| Author | Topic |
usmani790
PAKISTAN
|
 Posted - Tuesday, June 5, 2007 - 1:00 PM 
Dr.Rishad
Quote:-What I say And Mean is that: when a thing is clearly and simply stated and explained in Quraan then is any other evidence or statement required to believe it or implement it!!??(or the word of Quran is the Law and Final!?)?
Brother we need to follow the Quran completely.Quran clearly says that amongst others duties, one of the Prophet(pbuh) job is to explain us what is revealed in Quran.So now we are binded by the God Himself to see the explanations of Prophet(pbuh) with the Quran to fully understand the wishes of our Creator. This is the way followed by every learned scholar of the past and the present to understand the Quran.
Quote:-Quran prohibits imbibing alcohol. Now does the believer refrain from imbibing immidiately on seeing it in Quran or wait for someone to dig up ahadith or a statement from a Sahabah to reconfirm it???
No, Quran prohibits “kumer” with others many things alcohol also comes in the list explained by prophet(pbuh)
Qoute:-Nowhere have I stated or even insinuated that sayings of our beloved Prophet have no place in Islam!!
The way you said things its lead to me on that.I know now, you actually not intended to say this.I am sorry if I heart you. |
|
rishadrizvi
INDIA
|
Posted - Tuesday, June 5, 2007 - 1:26 PM
Salaam Again Usmani Bhai,
Quote:-----------------------------
No, Quran prohibits “kumer” with others many things alcohol also comes in the list explained by prophet(pbuh)
--------------------------------------
Thanks for correcting my question But
it does not answer my question!!?? |
|
usmani790
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Tuesday, June 5, 2007 - 2:12 PM
Quote:-So its pointless getting into a debate whether Rasoolallah(PBUH) banned it first or Hazrat Umar(R.A) later.
Why it is pointless getting into debate???? |
|
rishadrizvi
INDIA
|
Posted - Tuesday, June 5, 2007 - 8:38 PM
Quote:-----------------------------
Why it is pointless getting into debate????
-----------------------------------
Because....
Question Asked!
Question Answered with Quranic Reference!
All Agree!
End of the Issue!
Further Debate or discussion On Mutah would not change the Fact that it is a banned practice in Islam!
(And Once again Usmani mian smartly ducks my question.....LOL....forget it bhai ....I know you've got the point.) |
|
usmani790
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Wednesday, June 6, 2007 - 8:23 AM
| I can not believe what kind of people you are.Due to yours lack of knowledge or what ever the reasons you people says some thing which clearly apper of insulting the Prophet(pbuh) and Campanions.In my first reply to you,I have tried to show that.Instead of realizing yours mistake,you are very keen to get yours answer.If you have little sence only I have given yours yours answer here. |
|
rishadrizvi
INDIA
|
Posted - Wednesday, June 6, 2007 - 12:07 PM
quote:
I can not believe what kind of people you are.Due to yours lack of knowledge or what ever the reasons you people says some thing which clearly apper of insulting the Prophet(pbuh) and Campanions.In my first reply to you,I have tried to show that.Instead of realizing yours mistake,you are very keen to get yours answer.If you have little sence only I have given yours yours answer here.
Dear Respected Usmani Sahib,
As-Salaam-Alaikum,
Bhai aap toh Garam ho Gaye!
Sorry! Agar koi baat buri lagi ho toh maaf kar dein.
Please don't get Angry: It is the first sign of running out of Ideas and helplessness.
I've been following your debates on other forums as well and have developed a healthy respect and admiration for your knowledge and style.
The Above reply is very Un-Usmani790 Like.
Quote---------------------------------
I can not believe what kind of people you are.Due to yours lack of knowledge or what ever the reasons you people says some thing which clearly apper of insulting the Prophet(pbuh) and Campanions
---------------------------------------
Bhai....
Please clarify using my Post, Where and
how did I Insult The Prophet(PBUH)and Companions.
Its a huge and a very serious allegation brother!
Remember making false Allegations is also a Sin!
One of Us has to repent!!
