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saadiamalik
PAKISTAN
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 Posted - Monday, December 13, 2004 - 2:06 AM 
Assalaamu Alaikum.
Its not at all necessary that we fight. I know I won't, over any kind of disagreements, insha'Allah.
Wasalaam.
Saadia |
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askhalifa
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
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Posted - Tuesday, December 14, 2004 - 6:27 AM
Brothers and sisters, we are still discussing whether we have to discuss or not. let us start my point of view is
"My understanding is, as people from kufa had written lots of letters to Hazran Hussain and requested him to come to kufa and take over khalifate. Hazrat Hussain thought that, khilafah of yazeed is not yet established. Probably, from his point of view Yazeed is yet trying to establish kihlafa." |
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aslam
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Wednesday, December 15, 2004 - 1:28 PM
Salams,
This is indeed very sensitive issue but I think if we discuss the issue in a healthy way,not trying to judge some body,s intention or faith,we can have a good discussion and can end up clearing many cobwebs surrounding this issue.
Generally Sahaba(ra)shunned mutiny against the rulers of the time,keeping in mind the directives of the prophet(pbuh)in mind and the fasad(disorder)their mutinies might have entailed.
Second thing is that whether we should believe all the narratives and historical traditions about Muaiwia(ra)and yazid which depict them in very bad light.
Was not most of our history compiled in the time of Abbasids who were sworn enemies of Ummayeds? |
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saadiamalik
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, December 17, 2004 - 1:50 AM
Interesting. Thank you, Bro Aslam.
Wasalaam. |
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zest
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, December 18, 2004 - 7:25 AM
thanks brother khalifah
So i learn that Hussain (rta) was invited by a huge no of iraqis and this gave him an impression that the kihlafah of yazeed was not yet established. That is why he marched to Kufah. Right?
What made him stop and judge the situation there? He sent (we are told) his cousin to examine the state of affairs in Kufa. He was not sure. I think we should examine this a little.
Another important question is what was he after? Did he plan to fight agaisnt the state if successful in assembling enough people? Please comment. |
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Loveall
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, December 18, 2004 - 11:49 PM
With the Name of Allah, the most Merciful and Gracious!
My aim in this post is not the discussion but sharing the knowledge or a history/story as per request of the brothers and the sisters.
The British Govt in the Subcontinent (India) was a sworn enemy of Tippu Sultan. Pakistan came into existence 148 years after Tippu Sultan had been martyred. If the history of Tippu Sultan was written inspite of the powerful British Govt then what about the period of Abbasi family. Was there no supporter of the Ummayya family? Was every member of the Ummayya family against Abbasi family? Three or four real brothers can’t sit together at the dining table and how is it possible that a full family or a tribe was in a unity. So truthfulness is independent and finds the way itself.
If Saudi Govt is being called unislamic now a days because of just banning women going alone to Mecca/Medina without a Mahram based on the solid evidence of Ahadith, then what about Yazid’s Khilafat, in which Hijab of women were pulled, water for even drinking was stopped and not only hungry and thirsty elders and adults but even children were also martyred?
So far as my knowledge is concerned, I try to brief the history as following.
The total period of Khilafat of Hazrat Amir Maavia (Ra) is approx 20 years and due to his old age and sever illness, he transferred all the powers, in his life, to his son Yazid and this change of Khilafat into a dictatorship and due to the characters of Yazid, was not accepted by Hazrat Hussain (Ra) who had not given the vote or “Beaat” to Yazid otherwise Hazrat Ali (Ra) had accepted Hazrat Abu bakar Siddique(Ra), Hazrat Umar(Ra) and Hazrat Usman(Ra) without any objection.
When Hazrat Hussain (Ra) and his supporters got started teasing by Yazid, they had decided to migrate to Mecca. In their way to Mecca many were martyred by Yazid’s people and letters of the support of people of Kufa were also received. Hazrat Hussain (Ra) and his supporters paid no much attention to the support of people of Kufa and first of all they all went to Mecca because those were the days of Hajj and the next month was Moharram. After that when they reached Kufa there was totally an opposite situation because Yazid had already arranged for that because Hazrat Hussain (Ra) and his supporters had remained busy at Mecca for Hajj. When at Kufa, Hazrat Hussain (Ra) and his supporters had been being treated same as in Madina (Capital of the Khilafat), they had decided to migrate to Subcontinent (India) but had been trapped at Karbala where they had stayed for rest. Such aggressiveness of Yazid can’t be understood that he had attacked on those people who had been now not interfering into his Khilafat but migrating to some other place outside the area of Yazid’s Khilafat. Some troops of Hazrat Hussain (Ra) had succeeded to reach Subcontinent and their graves are present at Lahore, Pakistan.
