| Author | Topic |
usmani790
PAKISTAN
|
 Posted - Tuesday, March 13, 2007 - 11:52 AM 
Dear Abusait,
Quote:-Brother Usmani, on another page of this forum I found you quote the famous verse regarding solving mutual disptes from the Qur'an and Sunnah. Please follow the same rule here rather than comparing Madhhabs to telescopes...
Yes brother you are correct here.If one can find the verses from Quran and Sunnah then its makes one's job easier.Since I am not a schelor, so some times I am unable to produced any witness from Quran and Sunnah.We are learning things here from each others views.Since you ask me I got remember a verse of Quran.
So ask the people of remembrance, if you do not know (16:43).
Thank you for reminding me.
Regards, |
|
usmani790
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Tuesday, March 13, 2007 - 12:56 PM
Dear Salman,
5)Intellect could lead to wrong direction but Quran and Sunnah is the source which shows us always the right direction.What I am saying here only one shouldn’t give preference to one’s own intellect over the main sources.
6)What we are getting through the Madhab, is the effort of many scholars spread over 400 of years.What kind of intelligence is that not making use of this.
Questions: What about the difference of opinion (although minor) between Imam Abu Hanifa and Imam Sha'afi's judgments? was that also destruction of Islam?
Not at all these are the blessing,you know why even these minor difference has its roots from the main sources. The people who are not following a Madabs and use to oppose the Madahbs,see how they interpreting the things.You don’t have to go very far for that.
Quote:-What about difference between Maulana Maududi and rest of traditionalist scholars - destruction of Islam too?
Maulana Maudoodi never oppose the four Madhabs rather told that they are on the right tract.He says that if you are belong to either of the one than its ok.Why the traditional scholars use to oppose him that on some issues he goes against the earlier scholars. Traditional scholars says that the knowledge and capabilities which is require to decide any thing Maulana did not poses.
Quote:- its a qualitative discipline and such differences are natural to such disciplines. Should we stop doing that?
It is going on to an extend, but not an individual scholar is capable of doing so.
Regards, |
|
raushan
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
|
Posted - Tuesday, March 13, 2007 - 1:50 PM
quote:
Maulana Maudoodi never oppose the four Madhabs rather told that they are on the right tract.He says that if you are belong to either of the one than its ok..
ok
quote:
Why the traditional scholars use to oppose him that on some issues he goes against the earlier scholars. .
So the criterian for opposing is not right or wrong but just going against the earlier scholars.Is that so,brother usmani.
quote:
Traditional scholars says that the knowledge and capabilities which is require to decide any thing Maulana did not poses.
There is an ambiguity here.
To decide or judge and then passing sweeping comment about other's capabilities and knowledge one has to be more capable and knowledgable than others.So if the said maulana doesnt posses such qualification then how can we be sure as those who are judging others have more than enough knowledge required to decide about others position.
On the other note if none of the parties have "the requirement"to "decide" then the first one must be exceeding his limits. |
|
aboosait
INDIA
|
Posted - Tuesday, March 13, 2007 - 4:48 PM
quote:
To decide or judge and then passing sweeping comment about other's capabilities and knowledge one has to be more capable and knowledgable than others
.OK.quote:
So if the said maulana doesnt posses such qualification
Thus to select a moulana for andhi taqleed one has to be more capable and knowledgable than the moulana. Otherwise how can one know whether the moulana is capable and fit for/worthy of taqleed?
One cannot leave the job of selecting/judging the moulana for taqleed on other than self because as you have said,
quote:
then how can we be sure as those who are judging others have more than enough knowledge required to decide about others position.
|
|
salmant
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Wednesday, March 14, 2007 - 6:49 AM
Abusait wrote: Thus to select a moulana for andhi taqleed one has to be more capable and knowledgable than the moulana. Otherwise how can one know whether the moulana is capable and fit for/worthy of taqleed?
Reply: Very valid comment brother Abusait. Even if not more capable, the decision will be taken by none other than the individual follower on the basis of his "own intellect". So eventually it does boil down to the individual to decide, so instead of deciding on one scholar of one madhab, why cant he choose between scholarly opinions throughout his life? Statistically speaking, the larger the number of decisions, the better risk-of-error would be diversified & hence minimum error!
Usmani wrote: It is going on to an extend, but not an individual scholar is capable of doing so.
Reply: So the problem is only with an "individual" scholar, if the scholar belongs to a school or thought of several scholars and then presents a differing viewpoint, which seems closer to Quran & Sunnah, then probably it is not "destruction of Islam"?
Regards, |
|
aboosait
INDIA
|
Posted - Wednesday, March 14, 2007 - 7:49 AM
quote:
Statistically speaking, the larger the number of decisions, the better risk-of-error would be diversified & hence minimum error!
Brother, it is not the number of decisions but the quality of decision that has less chance of error.
By quality of decision I mean the conformity of the words of scholar with the Qur'an.
If the 'scholar' does not support his claim with authentic references s/he has to be replaced with someone whose statements are in conformity with the Qur'an and Sunnah.