If it just "appeared" to you thatI had Insulted the Prophet(PBUH) and Companions, then my suggestion to you is to kindly change your interpreter if you are using one; if not, then take proper English classes before making such serious and irresponsible allegations.
Quote----------------------------------
Instead of realizing yours mistake,you are very keen to get yours answer.If you have little sence only I have given yours yours answer here.[/
---------------------------------------
Brother, Intimidation Tactics to dodge Questions should be avoided in discussions where only truth is seeked.
As far as your Insults directed at me are concerned-I am not bothered and I don't mind.
May Allah Guide us on Siraatal-Mustaqueem and
May Allah forgive us all! Ameen!
Allah Hafiz,
Dr Rishad. |
|
usmani790
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Wednesday, June 6, 2007 - 5:21 PM
Dr.Rishad
Once There was a dispute between a muslim and a jew. The muslim person ask the geo,shall see Prophet Muhammed(pbuh) to settle this dispute amongst us.The jew fellow agreed on that and they both went to see the Prophet(pbuh).What happened Prophet(pbuh) have decided the case in the favour of jew fellow.They both came out .The muslim fellow ask the jew that he wish to see Umer(RA) for his opinion on that.The jew fellow got surprised and finally agreed on that.They both then went to see Umer(RA) for his opinion.When the reached over there and told him the matter to him.Before Umer(RA) decide the case the jew fellow told him that before they already have seen Prophet(pbuh) and He has decided the case in my favor but this muslim fellow wish to have yours decision on that.
After listening of that Hazrat Umer(RA) went inside and brought his sword and chop the head of muslim fellow.What was the reason of chopping his head was not following the decision of Prophet(pbuh).
Your Said:-So its pointless getting into a debate whether Rasoolallah(PBUH) banned it first or Hazrat Umar(R.A) later.
I have first tried to educate you on that very humbly,we cannot finalized any thing if it is the Quran,we need to see ahadith on the same issue as well to fully comply on God desire.But you still not clear of yours mistke.So it is not point less but it is very required.That was yours mistake and even after my humble explanation you still looking for yours mistake.
Yours mistake may be not that big as the above fellow did and got his head chopped but certainly it is also not that small that another muslim brother can not get angry on that.
Until now my intention is to save my brother(you) from God anger.How you see all this from me you know better. |
|
waseem
UNITED KINGDOM
|
Posted - Wednesday, June 6, 2007 - 7:09 PM
| Call men to the path of your Lord with wisdom and kindly exhortation and debate with them in the most befitting manner. Indeed, your Lord best knows those who stray from His path and those who are rightly guided. And if you avenge, let this be commensurate with the wrong that has been inflicted upon you. And if you exercise patience, then this is the best way for the patient. (16:125-126) |
|
waseem
UNITED KINGDOM
|
Posted - Wednesday, June 6, 2007 - 7:16 PM
Brother Usmani, Dr Rishad has conducted himself in a very appropriate manner and in my humble opinion has made a valid point. I understand that in your opinion the Qur'an cannot be interpreted without hadith. But others like me believe that The Qur’an and the Sunnah hold a pivotal place as the source of understanding of religion. The Sunnah and the Qur’an do not abrogate each other. They cannot be overruled by Hadith. Both these sources contain the entire religion. Hadith can thus explain these sources or provide the best example set by the Holy Prophet (pbuh); it cannot abrogate or contradict the basic corpus of religion residing in the Qur’an and the Sunnah. Hadith literature does not add to the content of religion; it offers an explanation of the Holy Qur’an and the Sunnah, and dictates sense and reason.
As I understand hadith is a khabar i wahid. and in my humble opinion Allah would not use a prophet and messenger to give some aspects of religion and a hand ful of people to deliver the remaining bit.
I have discussed this issue before and I feel we agree to disagree.I am not trying to convince you but merely raising the point that if people have different opinion from us we should debate this issues academically and with reasons not by degrading them. We must practice the religion we preech and propagate. |
|
aboosait
INDIA
|
Posted - Thursday, June 7, 2007 - 3:10 AM
..............and in my humble opinion Allah would not use a prophet and messenger to give some aspects of religion and a hand ful of people to deliver the remaining bit...............
