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aboosait
INDIA
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 Posted - Saturday, April 17, 2010 - 12:51 PM 
quote:
Dear Aboosait,
......But, my question is again same... Does that make a NEW Religion?.....
What do you mean by "Religion"?
The term "religion" refers both to the personal practices related to communal faith and to group rituals and communication stemming from shared conviction. "Religion" is sometimes used interchangeably with "faith" or "belief system," but it is more socially defined than personal convictions, and it entails specific behaviors, respectively.
The development of religion has taken many forms in various cultures, with continental differences. |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Saturday, April 17, 2010 - 3:06 PM
quote:
... but what about Sunni , Wahabi, shia and so on....
To begin the discussion I invite you to define the above 3 in brief.
Please start a new thread on each.
Edited by: aboosait on Saturday, April 17, 2010 3:07 PM |
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hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Saturday, April 17, 2010 - 9:14 PM
may be jvd sb is personally too strong and very good at controlling his anger and emotions. a common muslim may benefit from sufism if academics only not helping them.
everyone is different and different styles may work for them as a support. but the problem is that people tend to mix things with the religion, may be therefore some scholars keep it clear very strictly as it then becomes the Ulema's responsibility regarding innovations and stuff like that.
however as mentioned before many people entered islam on sufis' hands in the subcontinent. like nowadays large grups of people are following shri shri shankar in india for his spiritual project' art of life' .
humans keep wondering for outlets from stresses of life. it's upto the knowledgeable people what they present to them. |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Sunday, April 18, 2010 - 6:11 AM
quote:
......many people entered islam on sufis' hands in the subcontinent...........
And the reason is quite clear as I mentioned earlier,
quote:
Sufism is so similar to other religions, and very tolerant of them, that a change to Sufism does not involve a complete change of life, as Islam requires.
So Buddhists, Sikhs, Taoists and mystic Jews and Christians looking for an easy alternative find solace in Sufism.
The proof for this is in my own ancestors, May Allah forgive them.
They were Memons who migrated from Kutch to the then Indian state of Travancore on the advice of their Sufi Masters.
I learnt from my mother that these memons had opted for Hindu Law whereas the native Malabari Muslims were following Islamic Law (What the Angrez called as Mohammedan Law). It is less than a century since we understood our mistake and gradually reverted to the Qur'an and Sunnah Alhamdulillah. |
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atifrafi
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Monday, April 19, 2010 - 6:43 AM
Dear Aboosait,
I am sorry but I can't start new threads now, specially about sects as I really Don't want to be a part of useless discussion.
Just ONE point as my last message in this thread:
(For the sake of Argument only) I agree that SUFISM has some beliefs and faiths against Islam (According to you), but Was it better for your ancestors to remain HINDU or to accept Islam?
Just think with a cool mind... if they had not accepted Islam, would you be a MUSLIM today ?
Its very easy to simply forget the favours from someone... Isn't it?
Just to add the list of miracles by Sufis... I have been cured Twice from very serious illnesses for which Medical Science has NO Cure. I have a long list of such personally observed miracles, But I don't want to start new discussion :)
Edited by: atifrafi on Monday, April 19, 2010 6:46 AM |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Monday, April 19, 2010 - 12:10 PM
quote:
....but Was it better for your ancestors to remain HINDU or to accept Islam? .........
Jazakallahu khair. Thanks for reminding me of that.
But, just think, wouldnt it have been better for them if they had accepted all the teachings of Islam?
Edited by: aboosait on Monday, April 19, 2010 12:13 PM |
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atifrafi
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Monday, April 19, 2010 - 12:51 PM
quote:
But, just think, wouldnt it have been better for them if they had accepted all the teachings of Islam?
The fact is:
1. They converted to Islam only because of some SUFI.
2. According to you, they did not Follow Complete Islam BUT still at least they accepted the TRUTH
3. According to you, you are following COmplete Islam.... Only because of One Reason....
4. How Many non-muslims have been converted by the traditional Scholars??? |
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shehzads
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Monday, April 19, 2010 - 1:59 PM
We find some people and religious scholars so much against Sufism because Sufism mostly addresses to one's emotional and spiritual needs and less so to logic and understanding. Today most Muslims are living on 'Emotional Islam' therefore we all have become very weak from within. We can die for the name of Muhammad SAW but cannot sell pure Masalah in the market without mixing sawdust in it because our faith is not strong or aware enough to reassure us that whether the money I get by selling the pure ingredients will be enough for my children.
In order to be Muslims having good and strong characters and conduct which is the essence of Islam, we must read and understand it just like we try to read and understand other subjects. |
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atifrafi
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Tuesday, April 20, 2010 - 5:57 AM
Dear Shehzad,
Thanks for your input. I agree with you that today Muslims are indulged in almost every kind of wrong doings BUT I don't think this restricted to any particular group.... This is a Universal Truth for All Muslims all around the world. What you say ? |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Tuesday, April 20, 2010 - 3:21 PM
quote:
...... wrong doings ..... I don't think this restricted to any particular group.... .What you say ?
Sufism is not just an emphasis on the purification of the soul but a complete ideology in itself and it is marred by un-Islamic concepts and philosophies like:-
1. The belief of Wahdat al-Wajood, which implies that the Creator (Allah) and the creation are one, and the creation is just the manifestation of the Creator.