Holy Prophet (sws) had used to love his grandsons so much that he had had used to feel uncomfortable if they had been out of the sight. At the time of death of Holy Prophet (sws) the age Hazrat Hussain (Ra) was only 3 or 4 years and Holy Prophet, (sws) before his death, advised all his Sahaba (companions) to take care of his grandsons and pay Love on his behalf too. Hazrat Ali (Ra) is father of Hazrat Hussain (Ra) and Hazrat Fatima (Ra)- beloved daughter of Holy Prophet (sws) mother who died at the age of only 17 or 18 years, six months after the death of her father (sws), obviously had taken care and all the Khulfa from Hazrat Abu bakar Siddique(Ra) to Hazrat Amir Maavia (Ra) also kept remembered the lesson of Holy Prophet (sws) and had their special hand of love, throughout their lives, on the heads of the grandsons of Holy Prophet (sws). Hazrat Amir Maavia (Ra) stressfully reminded his son the lesson of Holy Prophet (sws) and advised him to do special respect of Hazrat Hussain (Ra) but after becoming a powerful ruler Yazid had become so much rude and arrogant that he remained unable to obey his father too. Being old and seriously ill, Hazrat Amir Maavia (Ra) could not afford this attitude of Yazid and died after few days otherwise he must had had taken over himself again regardless of his age and health or handed over to some other person.
Hazrat Ali (Ra) was a well known experienced soldier and a leader in “Ghazwat” He was so much expert that he had used to kill many enemies within a very short time without being seriously injured himself. It is also stated that at that times most of the people were those whose many relatives had had been killed by Hazrat Ali (Ra) in different “Ghazwat” and so they showed a revengeful attitude, therefore had not joined Hazrat Hussain (Ra) and his supporters. Furthermore Yazid used some incentives or threats to the people against Hazrat Hussain (Ra).
Hazrat Hussain (Ra) was not only a personality full of patience but in the battlefield was as brave as his father. Being a single injured person, the same sword of his father in his hand, had not let any body to come near ultimately the enemy got the opportunity when Hazrat Hussain (Ra) was in the state of Sajda for Namaz-e-Asr.
Soon after the incidence, Yazid and his supporters were all arrested and killed in a very bad way after a prolonged period of torturing them. Has any body seen the grave of Yazid and can describe the involuntary psychological feelings either way?
Second Kalifa Hazrat Umar(Ra) had used to distribute himself on his own back, flour and other necessities to the needy people and said, “In my period of Kalifat, even if a dog dies of hunger and thirst then I, Umar(Ra) is responsible and answerable to God at the day of Judgement” And what had Yazid done? He stopped even water for grandson of the Holy Prophet (sws), the family and the supporters and all even a six months old son of Hazrat Hussain (Ra) were martyred thirsty and hungry.
It is even unacceptable to slaughter an animal when thirsty and hungry. Could Hazrat Hussain (Ra) accept such a person like Yazid? Hazrat Hussain (Ra) had refused to accept him but had not interfered into his Khilafat rather decided to migrate somewhere else.
If, a person like Hussain who was brought up in the lap of Holy Prophet (sws) and his great mother Hazrat Fatima (in the respect of whom Holy Prophet (sws) himself used to stand up to give us the lesson of respecting the daughters), great father Hazrat Ali (Ra) and great Sahaba then, can we think of some thing at fault on the part of Hussain (Ra). He had given us the lesson to confront a cruel ruler.
I also want to point out that for example like standard international kilogramme or meter kept at Paris from which kilogrammes or meters are compared all over the world, the standard Quran all over the world is that which was composed by Hazrat Usman (Ra) which helps to correct some mistake of printing etc. We all read that Quran whether Sunni or Shiah. Hazrat Amir Maavia (Ra) is also one of “Katebe Wahe” (writer of the messages (Quran) of Allah by angle Jebraeel (aleh-salam) to Holy Prophet (sws)
Regardless of writer of the history, using the common sense all those who are loved by Holy Prophet (sws) whether grandsons or Sahaba, we must have a soft corner to accommodate them to respect the wishes of Holy Prophet (sws) who said, “ My all Sahaba are like stars, if you will get guidance from any one of them, you are always successful”. What had Hazrat Hussain guided us?
May Allah help and forgive us, Aameen!
Edited by: Loveall on Sunday, March 06, 2005 12:07 AM |
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saadiamalik
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Sunday, December 19, 2004 - 11:16 PM
Loveall, could you please, for the benefit of our audience, declare the sources from where you get your history?
