| Author | Topic |
rishadrizvi
INDIA
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 Posted - Thursday, June 21, 2007 - 9:25 PM 
| Thanks for the link brother. |
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zkimam
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Thursday, June 21, 2007 - 11:17 PM
| It was really nice reading through all the different discussions in the forum, that link says it all, there is no way Islam could accept such a ridiculous idea as Mutah. |
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rishadrizvi
INDIA
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Posted - Saturday, June 23, 2007 - 2:18 AM
As I was searching for the material on Muta I came across an article which shocked me!
Its hard to believe that any religion would preach debauchery, Lie, deceiet and malice!!
I have friends who belong to that sect but they are all nice, educated and decent people.
Apart from other shocking and unbelieveable things in this article this is what it said about Muta.
(Only Allah knows if its true although references to their various religious texts are given in the end!)
MUTA
1.) "It is disliked but permissable to have Mutah with a prostitute, especially( it will be more enjoyable) if she is famous for her prostitution."
2.)One time 'Muta' reward is Jannat.
3.)When the couple sit in Solitude, angels protect them.
4.)Their Speech is Tasbeeh .
5.)When they touch hands, sins fall from their fingers.
6.)When they Kiss, reward of Hajj and Umrah for both.
7.)On bathing - every drop from each hair brings reward of 10 Thawabs, 10 sins drop, stages raised by 10 fold.
8.)From every drop of water, angels created to make Tasbeeh till Qiyaamat.
9.)'Muta' with believing women is like 70 times journey to Ka'aba.
10.) Contractors of 'Muta' will cross the 'Pul Siraat' like a flash of lightning.
11.) After making muta Once - The stage of Hussain is reached. After making muta twice - The stage of Hasan is reached. After making muta thrice- The stage of Ali is reached. After making Muta Fourth- The satge of Rasulullaah (s.a.w) is reached
References:
(1.) Tahrirul Wasillah Vol-2 P292. (2.) Ujul - e- Hasana P15. (4.) Ibid.( 5.) Ibid.( 6.) Ibid. (7.) Ibid. (8.) Ibid. (9.) Ujul - e- Hasana P16.(10.) Ujul - e- Hasana P17. (11.) Tafseer Mianjajus Sadiqeen 1:356.
________________________________________
A book by the title "Khomeini, Iranian revolution and the Shi'ite Faith" by Mohammad Manzoor Nomani has this incident which could be helpful in further appreciation of the reality of Muta.
'Mohammad bin Muslim ( a sincere Shi'ite disciple of Imam Jafar Sadiq) himself narrated that "I saw a dream which I related to Hazrat Imam Jafar Sadiq and desired its interpretation...
Hazrat Imam Jafar gave this interpretation......'You will do Muta with some woman, but your wife will get to know about it and she will pounce upon you and tear your clothes .....'"
Mohammad bin Muslim further states: " It was the day of Friday and in the morning of it Hazrat Imam Jafar had given this Interpretation. In the afternoon it so happened that I was sitting at my door when a girl, who looked very sweet, passed by. I told my slave to call her. I did Muta with her. Somehow my wife came to know about it and she rushed into the room. The girl ran away leaving me alone. My wife tore to pieces the fine clothes I was wearing which I used to wear on a festival like Id."1
Ref#1 Kitab-ur-Rauza; p.137 |
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Mujahid
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Sunday, June 24, 2007 - 1:54 AM
I learned from an ex Iranian Shia scholar who now lives in the UK that the way some families practice Muta’h in Iran is by allowing a boy and a girl who want to marry each other to live together for a year or two like boyfriend/girlfriend relationship in the west.According to him majority of Iranians neither practices it nor likes it.He says If you ask an Iranian shia that you want to do Muta’h with his sister he will kill you.However,there are centres in Iran like the shrine of Ali Ibn musa bin Reza(grandson of Imam Jaffar Sadiq)in Mashad and shrine of his sister in Qum where women can be found to do Muta’h or men who arrange muta'h for women.
May Allah show our shia brothers and sisters the obvious filth in this practice.How is it different from prostitution?
Brother RishadRizvi,I have confirmed from the same shia scholar that all the references given in your mail are correct and are mostly from their Ahadith books.
Mujahid Zaheer |
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rishadrizvi
INDIA
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Posted - Sunday, June 24, 2007 - 3:21 PM
Brother Mujahid, thanks for the confirmation.
