| Author | Topic |
Puppy
UNITED KINGDOM
|
 Posted - Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 11:25 AM 
|
usmani790
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Friday, December 15, 2006 - 10:27 AM
|
Nauman
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Friday, December 15, 2006 - 11:56 AM
As-Salaamu Alaikum.
There are other Ahadith too those mention a different time frame.
Narrated Ibn Umar
The Prophet said, "A woman should not travel for more than three days except with a Mahram." [Sahih Al-Bukhari]
Today a person can travel to any corner of the world in three days. I do not see it as an issue anymore. |
|
sahira
UNITED KINGDOM
|
Posted - Friday, December 15, 2006 - 1:10 PM
QUOTE:(ws dear sr. alhamdulillah am well)
to pretend a stranger as a mahram.... hajj with a lie i wudn't recommend. one may tell a lie on one's own responsibility
i didnt mean they would lie, in saudi you have to be accompanied by maharam, yet they do with a man that is not maharam in the true sense, as in someon they can not do nikaa with but have to travel with this person a they dont have much of a choice. |
|
hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
|
Posted - Sunday, December 17, 2006 - 10:28 PM
yes such laws/self inflicted pains cause real confusion;
its a shame that becoz of this man made law few of our sisters(including sr julie , isb shurah member) still awaiting the last min. news from SA re: their hajj visas; as hubbies agreed to stay behind in order to look after small kids and the sisters wished to join groups for hajj.our prayers and best wishes remain with them for their intention for this sacred journey |
|
usmani790
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Monday, December 18, 2006 - 3:46 AM
Assalam Alikum Nauman,You said
The Prophet said, "A woman should not travel for more than three days except with a Mahram." [Sahih Al-Bukhari]
Today a person can travel to any corner of the world in three days. I do not see it as an issue anymore.
Brother traveling is considerd until one come back to home from the journey.That also include the time one staying in the place where she intent to go.As far as Hajj is,surely its takes more than three days to complete it.
Islam is to follow the orders of Allah and his Prophet(pbuh).Sacrifying our desires (good or bad)for the sack of Allah, will surely be rewaded. |
|
Nauman
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Monday, December 18, 2006 - 6:20 AM
Walaikum As-Salaam Usmani,
I consider real traveling as moving from one safe place to another. It does not include coming back.
Let me quote here another hadith.
Adi bin Hatim relates that Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said to him: "O `Adi, have you seen al-Hirah (a region in Iraq)."
`Adi replied: "I have not seen it, but I have heard of it."
Allah's Messenger (peace be upon him) said: "If you live long enough, you will see a woman departing by camel in a litter and traveling until she reaches the Ka`bah without fearing anyone but Allah."
`Adi informs us that he thought to himself: "Where are the robbers and bandits who run rampant through the land?" Then `Adi says: "I have seen a woman travel by camel litter from al-Hirah to the Ka`bah fearing no one but Allah." [Sahih al-Bukhari]
I think we all know traveling from Iraq to Ka’bah on camel takes much much more than three days. |
|
usmani790
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Monday, December 18, 2006 - 7:27 AM
Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "traveling is a kind of torture as it prevents one from eating, drinking and sleeping properly. So, when one's needs are fulfilled, one should return quickly to one's family." (Book #27, Hadith #31)
From above ahadith I understand staying at the place other than own home during the one's journey is also considred travling. |
|
Nauman
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Monday, December 18, 2006 - 8:06 PM
The Hadith I quoted previously says a lot itself.
There are certain aspects of life that we need to interpret according to the time in which we are living. Your quoted Hadith certainly depicts the uncomfortable times for the traveler at that time.
Today it is not difficult to travel at all as compare to that time in desert exposing to sun, wind and cold at night either on foot or camel. They did not have comfortable hotels at that time to stay in either. Traveling for countless number of days by foot or on camel is certainly true as our Prophet [pbuh] said, "traveling is a kind of torture as it prevents one from eating, drinking and sleeping properly. So, when one's needs are fulfilled, one should return quickly to one's family."
We know that if a person travel from one corner of the world to another and stays more than four days [The opinion I prefer] he does not have to shorten the prayers; after all he is still traveling. Why to take away such an allowance from the traveler? |
|
hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
|
 Posted - Monday, December 18, 2006 - 11:45 PM
wudn't make a shariah law on the basis of a hadith because ahadith are regarded as khabr e wahid. we hv to be very careful in giving such verdicts re: sources.
(ps our courses on Intro to Hadith) |
|
usmani790
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 5:45 AM
Dear Nauman
Quote:-Today it is not difficult to travel at all as compare to that time in desert exposing to sun, wind and cold at night either on foot or camel. They did not have comfortable hotels at that time to stay in either.
Yes agreed.But today it far more difficult to performed the actual physical hajj.There about three millions people who used to performed hajj together.One have to walk many kilometer during the hajj,and its some times takes hours to travel just a short distence only.How many people die during the hajj due to the rush we all knows.So for a women to performed hajj without mehram will be more difficult task.