2. The belief that the Prophets and the Sufi saints are alive in their graves, just as they were alive in this world. They are fully aware of the outside world; they can communicate with the living and help those who call upon them.
3. The spirits (Ruh) of the righteous comes back from the Barzakh.
4. Gross exaggeration in praising the Messenger of Allah (sallallahu alaihi wa-sallam) whilst neglecting his (sallallahu alaihi wa-sallam) teachings in understanding the religion.
5. Total and complete obedience to a Sufi Shaikh.
6. Penance and living the lives of hermits are ways to get closer to Allah.
7. Some Majzoobs, who have reached the goal of Sufism, run the affairs of the creation.[Moulana Zakariyah says: “According to some Ulema, he (Shaikh Ibnul Hamaam Hanafee) was among the Abdal (the Deobandi translator says Abdaal are a class of Awliya whose identities remain concealed. They possess miraculous powers and execute a variety of tasks under Divine Command in various places of the world). [Ikhmaalush Shiyaam (Eng. Trans.) p.59.]
Extremist Sufis have even more deviated beliefs, |
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atifrafi
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Wednesday, April 21, 2010 - 9:25 AM
Dear Aboosait,
I have to agree that this time you have presented some very Solid Points BUT my point is again same: Does all this concludes in the fact that the SUFIS are following some "matawazi deen" ( Alternate religion ). Just for an example, Shia have added a verse in the KALIMA itself but still we call them Muslims...
Please note that my point of discussion was only about the statement of this Alternative Religion.
As I have stated earlier, I don't want to start discussion on these sectarian issues, so I won't comment on any of your point.
Edited by: atifrafi on Wednesday, April 21, 2010 9:26 AM |
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hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Wednesday, April 21, 2010 - 9:32 AM
quite obviously for a Muslim, whatever is not found in the teachings of Qur'an and Sunnah~ is a matawazi deen.
let us see if there is anything in Qura'n and the prophet's sws practices that supports Sufism. for e.g. some people may say that the prophet's sws meditation in Hira could support Sufism.? but was it not before he rcvd the Revelation of Islam? |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Wednesday, April 21, 2010 - 2:11 PM
quote:
.......... some people may say that the prophet's sws meditation in Hira could support Sufism.? but was it not before he rcvd the Revelation of Islam?
Yes. After the qur'an was revealed he never retreated for such meditation. Neither is there any record of the Sahaba sitting in secluded meditation that way. |
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atifrafi
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Thursday, April 22, 2010 - 8:11 AM
Respected Members,
sitting in secluded meditation is not mentioned in Quran. I have 2 questions about the Prophet's sws meditation in Hira:
1. I believe that a Prophethood cannot be EARNED by ANY means... A Prophet is a Prophet by birth. Take Example of Jesus Christ.
Also, we cannot find even a SINGLE act in whole life of the Prophet Muhammad (sws) which goes against the Abrahamic Religion like His HAJJ before revelation, He never Drink Alcohol etc... How can I agree that he was involved in ONE act against Shariah...
2. No One Claims that this Meditation is COMPULSORY for muslims... Even if it WRONG, Maximum you can say is that they are indulged in some wrong doing ( Which is due to a misconception )... Matwazi Deen is still a very STRONG Allegation
My earlier question is still un-answered:
Either Announce Different Sects like Shias as a Matwaazi Deen or don't say this to anyone.
To be Honest, this was a VERY BIG shock for me when I read that Ghamidi Sb has said so because as far as I know him he NEVER used such STRONG words for ANYONE...
Ghamidi Sb NEVER used these kind of words even for QADIANIS... he used to call them MAXIMUM as another SECT of ISLAM... I am really surprised that QADIANIS are Just a Sect and SUFIS are following a Matwazi Deen... Cannot Understand this at all
Edited by: atifrafi on Thursday, April 22, 2010 8:17 AM |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Thursday, April 22, 2010 - 4:29 PM
quote:
......I am really surprised that QADIANIS are Just a Sect and SUFIS "are following a Matwazi Deen"... Cannot Understand this at all...
It is not only Shaikh Gamidi who says that. See the following quotes:
quote:
"Sufism is basically a religion....."
Source:
http://www.iloveindia.com/history/medieval-india/sufism.html
quote:
...... In Sind at the present moment, there are numerous Hindus and amongst them some of the best brains of Sind, old and new, who are Sufis by religion. In fact, throughout Sind, the Hindu Amils are atached to the chief centres of the Sufis, and are the main supporters and advisers of the holders of the Gadi.......
Source:
http://www.sikhphilosophy.net/islam/1739-sikhism-and-sufism.html
quote:
... The religion of Sind is Sikhism and Sufism.....
Source:
http://www.freesindh.org/sufis/Sufi_Culture.html
Edited by: aboosait on Thursday, April 22, 2010 5:09 PM |
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atifrafi
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, April 23, 2010 - 6:01 AM
quote:
It is not only Shaikh Gamidi who says that
Where I said that it is only Ghamidi Sb who used these words for SUFIS...
You are trying to Twist my whole point....
Point is WHY QADIANIS and others are ONLY a SECT and SUFIS are following MATWAZI DEEN ???
My other questions are also un-answered.
Edited by: atifrafi on Friday, April 23, 2010 6:01 AM |
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