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lofty
UNITED KINGDOM
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 Topic initiated on Thursday, January 7, 2010 - 3:01 PM 
Sufi Miracles & Criticism
Over Christmas holidays I had the pleasure of reading Mumtaz Mufti's "Labyak" in which he mentioned some of the miracles that he observed when he went to perform Hajj along with Qudratullah Shahab. Qudratullah Shahab was an extraordinary man and his friends have also confirmed the other side to his personality where he observed paranormal things in his life. He has also written about it in last chapter of his book "Shahab Nama".
Now I am aware of the fact that Mr. Ghamidi severly criticises sufi practice and claims that these miracles are infact from devil rather than God. What proof have we got that all these extraordinary men such as Ghazali, Shah Waliullah, Qudratullah Shahab etc were actually playing in hands of Satan and all those miracles they have oberserved were not from God?
God has promised believers in Quran that Satan will not be able to lead them astray if they spend time remembering God! All these men were extremely pious, how can Satan over come them when they were spending most of their time in remembrance of God. |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Friday, January 8, 2010 - 4:47 PM 
You have made a general statementquote:
he mentioned some of the miracles that he observed .......... was an extraordinary man ...............extraordinary men such as Ghazali, Shah Waliullah, Qudratullah Shahab etc ........
Please tell us what were the miracles you are talking of and what is extraordinary about the men you are talking about?
Also please tell us which verse are you referring to when you say:
quote:
.........God has promised believers in Quran that Satan will not be able to lead them astray if they spend time remembering God! .........
Edited by: aboosait on Friday, January 08, 2010 4:48 PM |
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lofty
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Sunday, January 10, 2010 - 2:04 AM
If you can read Urdu, you should have a read of "Shahab Nama" written by Qudratullah Shahab, it is a memoir on Qudratullah's life. Qudratullah was extremely honest and upright person and I believe in every single word he has written in that book.
The book is a master piece of urdu literature, it has over one thousand pages and when I finished reading it, I wished the book was even longer. Qudratullah Shahab was guided by a spirit with the code name of ninety, he has mentioned too many paranormal things in last chapter of his book. As for the verse number, I think it's (43:36). |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Sunday, January 10, 2010 - 9:34 AM
quote:
........... Qudratullah Shahab was guided by a spirit.............
By 'spirit' I suppose you mean 'Jinn'. Iblees is also from the Jinns. The Jinns can appear before humans in different forms. We are supposed to take guidance from the Qur'an and from the teachings of the ideal human Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu ;alaihi wasallam and not from any of the spirits. Thje proof for this is in the Verse 43:37,
وَإِنَّهُمْ لَيَصُدُّونَهُمْ عَنِ السَّبِيلِ وَيَحْسَبُونَ أَنَّهُم مُّهْتَدُونَ (43:37)
43:37 (Asad) whereupon, behold, these [evil impulses] bar all such from the path [of truth], making them think that they are guided aright! -
Thus I would request you to reframe your sentence to read as "....was misguided by the spirit"
quote:
..........As for the verse number, think it's (43:36).
Please confirm and repost
Edited by: aboosait on Sunday, January 10, 2010 9:41 AM |
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safimera
CANADA
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Posted - Friday, March 19, 2010 - 2:04 PM
I think Al Mawrid team can eloborate further....
Lofty !! did not get answer and I have also same question....
I do not care about miralces...
but Ghazali, ShahwaliuAllah, and Juniad bahgdadi and many other sufi scholars are all misguided by jinns, according to Mr Ghamdi (this he said about QudaratuAllah Shahab)....
They all have "matawazi" (alternate) deen....????
Now we should consider these sufi scholars as out of deen islam and non muslim or kaafir??? |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Friday, March 19, 2010 - 5:13 PM
quote:
Lofty !! did not get answer and I have also same question....
Kindly reframe the question so that wew can understand what exactly is your point.quote:
this he said about QudaratuAllah Shahab....
Then how did you include more people along with this shahab ?
quote:
Now we should consider these sufi scholars as out of deen islam and non muslim or kaafir???