Also, however corrupt a ruler be, do you hold that a single man can stand up and revolt, and cause an uproar and revolution in society? Just a question. |
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saadiamalik
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Sunday, December 19, 2004 - 11:16 PM
Loveall, could you please, for the benefit of our audience, declare the sources from where you get your history?
Also, however corrupt a ruler be, do you hold that a single man can stand up and revolt, and cause an uproar and revolution in society? Just a question. |
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Loveall
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 9:27 PM
Regarding Questions of Saadia Malik, the Answers are as following.
SOURCE OF THE HISTORY
Regarding the history of the incidence, there is not a single source but multiple to which almost all the Ulma (scholars), with the exception of a few, are agreed. Not whole the story is available in a single book but some points and references.
The sources are various Islamic books which are taught in the schools, colleges and universities of Pakistan, supplemented by Baba Ghulam Fareed, Moulana Shibli Naamani, Allama Iqbal, Mirza Anees and Mirza Dabeer, Moulana Abul Aalaa Moududi, various columns and others in the newspapers, magazines and various speeches at Juma prayers at special occasions etc. The next question is, how have I done within a few days? The answer is that it is not the matter of a few days but many years. I have been reading Islamic books with interest since my childhood but it must be known that I am not a scholar.
SINGLE PERSON HAZRAT HUSSAIN (Ra)
Although in a minority, Hazrat Hussain (Ra) was not only a single person. Some were martyred at Madina, way to Mecca, Kufa and Karbala. It is also stated that one teen age son of Yazid had strongly opposed his father and therefore had been arrested at home where he had stopped eating and drinking. I do not know his name.
The reason of Hazrat Hussain (Ra) in minority, may be the following
1. The incidence of Karbalah had occurred 51 or 52 years after the death of Holy Prophet (sws) At that time number of Sahabah were minimum and those who were alive, were most of them at their old ages therefore some had joined Hazrat Hussain (Ra) and some could not. That time was not as that of Holy Prophet (sws) at which only first hand order was sufficient to come out and present everything of home for the purpose.
2. Suppose some decision is made by any Govt, which is not accepted by the public, what happens, the public accepts unwillingly and sit at their homes and we are all the eye witnesses all over the world where people do like that except at few places. In contrast to this as Hazrat Hussain (Ra) had only fear of Allah had come out and confronted and said, “My life is only for Allah and I do not want my Allah’s Deen to take a turn here”
3. I have already pointed out in the last post that that Hazrat Ali (Ra) was a well known experienced soldier and a leader in “Ghazwat” and other battles of Islam. He was so much expert that he had used to kill many enemies within a very short time without being seriously injured himself. It is also stated that at that times most of the people were those whose many relatives had had been killed by Hazrat Ali (Ra) in different “Ghazwat” and battles and so they showed a revengeful attitude, therefore had not joined Hazrat Hussain (Ra) and his supporters.
4. Yazid had also used some incentives or threats to the people against Hazrat Hussain (Ra).
AN IDEAL EXAMPLE OF PATIENCE OF HAZRAT HUSSAIN (Ra)
Hazrat Hurr was one of the commanders of Yazid’s forces. He was deputed to chase and trap Hazrat Hussain (Ra) while leaving Kufa for the subcontinent. Hazrat Hurr and his troops had got Hazrat Hussain (Ra) and his supporters, trapped at Karbala.
I do not know exactly, 1 or 2 day before 10th of Moharram Hazrat Hurr could not see the hungry and thirsty men women and children and melted in such a way that he thrown away his sword and presented himself to Hazrat Hussain (Ra) who had forgiven him and said, “ I am here only for Allah not for myself, You are my brother and Allah is happy with those who do “Taoba” These words are of that great person who was trapped and whose sword was flying in the air. Yazid’s people then martyred Hazrat Hurr. Hazrat Hurr and the son of Yazid are highly respectful personalities among the Shiah brothers.
In short, Hazrat Hussain (Ra), bearing fearful only of Allah, confronted the corrupt and cruel ruler unlike today in the world because he was Hussain (Ra), who had opened his eye into the lap of Holy Prophet (sws).
Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
I am strongly in favour of women rights, perhaps my relevant post at following like when I joined this web site, has been deleted.
http://www.studying-islam.org/forum/topic.aspx?topicid=801&pg=3&lang=&forumid=1
With regard!