Rishad |
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perv1
UNITED KINGDOM
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 Posted - Sunday, June 24, 2007 - 4:53 PM
AOA Mujahid
quote:
Brother RishadRizvi,I have confirmed from the same shia scholar that all the references given in your mail are correct and are mostly from their Ahadith books.
& Unfortunately majority of Muslims still believe that despite the obvious filth in hadith they are somehow integral part of Islam.
regards |
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Nida_e_Khair
PAKISTAN
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 Posted - Monday, June 25, 2007 - 4:13 AM
quote:
quote:
Raushan, are you a Shee'ah?
I am a muslim without any prefix or suffix .Alhamdulillah
Edited by: raushan on Tuesday, June 19, 2007 9:35 AM
Good. I like that. |
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waseem
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Monday, June 25, 2007 - 8:01 PM
& Unfortunately majority of Muslims still believe that despite the obvious filth in hadith they are somehow integral part of Islam.
In your opinion the entire corpus of hadith is filth? |
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perv1
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Monday, June 25, 2007 - 11:42 PM
quote:
In your opinion the entire corpus of hadith is filth?
So what is your opinion of a body of litersture which portrays the prophet, via whom the Quran was conveyed, as a sexually deviant, cruel, paedopile amongst host of many other unpleasent untruths including legalising prostitution as being discussed in this thread. |
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Mujahid
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 12:42 AM
WOA,perv1,
Please,rest assured that i am not a blind follower of any scholar present or past.I have understood religion putting in a lot of sincere efforts in it as a very ordinary muslim.I am only writing the conclusions of how i have understood the basics.I am still very open minded and prepared to submit to the truth whereever and whenever it is presented to me.
I partly agree with your opinion.Ahadith cannot be considered as an original source of islam.The inherent weaknesses in it are very obvious.It is the unshakable Quran&the Established sunnah of the prophet pbuh which forms the integral part of Islam, the transmission of which is something the world has never experienced before.Anyone who knows the approach being promoted on this site is well familiar with this transmission.
Having said that when seen under the light of Quran and sunnah there is a lot of guidance one can derive from Ahadith.Just because of some narrator's unintentional or intentional interpolation of the text the whole discipline cannot be considered as fruitless.
As an ordinary muslim i have spent hours and hours to understand the issue and Alhamdolill'Allah i can now say that i have managed to get to the bottom of it only through the approach being promoted by this website.
Javaid Ahmad Ghamidhi's services in separating sunnah from hadith are unprecedented and quite remarkable.
regards
Mujahid |
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waseem
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 6:15 PM
So what is your opinion of a body of litersture which portrays the prophet, via whom the Quran was conveyed, as a sexually deviant, cruel, paedopile amongst host of many other unpleasent untruths including legalising prostitution as being discussed in this thread.
Does every hadith potrays religion as such? |
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perv1
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 9:21 PM
AOA Mujahid
quote:
Please,rest assured that i am not a blind follower of any scholar present or past
Nice to hear this but I made no comment on you following any scholar
quote:
I have understood religion putting in a lot of sincere efforts in it as a very ordinary muslim.I am only writing the conclusions of how i have understood the basics.
Thats fine my friend as each one of us has to reach his/her own conclusions.
quote:
I am still very open minded and prepared to submit to the truth whereever and whenever it is presented to me
nice to hear.
quote:
partly agree with your opinion.Ahadith cannot be considered as an original source of islam.The inherent weaknesses in it are very obvious.
Hopefully one day you will fully agree with me.
quote:
It is the unshakable Quran&the Established sunnah of the prophet pbuh which forms the integral part of Islam, the transmission of which is something the world has never experienced before
I also partly agree with you about the Quran bit but the Sunnah bit has no basis from the Quran or makes any logical or intellectual sense but then each one of us to satisfy our own logic and intellect just as the Quran tells us to.
quote:
Having said that when seen under the light of Quran and sunnah there is a lot of guidance one can derive from Ahadith.
If you wish to take your guidance from hadith then that is your progative.
quote:
Just because of some narrator's unintentional or intentional interpolation of the text the whole discipline cannot be considered as fruitless.