Simple. If a Muslim practices Sufism without indulging in shirk they are still eligible for Allah's forgiveness as can be learnt from the following Verses.
quote:
An-Nisa [4:48]
إِنَّ اللّهَ لاَ يَغْفِرُ أَن يُشْرَكَ بِهِ وَيَغْفِرُ مَا دُونَ ذَلِكَ لِمَن يَشَاء وَمَن يُشْرِكْ بِاللّهِ فَقَدِ افْتَرَى إِثْمًا عَظِيمًا
4:48 Allah forgiveth not that partners should be set up with Him; but He forgiveth anything else, to whom He pleaseth; to set up partners with Allah is to devise a sin Most heinous indeed.
quote:
An-Nisa [4:116]
إِنَّ اللّهَ لاَ يَغْفِرُ أَن يُشْرَكَ بِهِ وَيَغْفِرُ مَا دُونَ ذَلِكَ لِمَن يَشَاء وَمَن يُشْرِكْ بِاللّهِ فَقَدْ ضَلَّ ضَلاَلاً بَعِيدًا
4:116 Allah forgiveth not (The sin of) joining other gods with Him; but He forgiveth whom He pleaseth other sins than this: one who joins other gods with Allah, Hath strayed far, far away (from the right).
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Friday, March 19, 2010 - 6:18 PM
quote:
If you can read Urdu, you should have a read of "Shahab Nama"........
I can read Urdu, but never came across that title.
quote:
Qudratullah was extremely honest and upright person
How do you know him? |
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hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Friday, March 19, 2010 - 7:35 PM
basically sufism originates from monkism, this is why prophet Muhammad sws discouraged it. a sahabi (may Allah be pleased with him~uncle aboo will know his name) expreseed once that he would stand in worship all night and would not sleep, fast all year long and would not intimate with his wife. the beloved sws advised him in negative.
Islam gives a very balance life style so that it's followers can have "hasana fiddunya wal akhirah" ~atleast try for; the rest is in God's hands and depends on people's test of life.
and if we look at the era of Muslims in which they progressed the most untill about 1600, none of them practiced sufism per se but they were all excellent practicing muslims. |
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safimera
CANADA
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Posted - Saturday, March 20, 2010 - 6:45 AM
quote:
this he said about QudaratuAllah Shahab....
Then how did you include more people along with this shahab ?
My dear brother, wise guy, great ,intelligent, judicious and sensible Aboosait!!!!!
why u take mostly a word or a sentence out of context???
Shahab believed in sufism, he practised sufism and he experienced miracles which he claimed only done to him....
all other names I said, were doing the same stuff....according to Mr Ghamdi....
so how could you separate them in this regard....please concentrate on my point....I am saying "in this regard" meaning sufism stuff!!!!
in all other thoughts or manners Shahab definitly could be different from these personalities.....
Secondly i m sorry for "typing mistake"...
as u objected, let me clarify
...I meant ===> "Lofty" did not get the answer of his question and I have also same query!!!!
Hkhan===> still I did not get the answer::if they were following a "matawazi deen" , then
were they still in Islam???
should they be considered misguided muslims??
I know we have no right to say anybody muslim or non muslim...but those were the scholars who had many followers...we should be clear in our mind about them.... |
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hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Saturday, March 20, 2010 - 10:35 AM
Hkhan===> still I did not get the answer::if they were following a "matawazi deen" , then
were they still in Islam???
should they be considered misguided muslims??
bhai u will have to use ur own mind as well at some stage. after doing all these readings, sit and think and ask yourself what feels right. after reading "ahde nas siratal mustaqeem"
why we expect the scholars to become our eyes, tongue, limbs as well as our minds? they are there like beacons to give us light. finally it's us who will still need to use our eyes, feet and mind to walk on the path that has been enlightened for us.
now wat do u think? do u think they were misguided? |
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safimera
CANADA
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Posted - Saturday, March 20, 2010 - 2:42 PM
quote:
now wat do u think? do u think they were misguided?
i do not know...may be I am dump!!!
What I thought about those personalities that they were as, u said, beacons to give us light.
when I read mr Ghamdi version on sufism and also Mr modoodi's....I thought these beacons were mistaken in this regard (sufism), only otherwise they were good muslims.....
but when I read Mr Ghamdi's version about "matawazi deen".....
then it is a big allegation on them!!!!
true or untrue, but technically it is putting them out of Islam??....
May be Mr Ghamdi want to discourage common people to think about it,
otherwise
how could you say that
a person is following a "matawazi deen" and also he is following "islam deen"...
May be Mr Ghamdi and his team do not want to touch this subject,
so I surrender.....
