally knew him...yes hadtihs is man made and is made from words taken by people and passed down hundreds and hundreds of years, so naturally mistakes can be made with wording ect but the genral jist of it is the same you know this by studying work of different scholors and comparing majority of the outcome will be the same.
brothers wether hadiths is right or wrong is a different dabate and a very indebth and intense one if you look at the thread on quran and sunnah. you've been taught to belive hadiths is wrong, and i belive it right untill im proved otherwise and i cant see that happening. the other point i would like to make is i belive in hadiths but i dont compare it to Quran sharif, i dont take hadiths on just hadiths value it has to be quoted from the quran stuff that i look up, i guess i use tha hadiths to have better understanding of how to practice in the best poss way but when i want to know about my religion obviously i would study the quran for this. so what im saying is all of us who do belive in the hadiths first turn to the quran then hadiths, iv rambled on abit im not even sure im making any sense here. but i hope you understand what imtrying to say. |
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perv1
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 11:11 PM
salaam Saihra
quote:
alos brother Perv, the hadiths validate the character of the Prophet PBUH because we hear about his good character through people who associated with him lived with him personally knew him...yes hadtihs is man made and is made from words taken by people and passed down hundreds and hundreds of years, so naturally mistakes can be made with wording ect but the genral jist of it is the same you know this by studying work of different scholors and comparing majority of the outcome will be the same.
What would you say about a book which portrayed prophet Mohd as a Paedophile, condoned rape and committed torture. Even though in some places it praised him as well. If this book was your the criterean for judging the prophet then surely you would have to accept his negative traits as well as the positive. Or on what basis would you only accept the good things about him and not the bad ones.
regards |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Sunday, November 12, 2006 - 1:21 AM
quote:
What would you say about a book which portrayed prophet Mohd as a Paedophile, condoned rape and committed torture. Even though in some places it praised him as well.
You call it anything. Who cares? I have definded what is really 'hadees' and have also made it clear that the enemies of Islam have written many a false statement and attributed them to the Prophet Sallahu Alaihi Wa Sallam. Please read my Post dated - Saturday, November 11, 2006 - 6:22 PM. |
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perv1
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Sunday, November 12, 2006 - 11:57 AM
salaam
quote:
ANYONE WHO REJECTS THE SUNNAH OF THE PROPHET, PEACE BE UPON HIM, DOES NOT BELIEVE IN THE QUR'ÂN, for Almighty Allah Himself has emphasized the importance of the Sunnah in many verses
Exactly which verses are these. Please do not quote another website.. if you are unable to provide simple references from the Quran or unable to explain them then simply say so.
Amazing logic you have in that if someone says they only believe what the Quran tells them.. your arguement is that they dont really believe the Quran?
regards |
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sahira
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Sunday, November 12, 2006 - 2:57 PM
| salaam brothe perv, its funny i have heard about this as many a westerners use it against us in alot of arguments but i have not personally come across it. if your telling me its in all hadiths then i havent seen it, but if its in a specific one maybe you can give me a link i would like to read it myself. maybe you are referring to the way the hadiths have been interpreted i dont know but im keen to know more if you can be a bit more specific for me please. |
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sahira
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Sunday, November 12, 2006 - 3:03 PM
| going back to the first page and re-reading your post brother aboosat yes i agree enemy's have re-written the hadiths to bring down islam, but it dosnt just stop at that aparantly they have also copied and changed the quran to make islam llok bad and this book called farqaan is being passed around in ameriaca and middle east for children to learn from |
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oosman
USA
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Posted - Sunday, November 12, 2006 - 3:09 PM
These hadith are from sahih bukhari
torture:
Volume 2, Book 24, Number 577:
Narrated Anas:
Some people from 'Uraina tribe came to Medina and its climate did not suit them, so Allah's Apostle (p.b.u.h) allowed them to go to the herd of camels (given as Zakat) and they drank their milk and urine (as medicine) but they killed the shepherd and drove away all the camels. So Allah's Apostle sent (men) in their pursuit to catch them, and they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut, and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron and they were left in the Harra (a stony place at Medina) biting the stones. (See Hadith No. 234, Vol. 1)
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 261:
Narrated Anas bin Malik:
A group of eight men from the tribe of 'Ukil came to the Prophet and then they found the climate of Medina unsuitable for them. So, they said, "O Allah's Apostle! Provide us with some milk." Allah's Apostle said, "I recommend that you should join the herd of camels." So they went and drank the urine and the milk of the camels (as a medicine) till they became healthy and fat. Then they killed the shepherd and drove away the camels, and they became unbelievers after they were Muslims. When the Prophet was informed by a shouter for help, he sent some men in their pursuit, and before the sun rose high, they were brought, and he had their hands and feet cut off. Then he ordered for nails which were heated and passed over their eyes, and whey were left in the Harra (i.e. rocky land in Medina). They asked for water, and nobody provided them with water till they died (Abu Qilaba, a sub-narrator said, "They committed murder and theft and fought against Allah and His Apostle, and spread evil in the land.")
child marriage
Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64:
Narrated 'Aisha:
that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).
