| Author | Topic |
Junaidj
CANADA
|
 Topic initiated on Friday, December 24, 2004 - 7:38 PM 
Permission from first wife
Somehow I am not comfortable with the notion that one does not need permission from the first wife for second marriage. To me this reeks of violation of the rights of the first wife.
Second if the objective of multiple marriage be upbringing of orphans, can they not be financially supported, is marriage necessary.
Third, even if it be argued that there are other issues i.e., a widow woman's desires as apart from raising orphans, should this not be treated as a test of patience, after all if scholars counsel the unmarried and the homosexuals to stay chaste, then one could make a similar argument for widows.
Comments? |
|
oosman
USA
|
Posted - Saturday, December 25, 2004 - 4:19 AM 
Assalam JBJ
Consider this scenario. You are living in a small town of about hundred people. There is a woman whose husband or parents or both just died. She has no money to pay the land lord and no job. She is destitute. You, being a very kind and noble person, go to her home, knock at the door, talk to her, offer your assistance and give her charity and money. The neighbors see you come and go every other day and gossip spreads in the town. This turns into slander. The woman suffers and you suffer. If you are married, your wife might get suspicious and call for divorce or in the least create propblems for you.
Not a very good situation! Its just hypothetical, but something to think about. |
|
Junaidj
CANADA
|
Posted - Saturday, December 25, 2004 - 7:25 AM
>>The neighbors see you come and go every other day
This would be taken care of by Islamic code of interaction (you know speaking to a lady alone restrictions). Now would it not?
>>your wife might get suspicious and call for divorce
Maybe a noble person would have sent his wife in the first place for help.
Anyways, the issue is of permission. |
|
oosman
USA
|
Posted - Saturday, December 25, 2004 - 8:44 PM
| You do not need permission, whether you like it or not does not matter with laws of Quran. On the other hand it is better to get permission so every one is happy. |
|
saadiamalik
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Sunday, December 26, 2004 - 3:29 AM
Assalaamu Alaikum.
If you accept that taking a second wife is only allowed under special circumstances, perhaps you'll be better able to appreciate the non-conditionality of permission from the first one.
It is not difficult to imagine that it would be close to impossible for a wife to permit her husband a second marriage, when he may need to. Apart from the condition of widowed ladies, there may be a situation whereby the lever would have to draw in favour of a second marriage as opposed to adultery.
Also, at times, somethings are not made obligatory, and the situation is left to the discretion of the state and/or the party under the given circumstances. Under Pakistani law, for instance, seeking permission from the first wife is a definite pre-requisite.
I do not really favour two marriages at one time, by the way. Just trying to make some sense out of the (conditional) permission granted.
Wallahu'Alam. |
|
Junaidj
CANADA
|
Posted - Sunday, December 26, 2004 - 7:26 AM
>>it would be close to impossible for a wife to permit her husband a second marriage
For a good reason ofcourse. It would be impossible for a man to have balance in two or more homes. One might just try to place one's own father in that position, i.e., Kant's categorical imperative :)
>> Apart from the condition of widowed ladies, there may be a situation whereby the lever would have to draw in favour of a second marriage as opposed to adultery.
This notion could be severly abused. Just because a man could not contain himself, he can go ahead and have legalized sex?
As before, there are other ways of providing for widows. Why not let the unmarried noble men deal with them, if they are noble enough?
Edited by: junaidj on Sunday, December 26, 2004 7:37 AM |
|
abdullah099
USA
|
Posted - Sunday, December 26, 2004 - 7:52 AM
I do not think many men would marry a second wife just to releave their urges because their reason would overide their feelings. Every man knows it's not easy to take care of more than one wife as you have to support them financially as well as emotionally. But there are a few men out there who take second, third, or fourth wives just for sex. Although picture this, you are the first wife of your husband and he marries another woman without getting your permission. Your angry for a while but you soon realize that nothing much has changed in your relationship other than that he sleeps somewhere else every other day. He is still taking care of you financially as well as emotionally. Personally I think that it would not be as bad as most women think. It's not like women need to have sex every day, so they would not go crazy if they didn't sleep with their husbands every night. In fact women are the one's who are usually giving their husbands excuses as to why they cannot have sex that night.
I think what makes most women who are in a polygamous marriage angry is just the thought of their husbands being with another women instead of them. But those feelings are brought upon by Shaitan as we know from a haddith that Aisha (ra) was angry one night when the prophet Muhammad (SAW) left her house to go to another one of his wives. When he came back he noticed her anger and asked her about it. He realized she was angry due to feelings of jealousy and told her that these are brought upon by Shaitan so whenever this happens she should supplicate to Allah to get rid of the evil thoughts brought upon by Shaitan.
