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ibrahim
PAKISTAN
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 Posted - Monday, June 20, 2005 - 10:56 AM 
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ibrahim
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 7:17 AM
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Loveall
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 11:09 PM
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
QUOTE: Bukhari No: 296 and 297.
This is actually not the topic of discussion as it is already decided that a menstruating women can do all her routines works except those forbidden specifically. She can even sleep with her husband on the same bed WITHOUT some sort of urge, on either side, of doing the intercourse.
By the way, what is the protocol of Aitekaf? Like someone who refused to accept the Hadith of 9 years of puberty, can someone other refuse this Hadith considering it not based on the truth? There are many such Ahadith, which seem to be based on some conspiracy between the Prophet (sws) and his wife Aisha (Ra) and one feels ashamed to read.
QUOTE: Some scholars opine that the women who are indulged in regular teaching of Qura'n can continue to do so during their menstrual phase, thereby holding the Qura'n but being careful not to touch the arabic text.
I have not only heard but saw doing one of my friends in the hostel. But it seems to be impracticable without touching the arabic text. According to me Quran is Quran whether in Arabic or some other language.
QUOTE: In one translation, the clean is given as the angels…………
Regarding your first translation, from where these angels have come while there is NO mentioning of them, even a single time, of angels or Arabic words “Malaika” anywhere in the whole Surat (56).
Regarding your second translation, “no one touches it but the clean”, this means that every one who touches Quran, is clean/purified even those who tear, dishonour, throw on the filth depot or into the gutters, or burn Quran. Isn’t it?
If you say, “It is a statement, not an order” I give you an example of “La ilaha illallah” which is very much similar to the verse 56: 79- “La Yamassohu illa al Mutaharoon” and if you take “La ilaha illa Allah” just as a statement not the order, you may be labelled as an idolater and be excluded from Islam, if I am not wrong. Have you, with those who shower the rose petals on the tympanic slogans, understood the importance? Now answer me, if you are not de-tracked. By the way what you emphasise in the some other forums, Are commandments or statements?
On the other hand it must be understood well with open ears and open heart that in Quran there is No much importance of any CONTEXT which the someone is trying to emphasise otherwise most of Quran consist of STORIES and what can be your concern to those stories and all those talks if you follow the text then go on. Now answer me, if you are not bigoted and not de-tracked. Also tell me, how many are clear commandments in Quran? If one follows the text only then it is very much difficult to differentiate the one from those who say, Quran is nothing but the heap of ancient stories. But God says there are our revelations or communications in it for those who are sensible. Isn’t it?
Regarding the Hadith, “Cleanliness/purifications is half of the faith”? What is its importance and what are your limitations with the half faith? According to the Hadith, with half faith, your every act seems to be improper and impure. Isn’t it? Have you not made matter more complicated just for escaping washing your OWN hands, face, forearms and feet etc?
Your explanation seems to be WRONG; hence I DISAGREE unless, otherwise, answered clearly to the entire level of my satisfaction.
QUOTE: Does it say anywhere that if you are not pure state and you touch it, that you will be punished for doing that or that is a sin? It does not say that anywhere.
What do you mean by your this approach? By mistake there is no sin anywhere e.g. you can even eat and drink, as you like, during fasting. If you say, “It does not say that anywhere”, Do not you mean that one can break the arms and legs of someone with foot because foot is not mentioned anywhere in the Shariah but the with one’s hands and tongue one must not hurt others? Isn’t it?
QUOTE: Have you visited MY above mentioned links before POSTING your This post.
Yes. I have read the link in detail once again. What do we all understand the authors; Not the human beings like us, free of mistakes, free of corruption, free of forging, free of biased attitude etc? So uptill now, there is NOT a point less or more than what I posted earlier i.e. I disagree with the author of the link, as there seems to be NO such context he forged unless otherwise, answered clearly to the entire level of my satisfaction.
QUOTE: TELL me again what are your Questions?
Thank you. My questions are same as above including* those of my post earlier. BUT answer first my first question i.e. “Could you please enlighten, What is your BASIS of being so much Overconfident to say, “Believe me” regarding Touching and Reciting Holy Quran during Menstruations”? Then answer the other ones. By the way, why are you asking me to put the further questions while you could not answer my first question?
