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shah_625
PAKISTAN
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 Topic initiated on Saturday, March 6, 2010 - 8:11 PM 
Question to Al-Mawrid team
Salam
I really appreciate the research work going on in Al-Mawrid and their effort in removing the misconceptions developed about Islam. But thinking of all this research work brings a doubt in my mind.
When I think of the issues raised by Ghamidi sahab, I wonder whether for 1400 years we Muslims have been believing and following the wrong Islam?
Scholars of previous centuries are held in high regard and their knowledge and understanding of religion is undoubted. When they have consensus of matters of deen then doesn't that become ijtihad and no more remains just an opinion? How is it that one person saying a thing can claim to be right against a whole class of scholars?
Please note I don't belong to any particular group nor do I have anything against anyone, I just want to learn what is right. |
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aslammir
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Sunday, March 7, 2010 - 6:20 AM 
quote:
Scholars of previous centuries are held in high regard and their knowledge and understanding of religion is undoubted. When they have consensus of matters of deen then doesn't that become ijtihad and no more remains just an opinion? How is it that one person saying a thing can claim to be right against a whole class of scholars?.
How can you claim that consensus of certain scholars becomes deen?And the so-called juristic consensus is just a myth, i think. Brother remeber Ghamidi sahib has never deviated from the basic tenets of Islam, as far as I know. |
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shah_625
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Sunday, March 7, 2010 - 6:23 AM
quote:
quote:
Scholars of previous centuries are held in high regard and their knowledge and understanding of religion is undoubted. When they have consensus of matters of deen then doesn't that become ijtihad and no more remains just an opinion? How is it that one person saying a thing can claim to be right against a whole class of scholars?.
How can you claim that consensus of certain scholars becomes deen?And the so-called juristic consensus is just a myth, i think. Brother remeber Ghamidi sahib has never deviated from the basic tenets of Islam, as far as I know.
I'm not claiming that it becomes the deen, I was merely asking whether it becomes part of deen or not. If it's all just myth then that means our forefathers have been on the wrong path. |
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aslammir
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Sunday, March 7, 2010 - 6:38 AM
Did not our forefathers and jurists of the first centuries disagree on a lot of issues. A cursory look a the books of Fiqah will show that there was disagreement on almost all issues.
But unlike the Muslims of today, they considered it natural and did not form sects on the basis of these juristic differences! |
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safimera
CANADA
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Posted - Sunday, March 7, 2010 - 8:17 AM
Few things are very basic....
WE are still same in our basic concepts as our forefathers in Islam.....and those are:
1) There is no GOD except Allah.
2) Hazrat Mohammed (PBUH) is RasoolAllah and last messenger.
3) we have to do Salaat, fasting, zakaat and if affording then also HAJ.
4) Then we have to do GOOD DEEDS as much as possible (amil-u-salihaat).
That is it.
No conflicts and differences exist among muslims since Islam, on these basic points.
In other differences there are three possibilities:
1) Yes ! they were may be wrong in some issues (some not all), and that could be because they were not aware of any hadees or sunnah at that time or any other reason...but in any case they are not SINNERS, they just made a mistake but they would not be responsible for that mistakes because they believeed with sincerity that they are right. In such case, Allah would see there intention (niyat). (But this was usually rare.)
2) Or most commonly, they were may be right also so do all other scholars of present and past time.
What they said at that time ... were according to those situations, those circumstances and those capabilities of the people.
This is very important that decision could be changed according to the circumstances.(NOT ON BASIC CONCEPT)
I would give you ONE example:
a)Hazrat OMER SUSPENDED CAPITAL PUNISHMENT FOR TWO YRS FOR THIEVES WHEN THERE WAS DROUGHT IN MADINA.
3) LASTLY in case of "DEEDS" (AAMAAL), many opposites deeds could be ok or good.
let me give you one example of that:
1) RasoolAllah (PBUH) sent sahaba to khaiber to fight...and he said "go fastly and do ASAR prayer in khaiber".
