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Malix
UNITED KINGDOM
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 Topic initiated on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 - 5:22 PM 
Can a Muslim Woman Lead a Friday pray?
Can a Muslim Woman Lead a Public Mixed-Gender Friday Prayer ?
It was reported that in American muslimah lead the Juma, the friday pray!
i have received this email
It was reported in Sharq-al-Ausat newspaper that next Friday there will be a Friday prayer with a mixed congregation of men and women, led by a woman. What are your comments on this?
Answer:
By Allah, if the people have reached this level – if the people have lowered themselves to this level, this is evil upon evil. A woman is not permitted to lead a man in prayers. If a woman has reached a level where she desires to lead men and women in prayers, it should be known that her purpose and the purpose of her followers in doing this is not to bring good, rather it is to wage war against Allah and His Messenger. They have not established this Friday prayer except as a stubborn rejection of the truth, and an invitation to evil, and a deterrent from the teachings of Islam. It has not been recorded in Islamic history that a woman led men in prayers, and it was never done. So how can these people come and establish a Friday prayer with men and women mixed together, and a woman leading the prayer? This is in reality a most repulsive matter, and it is evil upon evil. The people who wish to establish this only want, as Allah mentioned:
(translation of the meaning) “And as for those who put up a mosque by way of harming and disbelief, and to disunite the believers, and as an outpost for those who warred against Allâh and His Messenger aforetime.†(At-Tawbah 9:107)
This Friday prayer is invalid, and it is not permissible for a Muslim to attend it.
ny commnets?
SALAM
Edited by: Malix on Tuesday, March 22, 2005 8:45 PM |
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oosman
USA
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Posted - Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 7:04 AM 
| I have not done hajj but I am wondering if men and women are segregated or not during hajj. |
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AmrBassiouny
HONG KONG
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Posted - Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 8:47 AM
That guy who replied to you sounds very much like an extremist. I bet he thinks that TV is the "devil's box" as well.
I don't think there is anything wrong with it. |
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Malix
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Wednesday, March 23, 2005 - 2:26 PM
Salam Bro Amr
this is y i m asking u, have you ever heard or got any proof that a woman can lead a Juma pray? esp. when dere is both male n female under a masjid?
and if so then can you plese kindly send it bcoz i know its very easy to put 1s view across sometimes without proof! :)
tc
SALAM |
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AmrBassiouny
HONG KONG
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Posted - Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 5:18 AM
quote:
Salam Bro Amr
this is y i m asking u, have you ever heard or got any proof that a woman can lead a Juma pray? esp. when dere is both male n female under a masjid?
and if so then can you plese kindly send it bcoz i know its very easy to put 1s view across sometimes without proof! :)
tc
SALAM
There is no proof that a woman CANNOT lead a prayer. Everything i've come across just mentions that men SHOULD lead the prayer. It doesn't say that men MUST lead the prayer, or that women MUSN'T lead the prayer. Should makes it mostahab, and must makes it fard. This issue is mostahab and gheir mostahab, not fard and haram. |
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Malix
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Thursday, March 24, 2005 - 1:21 PM
Salam
"Everything i've come across just mentions that men SHOULD lead the prayer."
Isnt dis debatable that through out our exsistence there is no proof that a woman as not lead da pray where both male n female r under da same masjid!So y now?
There r mny things that did not appen at that time so r u sayn dat its OK now 2 go ahead n do dem as its not haram or halal?
The argumnt is not bout Haram or Halal, its bout wot v shuld b folowing n not bendin it 2 suit our means!
Also!
"There is no proof that a woman CANNOT lead a prayer."
Then could u plz tll me where it does say a woman CAN lead the pray n not twist it 2 can or cant argumnt!
JAZAKALLAH KAHIR
Edited by: Malix on Thursday, March 24, 2005 1:23 PM |
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AmrBassiouny
HONG KONG
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Posted - Friday, March 25, 2005 - 4:54 PM
quote:
Isnt dis debatable that through out our exsistence there is no proof that a woman as not lead da pray where both male n female r under da same masjid!So y now?
Nobody ever used to put wheels on their bags, which make our lives easier...should we not put whells on our bags just because nobody did it before? What are we, sheep?
quote:
There r mny things that did not appen at that time so r u sayn dat its OK now 2 go ahead n do dem as its not haram or halal?
Haram and Hallal follows more logic than it does repitition. Haram is something which causes harm, and hallal is something which causes good.
Can you logically convince any normal human being that a woman leading prayer will cause any harm?
quote:
The argumnt is not bout Haram or Halal, its bout wot v shuld b folowing n not bendin it 2 suit our means!
Bending what? There is nothing originally there for us to bend. It's a new idea without any previous rules. If there was an original rule which was clear, then you could bend it. But there is no rule on this and it is not clear. So we can work within the boundaries of ijtihad and as long as there is no harm, then there is nothing haram in it.
quote:
Also!
"There is no proof that a woman CANNOT lead a prayer."
Then could u plz tll me where it does say a woman CAN lead the pray n not twist it 2 can or cant argumnt!