A favor if you could do for me to give few examples like that where ummah as whole deviate from the hadith of Prophet(pbuh) due to this type of reasons.
Quote:-We know that if a person travel from one corner of the world to another and stays more than four days [The opinion I prefer] he does not have to shorten the prayers; after all he is still traveling. Why to take away such an allowance from the traveler?
To my knowledge in this condition one have to pray qaser salat. |
|
Nauman
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 12:26 PM
Dear Mr. Usmani.
Quote: ……. many people die during the hajj due to the rush we all knows. So for a women to performed hajj without mehram will be more difficult task.
I think we are deviating from the real issue. The real question here is whether is it allowed for a woman to travel alone or not.
The hadith that I mention says so very clearly ‘YES’. Accompany of a Mehram is conditional to the circumstances. Since the 20th century, the traveling has become extremely safe. Countless Muslim women travel to other countries by themselves. I am sure there must be a couple of these women in your family too.
One should focus on what an Islamic Ruling is about a particular issue. One should also clearly distinguish between legal ruling and precautions taken by humans in certain circumstances. One is Mandatory and the other is dependent on circumstances. What I am saying is that it is absolutely ok for a woman to travel alone anywhere according to the Islamic Ruling. Please read the hadith again. Taking what kind of precautions is at her own discretion.
We might not let go our sister out of our house in the evening in this so called Islamic country but we can without doubt let her travel alone by plane wherever she wants. So it all depends on circumstances.
Quote: A favor if you could do for me to give few examples like that where ummah as whole deviate from the hadith of Prophet (pbuh) due to this type of reasons.
There is a different between doing something by Ummah and the ruling of Shariah. No one will travel unless the Saudi government changes its stance on Mehram issue. You will see it yourself that the Ummah will do it when the Saudi government allows them to do so.
Quote: To my knowledge in this condition one have to pray qaser salat.
You must be referring to Hanafi Scholars. They even do not allow to qasr prayers if someone stays at some place for fifteen days.
In the last I must say that there is difference of opinion on this issue. What I know is that great Imams like Malik, Shafi and Ibn Taymiyyah have ruled that a woman can travel in the company of reliable women for hajj. |
|
usmani790
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 9:29 AM
Dear Nauman
Quote:-I think we are deviating from the real issue. The real question here is whether is it allowed for a woman to travel alone or not.
I hope this would have made you understand that the traveling also includes staying in the destination and until one come back home.
Quote:-What I am saying is that it is absolutely ok for a woman to travel alone anywhere according to the Islamic Ruling. Please read the hadith again. Taking what kind of precautions is at her own discretion.
I don’t think we can established this based on hadith you are reffering.The others ahadith which have been quoted are more clear on this issue.
Quote:- we can without doubt let her travel alone by plane wherever she wants. So it all depends on circumstances.
Yes if she is going to any relation’s house or similar save place in any part of the world then its ok I guess.
Quote:-There is a different between doing something by Ummah and the ruling of Shariah.
You yet to show me any ruling of Shariah except what you have ruled out your self.
My Quote: To my knowledge in this condition one have to pray qaser salat.
Your quote:-You must be referring to Hanafi Scholars. They even do not allow to qasr prayers if someone stays at some place for fifteen days.
Hazrat Abdullah Ibn Umar (radhiallahu anhu) stated that whoever intends to stopover at any place along his journey for fifteen days (or more), he should perform his salah fully (i.e. he should not perform Qasr salah.) [Tirmidhi, Hadith no. 548]
Quote:-In the last I must say that there is difference of opinion on this issue. What I know is that great Imams like Malik, Shafi and Ibn Taymiyyah have ruled that a woman can travel in the company of reliable women for hajj.
Imam shafi have made it more clear that these women must be accompany by their mehrams then a women who have no husband nor mehram can go with them. for hajj. |
|
Nauman
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 9:51 AM
Dear Usmani,
Quote: You yet to show me any ruling of Shariah except what you have ruled out your self.
Could you elaborate more here? |
|
oosman
USA
|
Posted - Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 10:06 AM
| It is regrettable that ignorant people keep quoting hadith here and there to support their point without giving any isnads and without showing how authentic they are. Then they claim one must follow the prophet and what he said; and such people will quote a hadith to give their viewpoint more authority. I say I throw your hadith in the trash can and don't tell me to do something because according to you the prophet said that; when you infact have no authority or proof that he ever said such a thing. This is true for any hadith. Please if you cannot give isnads and discuss the reliability of narrators; then don't bother with nonsense hadith. |
|
usmani790
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 11:07 AM
Dear Nauman See what you have said.
Quote:-What I am saying is that it is absolutely ok for a woman to travel alone anywhere according to the Islamic Ruling. |
|