I am happy that atleast it is not part of our deen for sure..... |
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aslammir
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, March 20, 2010 - 3:49 PM
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aslammir
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, March 20, 2010 - 4:12 PM
I am also a great admirer of the books of Mufti and Shahab as far as its literary aspects are concerned but I don,t subscribe to all of their views. Their described miracles(i will call them sufi experiences) might be true to some extent and might be false in some cases but it is sure that they can,t be the basis of religion or shariah.
Ghamidi sahib never said(as far as I know) that all these experiences are from devil. He only says that these experiences can be doctored and influenced by Satan. According to the Quran Satan even tried to influence the revelations to the Prophets but allah saved them. Only divine revelations are guaranteed to be safe from satanic influence. No other body is safe from Devil,s influence, be it Ghazali,Shawaliullah or Mufti or Shahab. Sufism has good aspects as well as bad aspects which we will discuss inshaallah in further posts.
Edited by: aslammir on Saturday, March 20, 2010 4:10 PM
Edited by: aslammir on Saturday, March 20, 2010 4:11 PM
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Saturday, March 20, 2010 - 6:17 PM
quote:
...were they still in Islam???
should they be considered misguided muslims??........
In one of my earlier posts I wrote with proof from the Qu'an,quote:
.... If a Muslim practices Sufism without indulging in shirk they are still eligible for Allah's forgiveness......
But is it possible to practice Sufism without indulging in shirk?
Please click on the following link and take a print out so that you can read it at your convenience and decide for yourself.
http://www.ahya.org/amm/modules.php?name=Sections&;op=printpage&artid=145 |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Saturday, March 20, 2010 - 6:41 PM
quote:
...... a sahabi (may Allah be pleased with him~uncle aboo will know his name) expreseed once that he would stand in worship all night and would not sleep, fast all year long and would not intimate with his wife. the beloved sws advised him in negative
Allah says,quote:
(20:1)
Taha طه
20:1 (Asad) O MAN! [1] -
مَا أَنزَلْنَا عَلَيْكَ الْقُرْآنَ لِتَشْقَى (20:2)
20:2 (Asad) We did not bestow the Qur'an on thee from on high to make thee unhappy,
quote:
Riyad as-Salihin (The Meadows of the Righteous)by Imam Nawawi
14. Chapter: On Moderation in Worship
143. Anas said, "Three people came to the houses of the wives of the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, to ask about how the Prophet worshipped. When they were told, it was as if they thought it was little and said, 'Where are we in relation to the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, who has been forgiven his past and future wrong actions?'" He said, "One of them said, 'I will pray all of every night.' Another said, 'I will fast all the time and not break the fast.' The other said, "I will withdraw from women and never marry.' The Messenger of Allah came to them and said, 'Are you the ones who said such-and-such? By Allah, I am the one among you with the most fear and awareness of Allah, but I fast and break the fast, I pray and I sleep, and I marry women. Whoever disdains my sunna is not with me.'" [Agreed upon]
144. Ibn Mas'ud reported that the Prophet, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Those who make things hard for themselves will be destroyed." He said it three times. [Muslin]
Edited by: aboosait on Saturday, March 20, 2010 7:08 PM |
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safimera
CANADA
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Posted - Friday, March 26, 2010 - 4:20 AM
Aboosait====>U never understand my question.....what u mentioned to make me understand, I already believed in it...
I have question about personalities.....
and it is important. We cannot ignore these personalities because these personalities were not common people,,,
they were main pillars in islam propagation in history....
their teaching, research and literature were master piece in islamic history.....
Mr Ghamdi himself gave their references sometimes in his lectures.
but one time he said indirectly that
they were following "matawazi deen"???
MATAWAZI DEEN IS A BIG ALLEGATION.
so I need to know that
were they still in islam with this matawazi deen????
so Mr Aboosait (AND OTHERS)==> do not tell me what I already believe....
come to my question directly...
were these personalities according to Mr Ghamdi "matawazi deen principle"
still in Islam????
TAKE MY ANSWER:
In my opnion according to Mr Ghamdi
" matawazi deen principle"....
these all personalities were out of ISLAM!!!!!!
SO anybody who commentS here ,,just tell me in
"yes or no"....
just have a courage to say truth....
or
u have to say that In this case
Mr Ghamdi has become very emotional and having extremist view...
(i ALSO belive this).
(Although I am great admirer of Mr Ghamdi and he is my favourate...but I believe he is wrong here...and his comments here are of extreme level..to bring unity among good and God fearing people, he should not comment like that !!)
God knows better. |
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