Great post. Jazakallahu Khair. |
|
usmani790
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Thursday, June 7, 2007 - 10:15 AM
I have given my explanation from Quran,Sunnah and the act of Hazrat Umar(RA) that how Dr. Risad is wrong here.
How you have explained the Hadith and Sunnah here if its the true explanation, then it must have its roots in Quran and Sunnah.The problem is that no one still able to give me any thind here from it.
If the angle coming on you people and telling you all that so I have no daubt that he is not angle but he is shaitan. |
|
rishadrizvi
INDIA
|
Posted - Friday, June 8, 2007 - 12:48 AM
Waseem Sahib,
As-Salaam-Alaikum!
Thanks for sharing my burden in trying to explain my point to Usmani bhai. Thanks!
JazakAllah! |
|
rishadrizvi
INDIA
|
Posted - Friday, June 8, 2007 - 4:55 AM
As-salaam-Alaikum,
Brother Usmani has not only finally framed charges against me but also has placed my neck under the sword!
I am sorry to deviate from the main topic, but I would like to make one last attempt to clarify brother Usmani’s confusion.
I plead Not Guilty!
Quote____________________________
Your Said:-So its pointless getting into a debate whether Rasoolallah(PBUH) banned it first or Hazrat Umar(R.A) later.
-------------------------------------
The quotation is the second half of the single thought. If you read the full thought you will get a different picture.
Full Quote_________________________
1.Quran shows us the right path to conduct ourselves in the matters of marriage.
2.The teachings of Quran automatically prohibit any method of marriage other than that mentioned in Quran!
So its pointless getting into a debate whether Rasoolallah(PBUH) banned it first or Hazrat Umar(R.A) later.
Quran does not permit Mutah or Any other Form of Debauchery. Period!
----------------------------------
1.I am saying in the quote that if Quran tells you Something Clearly then its pointless for us to get into a debate , on who banned it first or later. We have to follow it!
2.I DID NOT SAY THAT IF RASOOALLAH(PBUH) OR HAZRAT UMER(R.A) BANNED MUTAH THEN ITS POINTLESS TO DEBATE!
(Now brother if you start reading the above quote(2) from Rasoolallah(PBUH) and Hazrat Umer(R.A)onwards………..You’d get me lynched!)
3.If Qura’an says mutah is not permitted in Islam do you think
Our Prophet(PBUH) or any other Sahabi or for that matter any Muslim worth his salt would disagree??
QUOTE__________________________________
I have first tried to educate you on that very humbly,we cannot finalized any thing if it is the Quran,we need to see ahadith on the same issue as well to fully comply on God desire.But you still not clear of yours mistke.So it is not point less but it is very required.That was yours mistake and even after my humble explanation you still looking for yours mistake.
-------------------------------------
4.Your point is that every time I consult Quraan I also try to find the corresponding Hadith. Fair enough. Point taken. Inshaallah will do.
But tell me brother If I had not been consulting hadith along with Quraan have I been commiting a sin or insulting Prophet(PBUH) and his companions???
(With proof from Quraan or Hadith…..No sweeping statements or wild rhetorics please! This is the root of your allegation!!! )
QUOTE__________________________________
After listening of that Hazrat Umer(RA) went inside and brought his sword and chop the head of muslim fellow.What was the reason of chopping his head was not following the decision of Prophet(pbuh).
Your Said:-So its pointless getting into a debate whether Rasoolallah(PBUH) banned it first or Hazrat Umar(R.A) later.
---------------------------------------
KAHIN PE NIGAHEN KAHIN PE NISHAANA!!!!!
Brother Usmani … either you are badly confused or you desperately want to
Pin the charge of insulting Prophet(PBUH) and companions on me.
(Remember: Unless you are sure don’t make false allegations, its one of the major sins!)
The hadith that you have quoted is totally out of place!!!!!
QUOTE----------------------------------
“What was the reason of chopping his head was not following the decision of Prophet(pbuh).”