When sahaba went , they found Asar time in middle of journey.
Conflict developed.
Some sahaba offered asar prayer there, becuase they said RasooaALlAh always said "offer salah in time"
and he said this time about khaiber because he wanted us to reach there before Asar...but now Asar time had come , so we must offer here .
But other sahaba refused and they offered asar in khaiber.
When they reached back to madina , they asked RasoolAllah(PBUH) and RasoolAllah(PBUH) said both parties are right.Because their intentions were according to islamic values and rules. (But again, remember!! there is no compromise on basic pillars of islam)
GOD knows better. |
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hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Sunday, March 7, 2010 - 10:20 AM
amongst our forefathers the only people who we believe were perfect and completely right and is a pillar of our faith as well, were the prophets of God(pbAh) as the were directly guided by God,the rest of them while trying to follow these prophets may not be completely wrong but could err in few or many things.
the door to correction and betterment in order to practice God's Message in the best of ways with changing times, discoveries and cultures remains open as a challenge now until the Day of Judgement.
neither the reformers before ghamidi sb nor himself and team claim to be the best or final reformers. this river has to continue to flow in order to prevent stagnation as maulana wahiduddin khan sb so rightly said. |
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shah_625
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Sunday, March 7, 2010 - 4:18 PM
quote:
amongst our forefathers the only people who we believe were perfect and completely right and is a pillar of our faith as well, were the prophets of God(pbAh) as the were directly guided by God,the rest of them while trying to follow these prophets may not be completely wrong but could err in few or many things.
the door to correction and betterment in order to practice God's Message in the best of ways with changing times, discoveries and cultures remains open as a challenge now until the Day of Judgement.
neither the reformers before ghamidi sb nor himself and team claim to be the best or final reformers. this river has to continue to flow in order to prevent stagnation as maulana wahiduddin khan sb so rightly said.
The way I'm seeing it, doesn't it sound illogical to accept that for 1400 years Islam has been practiced wrongly, Allah and our beloved Prophet (PBUH) couldn't even make sure that people follow the true Islam??
Secondly this is deen it's not like science where new experiments can prove the older theories wrong. Deen cannot be in constant development, it is complete and has to stay like that for eternity. |
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safimera
CANADA
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Posted - Monday, March 8, 2010 - 7:23 AM
shah_625:
quote:
Secondly this is deen it's not like science where new experiments can prove the older theories wrong. Deen cannot be in constant development, it is complete and has to stay like that for eternity.
I agree with you....let me further add,
what I tried to mention in my earlier
post:
If you see all the factions (or so called faction) in muslim world ...all of them stick to basic pillars and principles of Islam (iman, salat, fasting, zakat, haj, good deeds with other humans, talking nicely, forgiveness, issues of warasat, wedding etc etc)....they all are same.....they cannot be changed.... only and only differece is circumstancial and situational in implementation.
for example: all muslims should go to pray (namaz) in mosque...this is an ideal principle....but
now situations came:
1) somebody is sick...ok ...ruling==> ..no need to go.
2) there is heavy raining outside...ok ..ruling==>...no need to go..
3) woman busy with household job or with childern...ok..ruling==> ...no need to go.
Now there could be conflicts in such rulings as well....one scholar may say ... male has to go in rain if he has umbrella or something like that...
other scholar would say ..no, it is not the matter of umbrella only , he may get sick from this rain ..so no need to go...
this is just an example...
so my freind !!! circumstances and situations would always keep changing ...and so the rulings....
but basic pillars and principles would remain same.....
one last example:
At the time of RasoolAllah (PBUH)..Any new muslim was not paying jazya(tax)
.... but at the time of Hazrat Umer..he started to take jazya(tax) from new muslims also until a little time would pass and he would prove that he did not become muslim just to take advantage of removing jazya from him.....