JAZAKALLAH KAHIR
OK, here is what we have:
- The prophet used to lead prayers.
- If he wasn't there, and after he died, he said that Omar Ibn Il Khattab should lead the prayers.
Now, all that we can derive here is the following:
1) if the prophet is here, he should lead the prayer
2) If the prophet isn't here, the most knowledgable man, or the best Muslim within us, should lead the prayer.
There is no reference to gender preferance. |
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Malix
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Friday, March 25, 2005 - 6:45 PM
Salam
dis is da articl 4m da othr topic but it covers da grounds!
Regarding the women's Imamah in Salah (prayer) she can lead congregational prayers of women only. It is not permissible for a woman to lead prayer of mixed gender congregation, even if the congregation allows her. Did ‘Ai’sha (R.A) ever lead a mixed gender congregation? The answer is no, she did not. Not while the Prophet (Salla Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam) was alive and not after he died. ‘Ai’sha (R.A) had led some women in jama’at (congregation) but that she stood in the middle of the row, not in front of it.
This hadith gives clear justification for women's Imamah for women only and rejects her Imamah to mixed gender. If ‘Ai’sha(R.A) like women, the Mother of the Believers and the best woman of creation, did not lead men in prayer then how should 21century women lead men in prayers? Is she think herself superior than ‘Ai’sha(R.A)? Does she feel that she has been cheated or made inferior and that the only way to be intellectually and spiritually equal to men is to claim her leadership in Salah? Why not she feels superiority in giving child birth which is much more important emotionally physically and spiritually than leading congregational prayers? It is actually she who gives birth of Imam. In my opinion her Imamah of mixed gender congregation will change nothing except disorders balance in the Ummah. Instead of this if she use her sincere intentions, correct knowledge of islam and right conduct to make her child Imam that will certainly solve problem that matters in the world. She should look at Fatima (R.A), daughter of the Prophet (Salla Allahu ‘alayhi wa sallam), for an example. |
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Malix
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Friday, March 25, 2005 - 6:49 PM
"OK, here is what we have:
- The prophet used to lead prayers.
- If he wasn't there, and after he died, he said that Omar Ibn Il Khattab should lead the prayers.
Now, all that we can derive here is the following:
1) if the prophet is here, he should lead the prayer
2) If the prophet isn't here, the most knowledgable man, or the best Muslim within us, should lead the prayer."
Prophet(saw) culd ave also said a woman;s name but did he? u can also derive that 4m dis aswell!
n corct me if i m rong! wasnt it Prophet(saw) who said dat a perfct muslimah is da 1 hence da fact a perfct female is da 1 who shuld not draw intention n shuld lower her gaze n not raise her voice so a men wont luk at her?
but if she goes out dere n strts 2 lead da juma pray wont dat b attrcting attention? n lets not b naive n dont tll me dat every1 in dat masjid r concentrting in dere SALAH?
Edited by: Malix on Friday, March 25, 2005 6:52 PM
Edited by: Malix on Friday, March 25, 2005 7:02 PM |
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AmrBassiouny
HONG KONG
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Posted - Saturday, March 26, 2005 - 7:50 AM
quote:
Prophet(saw) culd ave also said a woman;s name but did he? u can also derive that 4m dis aswell!
Exactly, he didn't. He didn't say anything about women. Which leaves a question mark as to whether it is hallal, haram, recommended, not recommended or just permissible.
quote:
n corct me if i m rong! wasnt it Prophet(saw) who said dat a perfct muslimah is da 1 hence da fact a perfct female is da 1 who shuld not draw intention n shuld lower her gaze n not raise her voice so a men wont luk at her?
but if she goes out dere n strts 2 lead da juma pray wont dat b attrcting attention? n lets not b naive n dont tll me dat every1 in dat masjid r concentrting in dere SALAH?
This is social etiquette. Women should dress modestly and so should men. Both men and women as well have to lowe their gaze. As long as the woman fulfills her duty in social etiquette, and dresses modestly, then there is nothing to stop her from interacting in public with men. Then if the men do not lower their gaze, it is their own fault, not hers.
Don't shift the blame from the men to the women, especially when the woman is doing all that God asked her to do. |
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Malix
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Saturday, March 26, 2005 - 9:48 PM
"quote:
quote:
Prophet(saw) culd ave also said a woman;s name but did he? u can also derive that 4m dis aswell!
Exactly, he didn't. He didn't say anything about women. Which leaves a question mark as to whether it is hallal, haram, recommended, not recommended or just permissible."