---------------------------------------
THE DECISION TO STOP THE PRACTICE OF MUTAH IN ISLAM WAS GIVEN BY
ALLAH TALA IN QURAAN BY REGULARISING THE EXSISTING METHOD OF NIKAH THEREBY PUTTING STOP TO ANY OTHER METHOD AND NOT BY PROPHET(PBUH) OR HAZRAT UMER(R.A). THEY ONLY IMPLEMENTED WHAT WAS ORDERED BY ALLAH!
---------------------------------------
So this hadith doesn’t fit here!
Nowhere in my post have I said or meant or alleged that I will not follow Prophets descision! Nor is my post insulting to the Prophet(PBUH)
Not by any stretch of imagination!!
Give it to a class five student to read and Iam sure he /she will find nothing wrong with my post!
So please give it a serious thought and clarify your confusion!
Right in the end I’d like to ask Usmani bhai a question :
WHAT IS MORE SACRED AND AUTHENTIC AND CARRIES MORE WEIGHTAGE FOR A TRUE MUSLIM?
1. WORDS OF ALLAH BROUGHT TO US BY OUR BELOVED RASOOLALLAH(SAW)
OR
2. THE SAYINGS OF OUR BELOVED RASOOLALLAH(SAW)BROUGHT TO US BY VARIOUS HISTORIANS YEARS AFTER HIS DEATH
WASSALAAM |
|
Nida_e_Khair
PAKISTAN
|
 Posted - Saturday, June 9, 2007 - 11:56 AM
Assalaamu 'Alaikum everyone.
I have a question. A sister told me that she went to a Shiyah website. Over there, she saw something written against Hazrat 'Alee (AS). It was written that he committed Mut'ah, and that too, after he married Faatimah (AS).
I told this sister that what she read was total blasphemy! I told her that 'Alee never married anyone except Faatimah, and that he never committed Mut'ah.
Did I do the right thing?
Now, please don't fall into arguments! Just give me a "yes" or "no". |
|
usmani790
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Saturday, June 9, 2007 - 12:48 PM
Dr.Rishad,
Quote:-Your point is that every time I consult Quraan I also try to find the corresponding Hadith. Fair enough. Point taken. Inshaallah will do.
But tell me brother If I had not been consulting hadith along with Quraan have I been commiting a sin or insulting Prophet(PBUH) and his companions???
(With proof from Quraan or Hadith…..No sweeping statements or wild rhetorics please! This is the root of your allegation!!! )
Quote:-THE SAYINGS OF OUR BELOVED RASOOLALLAH(SAW)BROUGHT TO US BY VARIOUS HISTORIANS YEARS AFTER HIS DEATH
Brother Rishad,
I will request you to read the following article completly.The link is there for you.
We have revealed to you the Zikr (Qur’ân) so that you may explain to the people what has been sent down for them.
The word “Zikr” has been used here for the Holy Qur’ân as has been used in the verse 15:9 and it has been made clear that the people can only benefit from its guidance when they are led by the explanations of the Holy Prophet ().
Again, the words “for the people” indicate (especially in the original Arabic context), that the Holy Prophet’s () explanation is always needed by “everyone.”
Now, if everyone, in every age is in need of the prophetic explanation, without which they cannot fully benefit from the Holy Book, how would it be useful for them to preserve the Qur’ânic text and leave its prophetic explanation at the mercy of distorters, extending to it no type of protection whatsoever.
Therefore, once the necessity of the prophetic explanations of the Holy Qur’ân is accepted, it will be self-contradictory to claim that these explanations are unavailable today. It will amount to negating the divine wisdom, because it is in no way a wise policy to establish the necessity of the sunnah on the one hand and to make its discovery impossible on the other. Such a policy cannot be attributed to Allâh, the All-Mighty, the All-Wise.
http://www.freewebs.com/iqraquranskole/authorityofsunnah.htm |
|
usmani790
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Saturday, June 9, 2007 - 12:54 PM
Quote:- told her that 'Alee never married anyone except Faatimah.
Wrong. |
|
 Reply to Topic 
Printer Friendly |
| Jump To: |
|
|
|