| Author | Topic |
Loveall
PAKISTAN
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 Posted - Sunday, April 3, 2005 - 12:06 AM 
Assalamo Alaikum,
I could not understand why you are discussing it. We can’t know exactly. Will our decision on the earth be the decision to be taken by God for implementation on the day of Judgement? If the Hoors are for both men and women, obviously everyone will be given one’s right. There will be no injustice on that day.
We must not discuss such matters, which cannot help us in this world. You can further elaborate your question if I could not understand.
Wassalam! |
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Mikai
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Monday, April 18, 2005 - 1:04 AM
Asa
Why do i feel the need to continue this discussion? It is very hard to explain, i dont think i would ever get my point across clearly. Dont worry my discussion may have already come to an end or is getting very close.
I dont know about you but as much as i appreaciate hearing from a few Muslims regarding hoors i am not fully satisfied. Yes i have come up with my conclusion on hoors and pray that i am not wrong but i would still like to hear from more Muslims who are interested in this topic and share my views. I dont really have anything to discuss further but just to listen. You see i haven't seen many sisters take up the hoor issue and i thought this would be a chance for sisters to talk about it and learn more about it, the truths and falses behind the hoor issue. I may learn something and they may learn something, if there is any truth behind my views then maybe i can open up some sisters minds or even brothers minds who had the same problem i had in what some scholars see hoors as. Would they agree or disagree?Personally i am pretty satisfied with how i see hoors, who they are for and how they should be seen. Whether that is how Allah Swt intended it, only He Swt knows.
But to hear more people agreeing with my views strengthens my beliefs in my views and helps me to feel the love Allah Swt has for women as well as men and that women are repected and have dignity. |
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Bhavittre
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, April 22, 2005 - 2:28 AM
| what is the concept of hoors |
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Abnotic
USA
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 Posted - Sunday, February 5, 2006 - 12:23 AM
quote:
Asa wb
Dear viewers 
From the first time I heard about hoors years ago I could never accept scholars belief that Allah Swt intended hoors for men alone, with the earth wives becoming the mistresses of the hoors. 
From their explanations, I could only feel degraded as a female, just an object of desire for a man as well as believing that men having greater importance than women. I cannot accept scholars beliefs that this is what Allah Swt is telling us. 
The reason I find this belief unbelievable is because of the life of women in this world today. We all know that sex has become a big part of the media, industry as well as life. What dignity or respect do women have these days? Almost any programme you watch on TV cannot live without a man making a reference to a woman and her body.  I know women are to blame for revealing themselves but you don’t see men putting a stop to it. Instead men enjoy it and want more.
Being a Muslim sister, as much as I hate women out there who do such evil acts I also hate the men who just love what these women do. These dirty-minded men even make dirty comments about women who are decently dressed as well.
It hurts me so much that women are viewed this way. You hardly see women being seen as human beings who are equal to men in mind and soul. 
Allah Swt taught us about shame, modesty and dignity. These are factors that have been a part of me throughout my life. Because of how important this has become for me, never would I want a man to view me for my body. I believe that how men view women these days is just plain perverted.
So if you can understand where I am coming from, to see a scholar saying that Allah Swt has planned for the men of paradise to have female hoors on top of their wives from earth, just completely sounds bizarre. In this world its obvious that this is what women want to escape from. Not to be focused on because of their physical beauty but to be seen as human beings equal to men. 
Women have asked what they will get in paradise (obviously to see if anything could balance this out), but to their dissatisfaction scholars reply that all women’s minds will be erased from jealousy and hatred towards the hoors, and that they will be made the head of the hoors and they will be made the most beautiful. 
From this, any logical thinking woman of dignity and common sense would find this insulting as if her purpose in paradise is to only be an object of desire for a man, just like what is going on this world.
Now I may not be a scholar, but that doesn't mean that I can't tell from right and wrong or tell whether something sounds logical or not. I pray that I have some intelligence. I don't believe this is what Allah swt has planned for the women. 
I found it strange, that if this is the reward why should women have such feelings of disappointment, why do they feel degraded, why do they feel men will have dominance over them in paradise, why do they feel they are rewards for men Why would our Lord want women to have to go through feeling as if we were objects of desire, something that women feel horrible about in this world
So you see maybe I am making good points here and that some scholar’s don’t really understand the whole hoor issue including women’s needs or I am completely lost.
But there are some scholars who make sense to me. They say hoors are companions/spouses with beautiful eyes, who are of modesty and purity both for men and women.  It has nothing to do with men just getting intimate relationships with many women, which I think has been wrongly put out by some scholars.
So why shouldn’t women also get many beautiful male companions who have beautiful eyes and keep their gazes away from other women and are untouched by other women and are of complete purity and modesty. Don’t women also have desires
So maybe inshallah Allah swt is trying to tell men and women that He will bless both with beautiful companions in paradise, and that these companions are not there for simply sexual relations but for something much more valuable, friendship and other things we cannot imagine. In paradise men and women are equals.
I pray for Allah swt’s mercy, and I do sincerely apologise to anyone out there if they feel I have said anything in a wrong way, because this is not my intention. I simpy wanted to share my views and see what others think
Please share your views on this, especially from any sisters, or anyone who agrees with me. But opposite views are welcomed. 