"As before, there are other ways of providing for widows. Why not let the unmarried noble men deal with them, if they are noble enough?"
The prophet Muhammad commanded that unmarried men, if they have not been married before should marry virgins. This is a well known sunnah of the prophet Muhammad. So to ask an unmarried man to be noble by marrying a widow is something which is not approved of by Islam. Consider this, a young man marries a middle aged widow. This is his first marriage so he's expecting fun and excitement. But he finds that not only is he unsatisfied with the sex life, but he's also unable to connect on a personal level with his wife due to the age difference. This would lead to feelings of regret and may even lead the husband to end up committing adultery. I knew of a man who was in a similar situation. He married a widow and regretted his decision due to their age difference as well as her not being a virgin. He asked her to allow him to marry a second wife but she refused and he did not know what to do as divorce is considered a last resort and every sheikh he asked adviced him not to divorce his wife. See what kinds of problems that can cause? |
|
Junaidj
CANADA
|
Posted - Sunday, December 26, 2004 - 8:26 AM
The Shariah is silent on smoking. So we deal with the matter with common sense and reason. If the government bans smoking in public places for very good reasons, we are fine with it for the government can impose laws in the public interest.
Likewise the Shariah is silent on permission of first wife. Is it? If so we can have the condition of permission, by analogical deduction.
The former disrupts physical health and the latter emotional and mental. Both would be against the public's interest.
Edited by: junaidj on Sunday, December 26, 2004 8:26 AM |
|
Junaidj
CANADA
|
Posted - Sunday, December 26, 2004 - 8:38 AM
>>Your angry for a while but you soon realize that nothing much has changed in your relationship other than that he sleeps somewhere else every other day.
I think you are assuming too much here.
>>But those feelings are brought upon by Shaitan
What has Satan got to do with jealousy?
>>The prophet Muhammad commanded that unmarried men, if they have not been married before should marry virgins.
Should marry virgins? May I have the reference for this please?
>>This is a well known sunnah of the prophet Muhammad.
If so then Imam Ibn Taymmiah, Imam At Tabari, Imam Nawawi and Imam Bukhari are guilty of violating it.
>>So to ask an unmarried man to be noble by marrying a widow is something which is not approved of by Islam.
Has it been disapproved by it?
>> But he finds that not only is he unsatisfied with the sex life, but he's also unable to connect on a personal level
It depends on personal preference. Great Hollywood example - Ashton Kutcher (25) and Demi Moore (40). Moreover, I think there is therapy available.
>>and may even lead the husband to end up committing adultery.
A noble person would never do it. If unmarried people can stay away from fornication, the case for adultery weakens in the case of married folks.
>>He married a widow and regretted his decision due to their age difference as well as her not being a virgin.
I dont want to pass judgments here but I think your friend was quite cheap to bring in the virgin factor here.
>>......adviced him not to divorce his wife.
Well we already have Zayd divorcing Zaynab. If mental conditions do not connect, then second marriage would sort out nothing for the relation between the first wife and the guy.
Edited by: junaidj on Sunday, December 26, 2004 8:48 AM |
|
oosman
USA
|
Posted - Sunday, December 26, 2004 - 4:11 PM
I think Abdullah099 meant marrying an unmarried woman is preferred for an unmarried man.
Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 16:
Narrated Jabir bin Abdullah:
While we were returning from a Ghazwa (Holy Battle) with the Prophet, I started driving my camel fast, as it was a lazy camel A rider came behind me and pricked my camel with a spear he had with him, and then my camel started running as fast as the best camel you may see. Behold! The rider was the Prophet himself. He said, 'What makes you in such a hurry?" I replied, I am newly married " He said, "Did you marry a virgin or a matron? I replied, "A matron." He said, "Why didn't you marry a young girl so that you may play with her and she with you?" ....
Also I do not understand why one would, just because of your diskliking polygyny, find reasons and excuses to put conditions on it when Quran puts no such condition on it and leaves us to choose as we will. If you do not like the practice, do no practice it, but you have no right to impose your own restrictions on it so others find it hard to practice. |
|
Hamdiyah
USA
|
Posted - Sunday, December 26, 2004 - 5:56 PM
quote:
>>it would be close to impossible for a wife to permit her husband a second marriage
For a good reason ofcourse. It would be impossible for a man to have balance in two or more homes. One might just try to place one's own father in that position, i.e., Kant's categorical imperative :)
>> Apart from the condition of widowed ladies, there may be a situation whereby the lever would have to draw in favour of a second marriage as opposed to adultery.