Like in India many hindus become muslims in court, to have 2 or 3 wives..lols....u see. |
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atifrafi
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Monday, March 8, 2010 - 8:45 AM
Dear shah_625,
I think it would be better if we can discuss your concerns case by case. In general I can safely say that there hasn't been any dispute in scholars of previous centuries on the BASICS of Islam. Ghamidi Sb or any other scholar of the present age also agrees with all previous age scholars on the BASICS
There have been disputes in many secondary level issues among previous scholars as well as current scholars but brother rest assured that these issue are not basics of IMAAN... We can and should listen to all scholoars and adopt the one which seems to be more logical and closer to the basic teachings of Islam.
Also, i don't think that we should use words like people have been following Wrong Islam as these conflicts are not in the Basics or about the issues regarding Imaan. |
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aslammir
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Monday, March 8, 2010 - 2:45 PM
| Every vibrant and living society develop differences but they don,t blow them out of proportion and don,t form factions and sects on the basis of these differences. A stagnant and dead society follows blindly whatever is fed to them.And a decadent society,like ours,kill one another on the basis of minor differences.If scholars stop expressing their differences or their further research,all intellectual activities will come to a standstill. |
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shah_625
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Tuesday, March 9, 2010 - 7:08 PM
Okay. I agree that the difference is on secondary level not on basics. But isn't secondary also Islam? Why does there have to be such a difference in following one religion? This only makes the religion complicated doesn't it?
And secondly I would like to clear my doubts about whether the issue of hijab for female is basic or secondary. Ghamidi sahab has a different view point then the classical scholars (if I'm not wrong). Perhaps same is with 'no Jihad without state.' Does this also come under secondary? |
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aslammir
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Wednesday, March 10, 2010 - 2:26 AM
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atifrafi
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Wednesday, March 10, 2010 - 5:55 AM
Dear shah_625,
You are right that secondary level issue are also Islam. I think the problem is NOT in the "disagreement" but in the fact that most scholars are not willing to even listen to others point of view. There are many things which are optional or left upon us. Just for an Example, Qa‘dah (sitting in a specific posture at the end of Salah, before saying the Salam) is a Sunnah. However the supplications to be made during the Qa‘dah are optional and we can do any supplication.
Now issue is that differect sects have selected different supplications and they are stick to those. We should be clear that this is left upon us and we can do any supplication.
About your 2 issues:
I will not advocate Al-Mawrid Team's point of view as your concern is something different. I believe you are more interested in the point that what OLD Scholars say rather than the reasoning or logic behind Ghamidi Sb's point of view. If you want, we can share those as well.
About the issue of Hijab, as far as I can understand you are concerned about "Face Covering". If that is the case than brother Ghamidi Sb is not the only person who claims that Face Covering is Not Mandatory. Many of the Past and Present age scholars also says so. Just for Example, Imam Abu Hanifa was also of same point of view. According to him, Face Covering was only required under some "Special Circumstances"
Many modern day scholors also hold the same point of view like Dr. Zakir Naik... There are many more, I am only quoting examples.
For your second concern about Jihad, I think brother aslammir has already responded to that in detail.
Edited by: atifrafi on Wednesday, March 10, 2010 6:35 AM |
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StudentAffairs
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Thursday, March 11, 2010 - 10:13 AM
The basic idea is to present the teachings of Islam in their pristine form and to apply its principles in current circumstances with a view to present positive solutions to the problems faced in the fields of law and politics, economics and sociology and indeed in all the other spheres of life.
No doubt, a tempest has blown the Muslim fleet out of course. We are going through a period of general decline in all the affairs of life. A revolution in the intellectual and mental perspectives is the need of the hour. The challenge we face is prodigious and the effort required is Herculean. But then, there is a heartening aspect to this situation: In recent times, the task of such an intellectual and mental reformation has already been taken up by a religious scholar of exceptional intellect, Imam Hameed Uddin Farahi (d:1930). He, together with his most outstanding pupil Amin Ahsan Islahi (d:1997), has redirected the Muslim religious thought to the path from which it had deviated by opening the way to direct deliberation on the Qur’an.