We are not discussing some manual or literature that we can ignore the rubbish and concentrate on the good bits only. The hadith have become an integral part of Islam and the only goodness they have brought is to the enemies of islam by portraying it as an evil. illogical and contradictory religion ( if you wish i can provide you with countless examples). Accepting some hadith and rejecting others is bit like saying I believe in part of but not all of God.
quote:
As an ordinary muslim i have spent hours and hours to understand the issue and Alhamdolill'Allah i can now say that i have managed to get to the bottom of it only through the approach being promoted by this website.
I am glad for you.
quote:
Javaid Ahmad Ghamidhi's services in separating sunnah from hadith are unprecedented and quite remarkable.
I am afraid i dont share your high opinion of him. I find his work contradictory and intellectually very weak.
Regards |
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perv1
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Tuesday, June 26, 2007 - 9:33 PM
AOA
quote:
Does every hadith potrays religion as such?
Whether every hadith does so or not is irrellevent. If they are part of the faith then the tiniest of faults either means that the faith has no Godly basis or they have no true connection to the faith to which they have become attatched.
Would you have accepted the mesage from a prophet if you knew him to be a cruel, contradictory man even though he had many other good qualities. As this is the same logic you are applying to hadith.
So what role do you see for hadith. An unambiguos answer will be appreciated.
regards |
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waseem
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 3:22 AM
| The Qur'an and the Sunnah hold a pivotal place as the source of understanding of religion. The Sunnah and the Qur'an do not abrogate each other. They cannot be overruled by Hadith. Both these sources contain the entire religion. Hadith can thus explain these sources or provide the best example set by the Holy Prophet (pbuh); it cannot abrogate or contradict the basic corpus of religion residing in the Qur'an and the Sunnah. Hadith literature does not add to the content of religion; it offers an explanation of the Holy Qur'an and the Sunnah, and dictates sense and reason. |
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Mujahid
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Wednesday, June 27, 2007 - 7:08 PM
AOA Perv 1,Since I am new to the forum I am not familiar with many participant’s beliefs.In order to have a fruitful discussion with you it would be very useful to know your approach towards understanding islam. As far as I am concerned I consider Quran as the law giver and sunnah as the practice giver. The entire religion of islam is contained in these two disciplines.As far as Hadith is considered I don’t consider it as an integral part of Islam. It is absolutely evident that Ahadith do not add to the contents of religion stated in the Quran and Sunnah. In technical terms, they do not add any article of faith or any deed to religion. In other words, it is outside the scope of Ahadith to give an independent directive not covered by the Quran and Sunnah. I firmly believe that the entire religion was completed during the life of prophet pbuh as mentioned in surah Maidah verse 3.However, this is also a reality that the Hadith literature is the largest and most important source which records the biography, history and the exemplary life of the Prophet Muhaammad pbuh as well as his invaluable explanations of various issues of religion. Thus it occupies such great importance that no student of religion can ignore it.
Having explained my views on islam can I ask you most humbly how do you understand islam? To start with I have only got two questions for you;
1-What are your sources of islam?
2-Where do you derive the practices of Islam like salah,zakah,hajj etc etc……
Once I know how you understand islam I think we would be in a better position to discuss the issue further.I would leave it with you whether you want to give brief or detailed answers.
Regarding Ghamidhi’s work you write;
“I am afraid i dont share your high opinion of him. I find his work contradictory and intellectually very weak”.
I fully respect your views on Ghamidhi's work which i am sure would be based on sound reasoning.Please do me a big favour by pointing out only a few contradictions and weaknesses in Ghamidhi’s research.Afterall it is not Ghamidhi that I have to submit to.It is the truth that we all should strive for and submit to in this life.This in my view is the real meaning of the word ‘ISLAM’(submission to truth).
Regards
Mujahid |
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perv1
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Thursday, June 28, 2007 - 12:02 AM
AOA Mujhad
I think it would be very enlighting to discuss with you in length and more detail. Unfortunately my other commitments allow me very little time therefore I often cannot add much meat to the skeleton of my arguement.
Perhaps we can discuss this in depth when ever we meet in Stalybridge again.
just to briefly answer some of your point.
My source of religion is what God has calimed to be complete and fully detailed & it also forms my practice in religion (this however is too complex a subject which I think is beyond this site)
As for Mr Ghamdi the entire approach of sunnah and hadith issue is contradictory and no Quranic basis.
AS you have said My goal is also to try to search for the truth and not let any preconcieved prejudices act as hinderance to this objective.
I am afriad i will probablynot be able to respond to you for a while.
regards |
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