This notion could be severly abused. Just because a man could not contain himself, he can go ahead and have legalized sex?
As before, there are other ways of providing for widows. Why not let the unmarried noble men deal with them, if they are noble enough?
Edited by: junaidj on Sunday, December 26, 2004 7:37 AM
|
|
Hamdiyah
USA
|
 Posted - Sunday, December 26, 2004 - 6:02 PM
It would be "impossible" for "some" women to "permit" her husband a second wife. There are women who would not question the permissions given by Allah. Remember, Allah Ta'ala stated that a Muslim man may have up to four wives (if he can take care of four) but that it is "best" that he have only one, because he will never be able to treat them with equality. No man can divide his heart equally amongst two (or three, or four) women. Even the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) had favorites.
quote:
>>it would be close to impossible for a wife to permit her husband a second marriage
For a good reason ofcourse. It would be impossible for a man to have balance in two or more homes. One might just try to place one's own father in that position, i.e., Kant's categorical imperative :)
>> Apart from the condition of widowed ladies, there may be a situation whereby the lever would have to draw in favour of a second marriage as opposed to adultery.
This notion could be severly abused. Just because a man could not contain himself, he can go ahead and have legalized sex?
As before, there are other ways of providing for widows. Why not let the unmarried noble men deal with them, if they are noble enough?
Edited by: junaidj on Sunday, December 26, 2004 7:37 AM
|
|
saadiamalik
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Sunday, December 26, 2004 - 9:08 PM
Its not really about defying "Allah Ta'ala". At times, one must imagine oneself in a specific position, and then, try and understand how he/she may naturally react.
Also, to bring to notice an opinion on "equal treatment of wives", some would suggest that this equal treatment refers to the way a husband keeps his wives, resource-wise - providing the exact same amenities and rights to all. To love each and every person with the same heart is (once again) close to impossible; perhaps, even in the case of parents' love for their children. |
|
abdullah099
USA
|
Posted - Monday, December 27, 2004 - 5:27 AM
"The Shariah is silent on smoking. So we deal with the matter with common sense and reason. If the government bans smoking in public places for very good reasons, we are fine with it for the government can impose laws in the public interest.
Likewise the Shariah is silent on permission of first wife. Is it? If so we can have the condition of permission, by analogical deduction.
The former disrupts physical health and the latter emotional and mental. Both would be against the public's interest."
Actually that is not true. Islamic Shariah forbids smoking because the prophet Muhammad said that anything which is harmful to the body is forbidden. We all know that smoking is harmful to the body so it falls under that catagory as well. How would polygamy be against the publics interest? It's not like women are being forced into a polygamous relationship. |
|
oosman
USA
|
Posted - Monday, December 27, 2004 - 3:17 PM
| Junaid, smoking is indeed a very poor analogy. Also please do answer why you are so bent upon restricting polygyny when Quran Sunnah leave it open for us to do as we please. Why do you want to restrict something that Allah has allowed. Next will you be forbidding something that is halal? |
|
Junaidj
CANADA
|
Posted - Monday, December 27, 2004 - 10:47 PM
Abdullah and Oosman: The Prophet is not saying in the Hadith, SHOULD have married a younger woman or even recommending him to do so, in my opinion, he is merely stating his opinion. (Recall the date palm tree Hadith, where he simply expressed his opinion on date palm watering).
How convenient of Muslims to construe it as a command when it appeases them?
Abdullah:
>>Islamic Shariah forbids smoking because the prophet Muhammad said that anything which is harmful to the body is forbidden.
May I have the reference please?
>>How would polygamy be against the publics interest? It's not like women are being forced into a polygamous relationship.
That is exactly the point. Women are morally and psychologically cajoled into it.
Oosman:
>>Junaid, smoking is indeed a very poor analogy.
Why?
>>Also please do answer why you are so bent upon restricting polygyny when Quran Sunnah leave it open for us to do as we please.
That is exactly the point. The Koran and Sunnah leave it for us to decide based on our reason and common sense. So that is what we are deciding for ourselves based on all our common sense and reason.
Remember, the issue is of 'permission' not 'multiple marriage'.
>>Why do you want to restrict something that Allah has allowed.
God has also allowed wife beating as a last resort to saving marriage. But it stands as a suggestion not as free allowance. Likewise multiple marriage is a suggestion. Unfortunately both suggestions have been rampantly abused.
>>Next will you be forbidding something that is halal?
Please refrain from conjecture
General Comment:
Also spare me emotional outbursts.
Edited by: junaidj on Monday, December 27, 2004 10:49 PM |
|
 Reply to Topic 
Printer Friendly |
| Jump To: |
|
|
|