We intend to continue the work of intellectual revival begun by these two personalities in our own limited capacities so as to contribute whatever we can to the cause of this awakening. We are no scholars or men of learning, but very ordinary seekers of the truth. Our limitations and shortcomings are as evident to us as the midday sun, yet it is just the quest for the truth and the desire for its dissemination that has inspired us to undertake such a daunting task. In the tremendous pandemonium that prevails, our voice is no more than a whisper, yet something deep down in our hearts beckons us to devote even the last quantum of energy we have for the cause of truth:
Stand upright, speak thy thought, declare,
The truth thou hast that all may share,
Be bold, proclaim it every where,
They only live who dare.
Al-Mawrid
A Foundation for Islamic Research and Education
As a legatee of the rich intellectual tradition in Muslim history, al-Mawrid is a unique institution of learning. A deep concern over the dearth of suitable approaches to Islamic learning in our times gave birth to this institution at the dawn of the Fifteenth Century Anno Higerae (AH). [1] Lost in the maze of sectarian prejudices and political wrangling, the true message of Islam, based on the Holy Qur’an and the Sunnah, has become alien to the Muslims. The Qur’an, which is the foundation of this religion, is rarely approached for purposes other than oral delivery or rote learning. In the madrasas, those disciplines of learning that were at best a possible means to understanding the Qur’an have become an end in themselves. The Hadith has been isolated from its foundations in the Qur’an and the Sunnah, and the primary focus now is on the foundational principles and the emanating discourses of a particular school of thought and on the polemics to establish their superiority over those of others.
As an institution, al-Mawrid is a name that symbolizes the effort to redress this problem. Therefore, the basic objective of this institution is facilitation and perpetuation of explanatory and research work on the true understanding of Islam, the publication and mass communication of this understanding through all possible means, and augmentation of people’s knowledge and education through its dissemination.
Following are the salient features of the modus operandi to achieve this objective:
1. Well-accomplished researchers and scholars with a sound understanding of religion be attached to al-Mawrid where they do research or academic work either on the basis of assignments given by the institution or on the basis of their own proposals
2. True understanding of Islam be spread throughout the world through the latest means of mass communication
3. The general exhortation and admonition of the Qur’an and its approach towards the purification of thought and deeds be converted into such movement as attracts the intelligentsia of the nation to be affiliated with this mission
4. People be motivated to set up, wherever possible:
1. institutions of Islamic learning to produce religious scholars and researchers with a true vision and understanding of Islam
2. schools (up to the intermediate/A levels) to provide students with high quality education and training in an environment where their creativity is encouraged and due attention is given to developing a sound awareness of their religious and cultural heritage
3. weekend schools to provide students from other schools with instruction in the Qur’an through the Qur’an itself in such manner as enables them to remain committed to their religion from the depth of heart, mind and soul in their later years
4. religious and spiritual sanctuaries where people can find a break from their worldly and mundane routines to benefit from the company of scholars and pious people, learn religion from them, and focus on worship and prayer to purge their hearts and minds
The administration of al-Mawrid is in the hands of its Board of Governors. The administrative system is founded on democratic principles. The President of the institution serves as the academic and intellectual patron, and the Secretary General as its administrative head.
Al-Mawrid is a Non-governmental Organization (NGO) that is registered as a non-profit enterprise under the Societies Registration Act, 1860. Donations to this institution are exempt from income tax in Pakistan, and the institution accepts contributions from all those who agree with its objectives. |
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aslammir
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, March 12, 2010 - 8:15 AM
Thank u for ur inspiring words! May Allah help the guys at Al-mawrid or those associated with its mission pull off the noble task they have undertaken!
Edited by: aslammir on Friday, March 12, 2010 8:16 AM |
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