U r lukin at it 4m da rong way! i said Prophet (saw) wuld ave askd a woman 2 lead da prays, but did he NO!
so its not a ? bout haram or halal its bout da fact IS DERE NY PROOF OF A WOMAN LEADIN BOTH SEX IN2 PRAY and if dere is PROVE IT?
othrwise v wuld b here all day sayin 'OH ITS NOT RITEN DERE N NOT MENTIOND HENCE DA FACT ITS NOT HARAM NOR HALAL V CAN ASUME ITS OKKKKKKK! n nofink rly rong wid it.'
quote:
n corct me if i m rong! wasnt it Prophet(saw) who said dat a perfct muslimah is da 1 hence da fact a perfct female is da 1 who shuld not draw intention n shuld lower her gaze n not raise her voice so a men wont luk at her?
but if she goes out dere n strts 2 lead da juma pray wont dat b attrcting attention? n lets not b naive n dont tll me dat every1 in dat masjid r concentrting in dere SALAH?
back to da point da imam as 2 stnd infrnt of da men RITE n women ave been told 2 stnd at da back behnd men? so does it mean da women as 2 stnd infrnt of all da men inorder 2 lead da prys? n wasnt da mosque actly built 4 men?
"Don't shift the blame from the men to the women, especially when the woman is doing all that God asked her to do."
has God said, 4 a woman 2 lead da pray 4 both genders in da mosque?
n srry if i sound sexiest but i 2 m a female!
SALAM
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Mikai
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Saturday, March 26, 2005 - 9:50 PM
Asa wb everyone
I'm surprised to hear that a woman leading a mixed congregation actually happens.
I dont think there is anything wrong with a woman leading a congregation of females but for a woman to lead a congregation of men? Im not sure but it just doesnt sound right.
As long as the shariah is quiet about a woman leading women, then i think its good to do it because there are no logical reasons behind why she can't. Since she is leading women, she doesnt have to worry about her voice being a fitnah, her body being a fitnah or anything else. Whereas regards to her leading men there is that risk. Some men may get distracted by her and cant help it.
But i do see that if a woman was completely covered up and kept her voice to a more neutral level then whats the prob. The only reason i can come up with is that unfortuantely men (not all men but i guess the vast majority) have become weaker in controlling their thoughts these days and cannot help but be distracted by a female because of all the evils that are going on in this world and that are being instilled into their lives.
A man comes to the mosque to pray, to clear his thoughts and only think of Allah Swt, to some extent he will feel uncomfortabble having a female infront of him which will effect his prayers. So its just best for a woman not to lead men in prayer (shes not just doing herself a favour but the men a favour as well), unless shes leading her own family which i dont think is a prob.
Regarding the hadiths that say a man should lead in prayer, are then any hadiths that specifically say that a man should lead both men and women or does it just say that a man should lead men?
What i am trying to get at here is that as we know the Holy Qu'ran has a lot of verses that talk to the male gender when we know these verses apply to both men and women (where you simply need to replace the masculine gender with the female gender). So im assuming the same applies to hadiths too, where some hadiths that only mention the male gender apply to females too, where all u need to do is replace the masculine gender with the female. So for e.g.
A man leads men in congregation
therefore for women we should change it to:
A woman leads women in congregation
This is just a idea.
But regarding hadiths which show a man can lead men and women in prayer, i do not agree that this can be changed around where a woman can lead men and women in prayer. This is because of other hadiths i read.
Edited by: mikai on Saturday, March 26, 2005 9:58 PM |
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Malix
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Saturday, March 26, 2005 - 9:52 PM
P.s. brothr do read broWasay topic on
Imāmah of Salāh (Leadership of prayers)
mayb it will elp
SALAM |
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Malix
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Saturday, March 26, 2005 - 9:57 PM
"A man leads men in congregation
therefore for women we should change it to:
A woman leads women in congregation
This is just a idea.
But regarding hadiths which show a man can lead men and women in prayer, i do not agree that this can be changed around where a woman can lead men and women in prayer. This is because of other hadiths i read."
Salam
exctly dis is wot brothr Wasay mentiond aswell a woman 2 lead da women in pry but 4 dat da lady as 2 stnd in da midle n not infrnt!
dere r rules which need 2 b applied bcoz 4 men da imam as 2 stnd at da frnt!
n 4 da woman been a distrction well i now evil is all round us hence da fact surly dere mst b ppl who will b distrctd ovr da fact dat a woman is leadin us in2 pry n if she rly wnts 2 do it she can in women!
no1 is stopin er but my ? is can she do it 4 both male n female? |
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perv1
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Sunday, March 27, 2005 - 6:30 PM
Those men that are distracted by the female leading the prayer: Suggest they read their prayers at home, let their wives do the shopping, work or any activity which may result in them seeing a female, obviousouly we would not want them to be distracted.
Whilst we are at it, cannot have males leading a male prayer as they may distract those vulnerable about their sexuality. For who knows what this kind of distraction might lead hem to. |
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xxbasxx
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Sunday, March 27, 2005 - 7:28 PM
That guy who replied to you sounds very much like an extremist. I bet he thinks that TV is the "devil's box" as well.
I don't think there is anything wrong with it.
that cracked me up :)
and why CAN'T women lead jumma? if Aisha (RadiAllahhuanha) taught men then why cant the women of 2005 lead men in prayer?
one degree of responsibility does not mean that men are one degree better than us women and it not just them who can lead the jummah. right?
hope that helped?
Salamz
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