Loveall |
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saadiamalik
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 10:53 PM
A simple and straight-forward question:
The current government in Pakistan is a military regime. How many of you are in favour of simply standing up and declaring Jihad against Musharraf and his cronies, "in the name of Allah"? And for those of you who are in favour, when do you plan to pick up your swords?
Wasalaam.
Saadia |
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atifrafi
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Wednesday, December 22, 2004 - 5:51 AM
| I am sorry but I haven't read the complete thread. I just want to say one thing, Which person declare Jihad with only around 70 people, and there were women and children in those 70 people. Do yoy really think that Hazrat Imam Hussain (rt) declared Jihad??? Its totally against common sense. |
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aslam
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Wednesday, December 22, 2004 - 1:43 PM
quote:
Regarding Questions of Saadia Malik, the Answers are as following.
SOURCE OF THE HISTORY
Regarding the history of the incidence, there is not a single source but multiple to which almost all the Ulma (scholars), with the exception of a few, are agreed. Not whole the story is available in a single book but some points and references.
The sources are various Islamic books which are taught in the schools, colleges and universities of Pakistan, supplemented by Baba Ghulam Fareed, Moulana Shibli Naamani, Allama Iqbal, Mirza Anees and Mirza Dabeer, Moulana Abul Aalaa Moududi, various columns and others in the newspapers, magazines and various speeches at Juma prayers at special occasions etc. The next question is, how have I done within a few days? The answer is that it is not the matter of a few days but many years. I have been reading Islamic books with interest since my childhood but it must be known that I am not a scholar.
How could the poetry of Anees,Dabeer and Iqbal be a source for a historiuc discussion like this??????????Strange!!!!!!!!
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aslam
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Wednesday, December 22, 2004 - 1:43 PM
quote:
Regarding Questions of Saadia Malik, the Answers are as following.
SOURCE OF THE HISTORY
Regarding the history of the incidence, there is not a single source but multiple to which almost all the Ulma (scholars), with the exception of a few, are agreed. Not whole the story is available in a single book but some points and references.
The sources are various Islamic books which are taught in the schools, colleges and universities of Pakistan, supplemented by Baba Ghulam Fareed, Moulana Shibli Naamani, Allama Iqbal, Mirza Anees and Mirza Dabeer, Moulana Abul Aalaa Moududi, various columns and others in the newspapers, magazines and various speeches at Juma prayers at special occasions etc. The next question is, how have I done within a few days? The answer is that it is not the matter of a few days but many years. I have been reading Islamic books with interest since my childhood but it must be known that I am not a scholar.
How could the poetry of Anees,Dabeer and Iqbal be a source for a historic discussion like this??????????Strange!!!!!!!!
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Loveall
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, December 24, 2004 - 11:28 PM
For Saadia, Your comments mean that you are in doubt of democracy in Pakistan. What is the definition of democracy?
For Aslam, Please remove the poetry, as all others are sufficient. |
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khaledgr8
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Monday, February 21, 2005 - 2:58 PM
AsalamoAliekum.
My dear brother Waqai karbala was political matter it was not a matter of faith.After about 1350 years ago every muslim viewed this event with sympathy of Imam Hussain .This act of Imam Hussain has created the basic wrong perception in muslim that "fighting agianst ruler without any reason and Islam is religion personality".I think because of this perception WE muslim are suffering.I inclined that this event should be seen clearly but i personally think Hazrat Yazid was more on justice side at that time.If u study this event in hsitory books u will come to know that the character of Hazrat Hasan was Historical n should be remembered.The perception of Hazrat Hasan should be preached among people rather than Hazrat Hussain.Hazrat Hasn many times scolded Hazrat Hussain for his illegal interest in goverment.Islam is a religion of God not of any particular family.The Nuetral reasearch of this event are banned in pakistan.If anyone is interested in this can contact through my email.
May God guide us in right path
Syed Sharif Uddin (khalid) |
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atifrafi
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 6:53 AM
Dear Brother khaledgr8,
If you have misunderstood the Waqia Karbala that doesn't means that Islam permits "fighting agianst ruler without any reason and Islam is religion personality".
Let's leave the personalities involved and check the incident :
When you have the "majority" calling you against an unjust ruler, its compulsory to raise a voice against the ruler. Don't you think that its a fair enough reason.
Secondly, when Hazrat Imam Hussain (rt) came to know that now majority of muslims are not with him, he gave 3 options:
1. Let me go back to Makkah ( because fighting was prohibited within Makkah )
2. Let me go out of the Islamic State
3. Take me to Yazeed.
Now, why he wants to meet Yazeed ??? Do you think that he was going to ask yazeed that "please leave the rule and let me take over the government ? " |
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