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saba2
Moderator
PAKISTAN
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 Topic initiated on Friday, June 25, 2010 - 5:09 PM 
Saudi Clerics Advocate Adult Breast-Feeding
The controversial fatwa, which was regarded as both funny and weird, issued recently by Shaikh Abdul Mohsin Bin Nasser Al Obaikan, member of Saudi Council of Senior Scholars and adviser to the king, has sparked a debate in society.
The renowned scholar said Saudi women can breastfeed their foreign drivers for them to be become their sons and brothers to their daughters. |
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saba2
Moderator
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Sunday, June 27, 2010 - 4:18 PM 
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saba2
Moderator
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Sunday, June 27, 2010 - 4:40 PM
| Ladies we in Pakistan and India are not so bad as far women's rights are concerned, we can drive, we can vote, we can travel abroad without consent from any male be it a husband father or brother. Saudi women have none of these rights. This does not mean we have smooth sailing in our countries as far as gender discrimination is concerned. |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Tuesday, July 6, 2010 - 6:14 PM
The new woman moderator wrote:quote:
The controversial fatwa, which was regarded as both funny and weird, issued recently by Shaikh Abdul Mohsin Bin Nasser Al Obaikan, member of Saudi Council of Senior Scholars and adviser to the king, has sparked a debate in society.
The renowned scholar said Saudi women can breastfeed their foreign drivers for them to be become their sons and brothers to their daughters.
......Later, Al Obaikan clarified that his fatwa was being distorted by the local media which ignored the condition that the milk should be drawn out of the woman and given to the man in a cup to drink.....
http://gulfnews.com/news/gulf/saudi-arabia/saudi-women-use-fatwa-in-driving-bid-1.643431
Edited by: aboosait on Tuesday, July 06, 2010 6:16 PM |
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saba2
Moderator
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Tuesday, July 6, 2010 - 8:14 PM
| It's still ridiculous and humiliating to say the least. What is the solution for non-lactating women. |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Wednesday, July 7, 2010 - 7:36 AM
quote:
It's still ridiculous and humiliating to say the least. What is the solution for non-lactating women.
This is not the place to ask. You will have to contact the scholar if you are so much interested. I posted that excerpt because your post was misleading and needed the clarification the scholar had given to the media. |
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safimera
CANADA
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Posted - Sunday, August 8, 2010 - 9:53 AM
quote:
This is not the place to ask. You will have to contact the scholar if you are so much interested. I posted that excerpt because your post was misleading and needed the clarification the scholar had given to the media.
what misleading????? or needed clarification???
as saba2 said :it is ridiculous and humiliating still in both cases...
some hadees in authentic hadees books were ridiculously fabricated ..but the problem is: educated and sensible people also got afraid to say against such clergy because they are using name of "islam " and "hadees"......
May God save us from such darkness..
Edited by: safimera on Sunday, August 08, 2010 9:55 AM |
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saba2
Moderator
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Sunday, August 8, 2010 - 12:35 PM
| I am glad some one understands how humiliating and ridiculous this is, we are not in the dark ages. |
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marwan
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Sunday, August 8, 2010 - 10:43 PM
This is the state of the hadithi religion of Muhammadanism.
It is ridiculous, illogical and a mockery of Allah SWT.
These scholars are the agents of shaitan as far as I am concerned. |
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saba2
Moderator
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Monday, August 9, 2010 - 3:30 PM
| Maybe some good will come out of it, Saudi women might be able to drive soon. I don't think it's deliberate mischief maybe just plain unawareness. It's not just Sunni clerics but I recently saw a clip of Shia cleric passing an equally ridiculous Fatwa. |
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SaadT
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Tuesday, August 10, 2010 - 10:43 AM
Sorry, but someone should have researched before posting the link. Everyone of us is being driven to the idea that Islamic scholars are illiterate and absurd in their arguments. Please read the following blog written by an American. I think she's better than all of us who are ignorant and are willing to accept everything as it is without authenticating it.
http://open. salon.com/ blog/stellaa/ 2010/06/07/ questions_ on_the_breastfee ding_fatwa_ story
Ma' as Salaam,
Saad |
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saba2
Moderator
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Tuesday, August 10, 2010 - 11:51 AM
SaadT,The intention of posting this link was not to prove Islamic scholars to be absurd or illiterate, but yes when a Fatwa is given
by a religious scholar it should hold some meaning.
The Fatwa on adult breastfeeding was originally given by Dr. Izzat Atiyya Head of the Al-Azhar Hadith Department "The
fatwa sparked a storm of protest in the Egyptian public arena, especially within the religious establishment".
"Head of the Al-Azhar Hadith Department: Breastfeeding Allows a Woman to Be With a Man in Private
Dr. Izzat Atiyya explained his fatwa in an interview with Al-Watani Al-Yawm, the weekly of Egypt's ruling National Democratic Front
party. He said: "The religious ruling that appears in the Prophet's conduct [Sunna] confirms that breastfeeding allows a man and a
woman to be together in private, even if they are not family and if the woman did not nurse the man in his infancy, before he was
weaned - providing that their being together serves some purpose, religious or secular...
"Being together in private means being in a room with the door closed, so that nobody can see them... A man and a woman who are
not family members are not permitted [to do this], because it raises suspicions and doubts. A man and a woman who are alone
together are not [necessarily] having sex, but this possibility exists, and breastfeeding provides a solution to this problem... I also
insist that the breastfeeding relationship be officially documented in writing... The contract will state that this woman has suckled this
man... After this, the woman may remove her hijab and expose her hair in the man's [presence]...