QUOTE: Regarding importance of the religious matter you said.
Importance of the matter is not much for those who want to touch Quran in clean condition BUT for those who want to touch in the un-clean condition and they must think seriously. It is just a common sense.
Being the professional, I was wondered to know that physical purification was not at all emphasised to touch Holy Quran otherwise according to the belief of my forefathers Wudhu can never purify someone unless there is internal purification which seems to be actually the case. BUT to me, not the single, either internal or external, one is the criteria.
Regarding the physical purification, Do you know some years ago the disease “Anthrax” which involves usually hands of the victims, spread by the bacteria present in the pages of the books. But this disease has no relation with the menses but general cleanliness as most of the diseases are related to dirtiness for example the disease (anthrax) is among those who handle the animals at their homes or the farms.
As I have read somewhere at this site whom saying I admired, “Not even the big scholars know exactly what God says, So unless sure 100% we must do which is more logical and according to the common sense” i.e. in this case, what logic or the common sense says whether you must touch the Holy books in clean state or dirty state. This is your decision to know in which condition God is more pleased.
Another question is, what is explanation of the matter in Ahadith?
NOTE: This matter is not only for that individual who have asked the question but for all the men as well and I am happy if permitted to touch Quran as such at any time of the day and night. |
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saqeme
GERMANY
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 Posted - Monday, June 27, 2005 - 1:25 PM
AOA
Dear brother loveall, aap ka nick loveall hai lekin andaz Hateall wala hai. 
you are really very strict and rude in order to persue your point. i think while discussing any point one should not be that pushy, and should explain his/her stance softly on the basis of pure reason and references.
what do u think? |
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oosman
USA
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Posted - Monday, June 27, 2005 - 11:34 PM
I have asked him (loveall) before to write politely and not to indulge in personal attacks. I told him his remarks offended me, and to that he said: "I am sick of this word (offence) to see repeatedly everywhere." If he is so sick of people complaining they are being offended by his remarks, then may be he should stop offending them so much.
There are some etiquettes of proper debate. One should refrain from attacking the debator, and only attack the argument with proper arguments backed by evidence. There should be no bias, and a willingness to understand and reason. Mr loveall has called me a 'layman' and 'cunning'. This is childish attitude coming for a grown mature human being. |
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gohar
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, July 23, 2005 - 11:51 PM
I ask you people some simple common sense questions.
1. IF you are bleeding in any sense dont u say "God/Allah help"?
2. Is the word Allah included in Quran?
3. Is there any other pure thing then the word GOD? So if you can say the word God and ask for his guidence and help and praise him in every condition and situation then what is wrong in reciting GOD's words?
4. What is the purpose of Quran? Is it only to read manuscripts to score sawab or is it for guidence and understanding?
5.If you believe in one GOD as you creator and submitt to HIS will and then you are afraid to call him in his own words, what is wrong with it?
5.If you need guidence would you not ask for bcoz ur dirty?
7. How is manustration different from any other bleeding apart from that it is not cut externall enviorment.
8. The only thing may effect you during manustration is having intercourse, which could cause you diseases.
Nobody solicit that you do not clean urself but if you can not then I wonder how can Islam be this dark to stop you from calling itS own CREATOR?
You people are unbelievable.
Edited by: gohar on Saturday, July 23, 2005 11:55 PM
Edited by: gohar on Saturday, July 23, 2005 11:56 PM |
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Loveall
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Sunday, July 24, 2005 - 9:10 PM
QUOTE: The only thing may effect you during manustration is having intercourse, which could cause you diseases.
If danger of disease then surely the woman is dirty.
Edited by: Loveall on Sunday, July 24, 2005 10:20 PM |
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gohar
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Monday, July 25, 2005 - 12:58 AM
quote:
QUOTE: The only thing may effect you during manustration is having intercourse, which may cause you diseases.
If danger of disease then surely the woman is dirty.
I should like to suggest the following insertion of words in ur statement which would help clear the confusion between the the object and event of dirt and dirtyness.
"If danger of disease then surely (intercousing with) the woman (during manustration) is dirty."