Allah knows best the truth and the falsehood. |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Sunday, November 12, 2006 - 6:19 PM
Text[quote]Exactly which verses are these. Please do not quote another website..
As to the second part I would like to say that when things are already explained in a book or website it will be a waste of time and energy repeating them here.
Now here is the translation of the meanings of the verses:
O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those charged with authority among you; and if you differ in anything among yourselves, then refer it to Allah and the Messenger if you do believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is best and most suitable for final determination." (Sûrah Al-Nisa' 4:59)
"The answer of the believers, when summoned to Allah and His Messenger in order that he may judge between them, is no other than this: they say, 'We hear and we obey'. It is such as these who will attain success." (Sûrah Al-Nur 24:51)
"But no, by your Lord! (O Muhammad) They cannot be believers until they make you judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against your decisions, but accept them with the fullest submission." (Sûrah Al-Nisa' 4:65)
"So take whatever the Messenger gives you and keep away from what he forbids you." (Sûrah Al-Hashr 59:7) |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Sunday, November 12, 2006 - 6:27 PM
quote:
child marriage
Allah knows best the truth and the falsehood.
What Was The Age of Ummul Mo'mineen Ayesha (May Allah be pleased with her) When She Married To Prophet Muhammad (Peace be upon him)?
• According to almost all the historians Asma (ra), the elder sister of Ayesha (ra) was ten years older than Ayesha (ra). It is reported in Taqri'bu'l-tehzi'b as well as Al-bidayah wa'l-nihayah that Asma (ra) died in 73 hijrah when she was 100 years old.
Now, obviously if Asma (ra) was 100 years old in 73 hijrah she should have been 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah.
If Asma (ra) was 27 or 28 years old at the time of hijrah, Ayesha (ra) should have been 17 or 18 years old at that time.
Thus, Ayesha (ra), if she got married in 1 AH (after hijrah) or 2 AH, was between 18 to 20 years old at the time of her marriage.
• Tabari in his treatise on Islamic history, while mentioning Abu Bakr (ra) reports that Abu Bakr had four children and all four were born during the Jahiliyyah -- the pre Islamic period.
Obviously, if Ayesha (ra) was born in the period of jahiliyyah, she could not have been less than 14 years in 1 AH -- the time she most likely got married.
• According to Ibn Hisham, the historian, Ayesha (ra) accepted Islam quite some time before Umar ibn Khattab (ra). This shows that Ayesha (ra) accepted Islam during the first year of Islam.
While, if the narrative of Ayesha's (ra) marriage at seven years of age is held to be true, Ayesha (ra) should not have been born during the first year of Islam |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Sunday, November 12, 2006 - 6:30 PM
quote:
going back to the first page and re-reading your post brother aboosat yes i agree enemy's have re-written the hadiths to bring down islam, but it dosnt just stop at that aparantly they have also copied and changed the quran to make islam llok bad and this book called farqaan is being passed around in ameriaca and middle east for children to learn from
Dear sister, farqaan is not Qur'an |
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Noora83
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Sunday, November 12, 2006 - 6:40 PM
Salamualaikum to all,
Ive recently joined and i found this thread to be very eye catching and interesting. I will express my views soon inshAllah.
Firstly, may I ask what is this book "farqaan" that is being distributed. Is there information online about it. I understand someone had mentioned that it is a devious book that is being used to mislead people to think it is the quran. I would like to know more.
Thank you.Text |
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sahira
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Sunday, November 12, 2006 - 7:07 PM
welcome noora and salaam, it would be good to have your input.going back to brother aboosat:
QUOTE:Dear sister, farqaan is not Qur'an"
yes brother i know its not but it is being distributed as the holy quran.
Noora i had an email sent to me ragrding the farqaan stuff and i had links to sites for it i will try looking them up for you.
thank you brother oosman for the hadiths but i think brother aboosat answered that one. alot of stuff was written which does not seem just to us but we have to remember alot was written for them times and situations, as far as i knew the justice then was if you stole your nads got cut of which is still the law in alot of middle eastern countries,and in the verse you stated it mentions murder of the shepeard, maybe those punishments were just for the crime in that time. Allah SWT knows best |
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