One need not be a scholar to judge whether the statements are in conformity with the Qur'an and Sunnah, but can open the Holy Book and read for himself the translations of the verses quoted by such a scholar.
Hence if the so called scholar says of a particular Rulings that it is the Hanafi way or Shafi way or ...way he cannot be imitated unless he gives reference to the appropriate verse/to the page in the history of the Noble Companions. |
|
salmant
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Wednesday, March 14, 2007 - 8:22 AM
Dear Brother Aboosait,
I totally agree, the quality of decision, as you defined it will be judged in every decision you take. That is a given.
However if one has made a mistake in one of the decisions un-intentionally there is a chance of correcting it if he makes the choice number of times on different matters.
Incase of one decision (i.e. decision to choose scholar for a life-time following) such a diversification of risk-of-error doesnt take place.
In statistics, we usually refer to it as the law of large numbers, let me explain it as well. In simple terms, the more you toss a coin, the more closer the ratio-of-heads-to-tails would be to the true-ratio of the coin (which is 50:50 incase of an un-biased coin). So the more oppurtunity (no. of decisions from available scholarly opinions/options) you give yourself of checking whether something is closer to Quran & Sunnah or not, the better are your chances that you will be closer to Truth.
I hope I have not made it too complicated :)
P.S. And by the way your comment regarding the extent of knowledge of the individual in deciding a scholar is still valid, I havent rejected it
Edited by: salmant on Wednesday, March 14, 2007 8:43 AM
Edited by: salmant on Wednesday, March 14, 2007 8:46 AM |
|
usmani790
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Wednesday, March 14, 2007 - 8:24 AM
Quote:- So the problem is only with an "individual" scholar, if the scholar belongs to a school or thought of several scholars and then presents a differing viewpoint, which seems closer to Quran & Sunnah, then probably it is not "destruction of Islam"?
We need to understand why it is like that.Others scholars of the school of thoughts is always there from whom he can get help.Most importantly the the back up of Madhab's work is always there to guide and help him.
If a person is operating a company individually to provide some services to the industry.He will be lacking in the manpower resource and expertise,tool and plants,funds and many other things.
While a stablished company will be having all the resources to cope with every kind of challenging job indutry may offer to them.
So an individual how good he may be, can never compete with an established orginization. |
|
usmani790
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Wednesday, March 14, 2007 - 10:17 AM
Brother Raushan,
Quote:-On the other note if none of the parties have "the requirement"to "decide" then the first one must be exceeding his limits.
Please see the following,I have copied it from an article.
In order to protect the Shariah from the danger of innovation and distortion, the great scholars of usul laid down rigorous conditions which must be fulfilled by anyone wishing to claim the right of ijtihad for himself. These conditions include:
(a) mastery of the Arabic language, to minimise the possibility of misinterpreting Revelation on purely linguistic grounds;
(b) a profound knowledge of the Quran and Sunnah and the circumstances surrounding the revelation of each verse and hadith, together with a full knowledge of the Quranic and hadith commentaries, and a control of all the interpretative techniques discussed above;
(c) knowledge of the specialised disciplines of hadith, such as the assessment of narrators and of the matn [text];
(d) knowledge of the views of the Companions, Followers and the great imams, and of the positions and reasoning expounded in the textbooks of fiqh, combined with the knowledge of cases where a consensus (ijma) has been reached;
(e) knowledge of the science of juridical analogy (qiyas), its types and conditions;
(f) knowledge of ones own society and of public interest (maslahah);
(g) knowing the general objectives (maqasid) of the Shariah;
(h) a high degree of intelligence and personal piety, combined with the Islamic virtues of compassion, courtesy, and modesty.
A scholar who has fulfilled these conditions can be considered a mujtahid fil-shar, and is not obliged, or even permitted, to follow an existing authoritative madhhab. This is what some of the Imams were saying when they forbade their great disciples from imitating them uncritically. But for the much greater number of scholars whose expertise has not reached such dizzying heights, it may be possible to become a mujtahid fil-madhhab, that is, a scholar who remains broadly convinced of the doctrines of his school, but is qualified to differ from received opinion within it. There have been a number of examples of such men, for instance Imam al-Nawawi among the Shafi'is, Qadi Ibn Abd al-Barr among the Malikis, Ibn Abidin among the Hanafis, and Ibn Qudama among the Hanbalis. All of these scholars considered themselves followers of the fundamental interpretative principles of their own madhhabs, but are on record as having exercised their own gifts of scholarship and judgement in reaching many new verdicts within them. It is to these experts that the Mujtahid Imams directed their advice concerning ijtihad, such as Imam al-Shafi'i's instruction that if you find a hadith that contradicts my verdict, then follow the hadith. It is obvious that whatever some writers nowadays like to believe, such counsels were never intended for use by the Islamically-uneducated masses.
