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hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
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 Posted - Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 1:47 AM 
contd: Testimony of a Woman.
The jurists have based their view upon the following verse of the Qur’an:
وَاسْتَشْهِدُوا شَهِيدَيْنِ مِنْ رِجَالِكُمْ فَإِنْ لَمْ يَكُونَا رَجُلَيْنِ فَرَجُلٌ وَامْرَأَتَانِ مِمَّنْ تَرْضَوْنَ مِنْ الشُّهَدَاءِ أَنْ تَضِلَّ إِحْدَاهُمَا فَتُذَكِّرَ إِحْدَاهُمَا الْأُخْرَى (٢٨٢:٢)
And call in two male witnesses from among your men [over the document of loan]. And if two men cannot be found then one man and two women from among those whom you deem appropriate as witnesses so that if either of them gets confused the other reminds her. (2:282)
This view of our jurists concerning the testimony of a woman is not correct owing to the following two reasons:
Firstly, the verse has nothing to do with the bearing of witness to an incident. It explicitly relates to testifying over a document. It is very evident that in the second case witnesses are selected by an external agency, while in the first case the presence of a witness at the site of an incidence is an accidental affair. If we have written a document or signed an agreement, then the selection of witnesses rests upon our discretion, while in the case of adultery, theft, robbery and other similar crimes whoever is present at the site must be regarded as a witness. The difference between the two cases is so pronounced that no law about one can be deduced on the basis of the other.
Secondly, the context and style of the verse is such that it cannot relate to law or the judicial forums of a state. It is not that after addressing a court of law that it has been said that if such a law suit is presented before them by a claimant, then they should call in witnesses in this prescribed manner. On the contrary, this verse directly addresses people who borrow and lend money over a fixed period. It urges them that if they are involved in such dealings, then an agreement between the two parties must be written down, and to avoid disputes and financial losses only witnesses who are honest, reliable and morally sound should be appointed. At the same time their personal involvement and occupations should be suited to fulfill this responsibility in a befitting manner. The verse should not be taken to mean that a law-suit will only stand proven in court if at least two men or one man and two women bear witness to it. It is reiterated that the verse is merely a guidance for the general masses in their social affairs and counsels them to abide by it so that any dispute can be avoided. It is for their own benefit and welfare that this procedure should be undertaken.
Consequently, about all such directives the Qur’an says:
ذَلِكُمْ أَقْسَطُ عِنْدَ اللَّهِ وَأَقْوَمُ لِلشَّهَادَةِ وَأَدْنَى أَلَّا تَرْتَابُوا (٢٨٢:٢)
This is more just in the sight of God; it ensures accuracy in testifying and is the most appropriate way for you to safeguard against all doubts. (2:282)
Ibn Qayyim comments on this verse in the following manner:
فهذا في التحمل والوثيقة التي يحفظ بها صاحب المال حقه لأفي طريق الحكم وما يحكم به الحاكم فان هذا شيء وهذا شئ
It relates to the heavy responsibility of testifying by which an owner of wealth protects his rights. It has no concern with the decision of a court. The two are absolutely different from each other.
Edited by: hkhan on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 10:13 AM |
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raushan
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
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Posted - Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 6:23 PM
4:15 AND AS FOR those of your women who become guilty of immoral conduct, call upon four from among you who have witnessed their guilt; and if these bear witness thereto, confine the guilty women [12] to their houses until death takes them away or God opens for them a way [through repentance].
four witness against one women.
you go figure |
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Abinzain
SAUDI ARABIA
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Posted - Friday, May 2, 2008 - 12:17 PM
quote:
there is absolutely no evidence or need to feel that way that men are more clever/intelligent etc.
The meaning of these ahadith is very clear. Muhammad "blanketed" a statement over every single woman who has ever and will ever live. Despite many creative ways to explain away the meaning and implications of these ahadith, the actual evidence cannot be denied. Muhammad clearly said that women are deficient in Intelligence because, in Islam, the value of their testimony is equal to that of half a man. If the Quran is a book for all people for all time, then that mandate stands; thus Muhammad was referring to all women in general; and not just a specific group of women.
http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Women_are_Deficient_in_Intelligence |
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Abinzain
SAUDI ARABIA
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Posted - Friday, May 2, 2008 - 12:18 PM
quote:
Al- Quran Sura, No. 2 (Al-Baqra) Verse, No 282
O you who believe! when you deal with each other in contracting a debt for a fixed time, then write it down; and let a scribe write it down between you with fairness; and the scribe should not refuse to write as Allah has taught him, so he should write; and let him who owes the debt dictate, and he should be careful of (his duty to) Allah, his Lord, and not diminish anything from it; but if he who owes the debt is unsound in understanding, or weak, or (if) he is not able to dictate himself, let his guardian dictate with fairness; and call in to witness from among your men two witnesses; but if there are not two men, then one man and two women from among those whom you choose to be witnesses, so that if one of the two errs, the second of the two may remind her; and the witnesses should not refuse when they are summoned; and be not averse to writing it (whether it is) small or large, with the time of its falling due; this is more equitable in the sight of Allah and assures greater accuracy in testimony, and the nearest (way) that you may not entertain doubts (afterwards), except when it is ready merchandise which you give and take among yourselves from hand to hand, then there is no blame on you in not writing it down; and have witnesses when you barter with one another, and let no harm be done to the scribe or to the witness; and if you do (it) then surely it will be a transgression in you, and be careful of (your duty) to Allah, Allah teaches you, and Allah knows all things.