Does that help? |
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Loveall
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 1:16 AM
I said in response to your statement otherwise I have not read anywhere any disease to the female or spread to the male during menses BUT the wisdom of God is some else.
I disagree with you regarding this and your other syllogistic thoughts of this forum. Are you not trying to become over pious to touch Quran during menses while there is no sin to you if you neither touch nor read? |
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gohar
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - 2:34 PM
quote:
QUOTE: The only thing may effect you during manustration is having intercourse, which could cause you diseases.
If danger of disease then surely the woman is dirty.
Its the worst kind of presentation and darkness and ignorance in Islam to call women dirty.
Rather I would say its worst than that hinduism who forced women to sathi, the same as that of arab paganism b4 islam who use to grave women live.
Islam is not a mistery neither a magic or some kind of dogma.
Come out of this darkness. We dont believe in Dogmas and Fear.
quote:
I said in response to your statement otherwise I have not read anywhere any disease to the female or spread to the male during menses BUT the wisdom of God is some else.
I disagree with you regarding this and your other syllogistic thoughts of this forum. Are you not trying to become over pious to touch Quran during menses while there is no sin to you if you neither touch nor read?
If u have nt read abt any disease in manustration during periods; which is utter blindness, the only thing can confirm to u is to experience it urself but again I am quite sure that U ll be saying that it was God's curse on you.
Y are u stopping me to touch Quran?
Y are u stopping me to seek guidence?
Y are u stopping me to call my God?
How is ur argument viable when i can call the same God in my heart and with my mouth at anytime, so wats the point in not touching a Quran?
...Its no useful to read Quran without understand it?
Thats may have implied only in the initial stages of the spread of islam when people did not know Arabic.
Its simply fooling oneself,
yes only for those who are new to it and want to read it in arabic for the sake of learn reading the script in Arabic.
there is no holyness in the paper the holyness is in the words and their understanding, believing.
Quran is for my guidence and i would read it whenever i get a chance. Go and hit urself to a wall. |
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Puppy
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Sunday, July 31, 2005 - 8:12 PM
Salamoalakum,
My family is religious. Most of the men and women of our family are Hafiz. They say; the menstruating women can recite the Koran by heart only not by touching it. This is the dignity and right of Koran to touch it only in the clean condition, as Allah says in Koran. |
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gohar
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Monday, August 1, 2005 - 7:32 AM
Ur elders say it so it is right,
look at our thinking.... so Muslim like.. My GOD... have you not got ur own mind.. r u a robot.
What so holy about the paper and the ink? if you can read it by heart?
Let me check for that ayah in quran where those people are condemned of earlier Scripture holders who use to keep it in safe place and not read it... |
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ibrahim
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Monday, August 1, 2005 - 9:29 AM
quote:
Salamoalakum,
My family is religious. Most of the men and women of our family are Hafiz. They say; the menstruating women can recite the Koran by heart only not by touching it. This is the dignity and right of Koran to touch it only in the clean condition, as Allah says in Koran.
Wa alaikum us Slaam Dear "puppy"
I Just want to tell you that NO WHERE this CONCEPT is Present in the Quran that only in CLEAN condition it can be Touched. plz READ this WHOLE forum & then Comment. |
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Bhavittre
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Tuesday, August 2, 2005 - 1:26 AM
i have visited many countries. i met one of the social workers who told me…….
women are very calm and quite by nature. most of them are not bothered about their status because they consider them no doubt of high status of every kind. but some women who are deprived due to some social reasons like being beaten badly by their husbands, being divorced repeatedly, or being tortured by different ways or rejcted by the society etc come out of their homes and represent the whole women community. socially sound women dislike such movements. these women use islam becuz there is some relaxation for them in this religion otherwise they have nothing to do with islam. they do not know about the religious matters. the women should remain calm and quite to achieve the high status to avoid to be the target. however the women in all and those who come out of their homes due to some problems must be helped to solve the problems regargless of the religion and creed………..amin.
the women need some sort of lesson to be patient and accept whatever the rligion says. otherwise there is looking no change either in the religion or minds of the men. so no one is ready to entertain their stupidities. |
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