Other categories of mujtahids are listed by the usul scholars; but the distinctions between them are subtle and not relevant to our theme. The remaining categories can in practice be reduced to two: the muttabi (follower), who follows his madhhab while being aware of the Quranic and hadith texts and the reasoning, underlying its positions, and secondly the muqallid (emulator), who simply conforms to the madhhab because of his confidence in its scholars, and without necessarily knowing the detailed reasoning behind all its thousands of rulings. |
|
usmani790
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Wednesday, March 14, 2007 - 10:28 AM
Brother Raushan,
Quote:-So the criterian for opposing is not right or wrong but just going against the earlier scholars.Is that so,brother usmani.
It is not the matter of right or wrong it is that who is qualified to to extract the matters of shariah from the main sources.Some times there is no clear instrutions in the main sources for even a scholar to decide any matter.Please also see the following I have copied it from an article.
This obvious duty was well-known to the early Muslims: the Caliph Umar (r.a.) followed certain rulings of Abu Bakr (r.a.), saying I would be ashamed before God to differ from the view of Abu Bakr. And Ibn Masud (r.a.), in turn, despite being a mujtahid in the fullest sense, used in certain issues to follow Umar (r.a.). According to al-Shabi: Six of the Companions of the Prophet (pbuh) used to give fatwas to the people: Ibn Masud, Umar ibn al-Khattab, Ali, Zayd ibn Thabit, Ubayy ibn Kab, and Abu Musa (al-Ashari). And out of these, three would abandon their own judgements in favour of the judgements of three others: Abdallah (ibn Masud) would abandon his own judgement for the judgement of Umar, Abu Musa would abandon his own judgement for the judgement of Ali, and Zayd would abandon his own judgement for the judgement of Ubayy ibn Kab. |
|
salmant
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Wednesday, March 14, 2007 - 12:05 PM
Thank you Brother Usmani for sharing some useful extracts on 'Ijtihad' and 'Mujtahid'.
I think there is a need to separate two things that are being said at the same time:
1) Drawing out legal directives, or research in other academic issues, from the original sources (i.e. Quran & Sunnah), and in that possibly differing from the established scholars.
2) Understanding the message broadly, and testing the available opinions of Islam on the criterion of Quran & Sunnah.
You are absolutely right, for point number 1) the requirements that you have quoted are essiential. However for 2), had it been necessary to go through that list of qualifications, The Prophet (sws) would have himself suggested us to be a Muttabi or Muqallid. But did he?. No he did not. Instead he told not to make your scholars your Lords. And Quran kept asking 'for pondering'. Both these facts mean that, for 2) basic reasoning skills of a common man suffice. As I wrote earlier, 2) was the assumption & motivation behind Maududi's Tafseer & Translation as well. |
|
salmant
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Wednesday, March 14, 2007 - 12:50 PM
| Can I get reference/link of the full article, Brother Usmani? Thanks Salman |
|
raushan
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
|
Posted - Wednesday, March 14, 2007 - 1:36 PM
quote:
It is not the matter of right or wrong it is that who is qualified to to extract the matters of shariah from the main sources.Some times there is no clear instrutions in the main sources for even a scholar to decide any matter.Please also see the following I have copied it from an article.
This obvious duty was well-known to the early Muslims: the Caliph Umar (r.a.) followed certain rulings of Abu Bakr (r.a.), saying I would be ashamed before God to differ from the view of Abu Bakr. And Ibn Masud (r.a.), in turn, despite being a mujtahid in the fullest sense, used in certain issues to follow Umar (r.a.). According to al-Shabi: Six of the Companions of the Prophet (pbuh) used to give fatwas to the people: Ibn Masud, Umar ibn al-Khattab, Ali, Zayd ibn Thabit, Ubayy ibn Kab, and Abu Musa (al-Ashari). And out of these, three would abandon their own judgements in favour of the judgements of three others: Abdallah (ibn Masud) would abandon his own judgement for the judgement of Umar, Abu Musa would abandon his own judgement for the judgement of Ali, and Zayd would abandon his own judgement for the judgement of Ubayy ibn Kab.
Let me conclude it as:If there is no clear cut instruction in the main sources then we should welcome others opinion given on the same issue and if required one should abandon his own point of view and follow other's .
In other words ,the lesson from the text you quoted here is that we should respect other's views .we should be ready not only to accept but also to follow.
And the last but not least is to honour other's opinions instead of humiliating them declaring "deviant"or "anti islamic" only because our opinion is not matching to others. |
|
salmant
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Wednesday, March 14, 2007 - 1:39 PM
Quote: And the last but not least is to honour other's opinions instead of humiliating them declaring "deviant"or "anti islamic" only because our opinion is not matching to others.
Reply: And calling them, "scheme for destruction of Islam" as well... |
|
usmani790
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Wednesday, March 14, 2007 - 7:57 PM
I am unable to understand why both of you still supporting people whom with no daught deviating from the relogion.Its not just my self saying but person like Maudoodi sahib said it in his Tafheem.Forget about the Traditonal's scholars views.Don't you remember What Maudoodi sahib said for category "d"
After evry thing is already shown in black and white to you people,what is the problem now? |
|
usmani790
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 4:32 AM
|
 Reply to Topic 
Printer Friendly |
| Jump To: |
|
|
|