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hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Friday, May 9, 2008 - 12:12 AM
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Abinzain
SAUDI ARABIA
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Posted - Thursday, May 15, 2008 - 1:09 PM
| I can believe only in what Allah and his prophet (pbup) has said and these sayings are very clear needing no further explanation! |
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hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 12:24 AM
we cannot ignore the fact that there has been and always is a typical class of men who could not achieve much in life in relation to education, career etc. and such are the people who have tried to blow such sayings out of proportion and out of context and their original place in order to keep pushing women behind & into the backgrounds so that the threat they feel from the women's achievements could not give them depression from their complex and worsen the sickness of their minds.
but alhamdulillah there are more of our brothers who have confidence in God & in themselves & their efforts 'n acuievements, who try to accept women's efforts and rather be supportive & encouraging on their achievements-just like the beloved Muhammad(sws/peace be upon him) was himself.
Islam never judges by gender or class or caste. it always upholds merit, both in worldly & purely religious matters-if we |
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Pavitra
INDIA
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Posted - Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 9:58 AM
quote:
we cannot ignore the fact that there has been and always is a typical class of men who could not achieve much in life in relation to education, career etc. and such are the people who have tried to blow such sayings out of proportion and out of context and their original place in order to keep pushing women behind & into the backgrounds so that the threat they feel from the women's achievements could not give them depression from their complex and worsen the sickness of their minds.
but alhamdulillah there are more of our brothers who have confidence in God & in themselves & their efforts 'n acuievements, who try to accept women's efforts and rather be supportive & encouraging on their achievements-just like the beloved Muhammad(sws/peace be upon him) was himself.
Islam never judges by gender or class or caste. it always upholds merit, both in worldly & purely religious matters-if we
In other words, we cannot ignore the fact that there has been and always is a typical class of women who could not achieve much in life in relation to education, career etc......... |
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Pavitra
INDIA
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Posted - Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 10:01 AM
quote:
I can believe only in what Allah and his prophet (pbup) has said and these sayings are very clear needing no further explanation!
I agree with you! |
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Abinzain
SAUDI ARABIA
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Posted - Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 1:09 PM
| Thanks! No one denies it but only the mentally sick women which constitute 3 to 4% of the population all over the world. |
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hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
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 Posted - Saturday, June 14, 2008 - 6:18 PM
women are hardly useless or a failiure. even our hardworking sisters in villages have generated golden examples of companionship and tough work remaining by the side of their husbands & family n brotherhood at farms, field works, harvesting etc. whilst looking after all homechores & children at the same time.
hence this world is un-imaginable without a woman wherever you go  perhaps we could do without men though 
(calm down A  why are you feeling guilty
Pavitra tum kaheen Bhavitra kee behan/bhai tow naheen   who was kicked out due to the evil posts he/she used to send ; mind you. many of you are appearing on our data base with repeated IP addresses. be v careful with ur language to our respected sisters & what you post!) |
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Pavitra
INDIA
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Posted - Sunday, June 15, 2008 - 3:18 AM
quote:
who was kicked out...
Mind your language. Dont you know many of the members have kicked out this site and you too useless hkhan. |
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Pavitra
INDIA
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Posted - Sunday, June 15, 2008 - 3:37 AM
quote:
Thanks! No one denies it but only the mentally sick women which constitute 3 to 4% of the population all over the world.
Not 3 to 4% but less than 1%. These are socially rejected women. They have no place in their home and the society. This is the reason they exhibit their complex. |
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Pavitra
INDIA
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Posted - Sunday, June 15, 2008 - 3:42 AM
we wish to have healthy discussions on these forums.
posters like P sound like a child with v. bad manners-or perhaps adults we have no choice but to block such usernames from the forums for 3 weeks initially according to the code of conduct.
plz bear with this foul language untill we hv time to delete them 
Edited by: hkhan on Sunday, June 15, 2008 9:20 AM
Edited by: admin on Monday, June 16, 2008 3:46 AM |
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hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Sunday, June 15, 2008 - 9:19 AM
we wish to have healthy discussions on these forums.
posters like P sound like a child with v. bad manners-or perhaps adults we have no choice but to block such usernames from the forums for 3 weeks initially according to the code of conduct.
plz bear with this foul language untill we hv time to delete them |
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Mikai
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Saturday, July 19, 2008 - 10:53 PM
Asa sister HKhan
quote
M; there is absolutely no evidence or need to feel that way that men are more clever/intelligent etc. Gender does not effect one's intelligence or character a least. Allah says in the Qur'an clearly that all humans, men and women are children of Adam and the best amongst you is the one who is the best in taqwa(piety/God conciousness)
end quote
Heh, it's been a while since i was last here.
My reasons that i posted earlier are based on scientific studies, once the science popped up i had to bite my tongue and research more into it. The Science led me to take this further and gain a better understanding on why Allah Swt could have possibly blessed men with a higher intellectual capability.
What I learnt is that men are different from women in various ways, apart from their obvious physical differences, their biology is different and their mentality is different, which is a key reason why their roles and responsibilities are different.
By understanding these differences I have gained a deeper respect for men and see their intellectual capabilities in specific areas as a great blessing. If you look into history and see how the world progressed, you will see how much men contributed towards it. While women had the important role of educating their children, men had the important role of learning about the world in greater depths so that they could bring benefits for their lives and for their families. You will see that science studies have shown that when men study something they go into great depth and detail, much more than women.
Anyway what we must remember is that women are still very intelligent but men have been given a degree above them simply because of their role and responsibilities. It is not given to belittle anyone or to make anyone feel inferior. For the men who do that and use their God given blessing to belittle women are simply ignorant fools who would deserve Allah Swt wrath.
Ok I said I will post some websites if you would like to see where my understanding comes from. Please do take a look, as these sites explain it a lot better and are very interesting. Try be open minded.
http://www.cerebromente.org.br/n11/mente/eisntein/cerebro-homens.html
http://www.theabsolute.net/misogyny/brainsx.html
http://members.shaw.ca/hidden-talents/brain/116-sexes.html#creative |
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