Dr. Atiyya further explained that the breastfeeding does not necessarily have to be done by the woman herself. "The important
point," he said, "is that the man and the woman must be related through breastfeeding. [This can also be achieved] by means of the
man's mother or sister suckling the woman, or by means of the woman's mother or sister suckling the man, since [all of these
solutions legally] turn them into brother and sister...
"The logic behind [the concept] of breastfeeding an adult is to transform the bestial relationship between [two people] into a
religious relationship based on [religious] duties... Since [this] breastfeeding takes place between [two] adults, the man is still
permitted to marry the woman [who breastfed him], whereas [a woman] who nursed [a man] in his infancy is not permitted to marry
him...
"The adult must suckle directly from the [woman's] breast... [This according to a hadith attributed to Aisha, wife of the Prophet's
Muhammad], which tells of Salem [the adopted son of Abu Hudheifa] who was breastfed by Abu-Hudheifa's wife when he was
already a grown man with a beard, by the Prophet's order... Other methods, such as [transferring] the milk to a container, are [less
desirable]...
"[As for the possibility of using a breast-pump, which] increases the production of the milk glands... that is a matter for doctors and
religious scholars who must determine if the milk [thus produced] is real milk, i.e., if its composition is identical to that of the
[woman's] original milk. If it is, this method is permissible...
Dr. Atiyya also said: "The fact that the hadith regarding the breastfeeding of an adult is inconceivable to the mind does not make it
invalid. This is a reliable hadith, and rejecting it is tantamount to rejecting Allah's Messenger and questioning the Prophet's tradition."
[1]
Al-Azhar Examines the Fatwa, Suspends Dr. Atiyya
In response to the uproar caused by the fatwa, Al-Azhar university formed a committee of several experts on hadiths to investigate
the matter. According to a senior Al-Azhar source, the university president also ordered Dr. Atiyya to publish an apology, and the
latter complied and retracted his fatwa, [2] explaining: "My statements on the issue of breastfeeding an adult were based on the
imams Ibn Hazm, Ibn Taymiyya, Ibn Al-Qayyim, Al-Shawkani and Amin Khattab [Al-Subki], and on conclusions I drew from the
statements of Ibn Hajar [Al-Askalani]. However, I hold that only the breastfeeding of an infant creates a family relationship [that
prohibits marriage between the parties and allows them to be together], as the Four Imams [i.e., the founders of the four Sunni legal
schools] said, while the [act of] breastfeeding a grown man [mentioned in the hadith] was a [specific] incident that came to serve a
[specific] purpose, and the fatwa I issued was based solely on my personal interpretation. Based on what I have learned with my
brothers the religious scholars, I apologize for my earlier [statements] and retract my opinion, which contradicts [the norms
accepted] by the public." [3]
However, the Al-Azhar Supreme Council, headed by Al-Azhar Sheikh Dr. Muhammad Sayyid Tantawi, refused to accept Dr.
Atiyya's apology, saying, "We must not be too lax in matters of religion, especially when the matter at hand is a fatwa that
significantly affects people's actual lives, inclinations, and views - because it speaks to their natural emotions which [lead them to]
embrace what is permitted and shun prohibitions." Tantawi said, "Society cannot tolerate [a fatwa] that undermines its religious
stability. There is enough chaos with all the unsupervised fatwas [published] on some satellite channels. We will never permit this
chaos to spread to the religious establishment and to Al-Azhar."
By the recommendation of the special committee formed to examine the fatwa, Al-Azhar decided to suspend Dr. Atiyya pending
further investigation of his case. [4]
Egyptian Minister of Religious Endowments Dr. Muhammad Hamdi Zaqzouq likewise criticized the fatwa, saying: "Fatwas like these
harm Islam, serve our enemies and push the public towards backwardness and ignorance." [5]
I am posting The link so that the whole article could be read.
http://www.irfi.org/articles/articles_901_950/controversial_fatwa__by.htm |
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safimera
CANADA
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Posted - Tuesday, August 10, 2010 - 1:05 PM
saadT==>http://open. salon.com/ blog/stellaa/ 2010/06/07/ questions_ on_the_breastfee ding_fatwa_ story
I could not open above site....
secondly: saadT===> it is time that together being proud to be muslim, we should have courage to do research against something considered authentic but illogical practically.....
sahih bukhari and sahih muslim etc have many fabricated hadees and many authentic hadees which are wrongly understood....
now time has come that with respect and with religious evidence we should expose such fabrication....
we cannot challenge any past or present scholars' sincerity and taqwa.....but we have to say they are wrong or sometimes ridicolously wrong........if they are wrong or ridicolously wrong...
and we do not consider all scholars are illiterate and absurd in their arguments (as u assumed) but sometimes any scholar could be absurd in any specific argument and he/she should be challenged for that...
GOd knows better.... |
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SaadT
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Tuesday, August 10, 2010 - 1:33 PM
@saba: Thanks for posting the link, though I'm quite aware of this incident.
Also, if I may ask you to post the link by Saudi cleric on which the thread started?
@safimera: Sorry for the inconvenience caused, there were multiple spaces in the link I posted which caused the problem. Please try this one
http://open.salon.com/blog/stellaa/2010/06/07/questions_on_the_breastfeeding_fatwa_story
Moreover, I was only referring to the fact that people make a mockery of Muslims nowadays, and try to prove their concepts are absurd and illogical. To the contrary which you interpret out of my reply.
Regards,
Saad |
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safimera
CANADA
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Posted - Thursday, August 12, 2010 - 1:52 AM
saadT===> thanks, now I could open the site....
and thanks for clarification about my earlier comments....yes!u r right...but I hope u did not take it as criticism on you...it was just a comment...
Edited by: safimera on Thursday, August 12, 2010 1:56 AM |
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saba2
Moderator
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Thursday, August 12, 2010 - 2:54 PM
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