Jazakallah 
Edited by: mikai on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 10:56 PM
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Abnotic
USA
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Posted - Sunday, February 5, 2006 - 12:28 AM
Hello,
I am a Muslim male and also have trouble believing that there will be beautiful women in heaven for men. I also have a problem with the belief that there will be both male and female hoors as I would not want my wife to be near any other man and neither would I want myself to indulge in sexual behavior with someone other than my wife. About a year ago I read an article from a Muslim female who gave substantial evidence that hoors are not companions at all. Unfortunately, I have been unable to find the article. Furthermore, I cannot speak Arabic, thus cannot argue the matter myself. However, believing Muslim scholars about everything without understanding it yourself is completely stupid. The truth lies within the Qu'ran and we can all be translating the text incorrectly. So I encourage you to get these foolish thoughts about having sex-mates in heaven out of your mind and do much more research before coming to conclusions. Of course, the hoors may really be companions. But we are in no position to accept it as ultimate truth without analyzing every single aspect.Text |
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Mikai
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Tuesday, February 7, 2006 - 3:50 PM
Hello, I completely forgot about this thread I opened ages ago, but it is really nice to hear from you.
Yeah, I completely respect and agree with what you said. I thought exactly the same way you did when I heard about hoors the first time as well. I thought I was losing it, because I just couldn’t see the reality of such a future life. From all the research I did, I accepted that there are creations known as hoors and they are companions for the believers. (Is there a Holy Qur'an that says differently?) What does it mean by them being ‘companions’ to us? Only Allah Swt knows the true answer to that.
I only jumped to the possibility that women might have male companions too, if we accept that men for fact will have female companions. Otherwise I would never have thought about such a possibility, or want such a possibility for women. Heck I never used to think like this before!
But the more I went into thinking about it (over such a long period of time and learning that hoors are indeed your partners), the more I didn’t think it to be such an insane idea, as having several companions might be amazing. Don’t get me wrong; what really is important for you to understand is that I never regarded them as sex mates or desired them as sex mates. I never focused on intimate relationships, just companions, which is what I emphasised in my other posts. So if I ever dream of having male companions in paradise, it was never for the purpose of sexual relations at all. But you still make a valid point, how can we want or do such a thing, when we have our partner from here whom we love dearly?
My answer would be, is that paradise is beyond our understanding and imagination. Allah Swt would never allow such a life in paradise if it is wrong. So I have my full trust in Allah Swt. I applied my reasoning and logic, to the best of my ability and for now this is the conclusion I came up with. But just because I came up with my conclusion, does not mean it is the ultimate truth!!! Only Allah Swt knows! I never said that I am right and everyone else is wrong!!!
So please understand I did do a lot of research, and a lot of thinking too. My ideas did not come from anywhere. I applied whatever logic and reasoning I can.
I would have really liked to see this article you mentioned, it’s a shame you couldn’t find it.
bye |
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Loveall
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, April 8, 2006 - 3:10 PM
| We can’t know exactly. Will our decision on the earth be the decision to be taken by God for implementation on the day of Judgement? If the Hoors are for both men and women, obviously everyone will be given one’s right. There will be no injustice on that day. |
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Mikai
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Saturday, April 29, 2006 - 6:40 PM
Asa loveall again
Quote:
We can’t know exactly. Will our decision on the earth be the decision to be taken by God for implementation on the day of Judgement? If the Hoors are for both men and women, obviously everyone will be given one’s right. There will be no injustice on that day.
End Quote
Yeah i agree with you, everyone will be given their rights whatever that is.
Whatever Allah Swt has decided for us in paradise was done long time ago. Whatever decisions and conclusions we come up with here will not change any of His decisions if ours conflict with His. If hoors are just for men, then be it. Only ALLah knows best and only Allah decides.
May Allah Swt keep us on the right path and increase us in knowledge to get closer to Him and to gain the best of rewards-His friendship.
Edited by: mikai on Saturday, April 29, 2006 6:42 PM |
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Shuhayl
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Tuesday, December 18, 2007 - 1:41 PM
Assalamualaikum to mikai
1 The hoors are the wives of men in paradise just like the women of earth but less in beauty, although they are great in beauty
let me rimind us all having sexual desires for a woman is evil but having sexual desires for your wife is not blameworthy and most certainly not immodest
so there is absolutly nothing wrong in having sexual desires for the beautiful hoors. its simple as that.
I beleive woman of earth in paradise will not want more than one partner not because their minds will be wipedout but because out of pure love for her husband and pure attraction for the handsome look wich brothers will be blessed with, remember men will resemble the handsomeness of the beloved prophet yusuf (peace be upon him).
And dont worry sisters we will love and have great esteem for are wives among the women of earth more than the hoors.
also sister mikai the hoors will be hijabed from any other men except their husbands. so they can also be sexual desires and pure chaste at the same time. so remeber they will be wives not objects
I personally beleive woman will not have more than one companian but males will have more than one spouse. |
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Mikai
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Sunday, December 30, 2007 - 7:01 PM
Asa wb Shuhayl
It's been a long time since i discussed this topic but your view is still welcomed. I will reply to your post shortly as i would like to respond to what you said. |
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Mikai
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Tuesday, January 1, 2008 - 12:05 AM
Asa wb Shuhayl
Firstly, I respect the views you have put forward and since the last time I have discussed this topic, I have tried to be as open minded as possible for the sake of Allah Swt, as I have no right to claim that my beliefs on hoors are indeed correct.
Quote:
1 The hoors are the wives of men in paradise just like the women of earth but less in beauty, although they are great in beauty
let me rimind us all having sexual desires for a woman is evil but having sexual desires for your wife is not blameworthy and most certainly not immodest
so there is absolutely nothing wrong in having sexual desires for the beautiful hoors. its simple as that.
End Quote
A little misunderstanding here. Whether earthly or hoor companion, I never said having intimate desires for them is wrong.
My response is in 2 parts to highlight the 2 focus parts of this topic.
Part 1)
Descriptions of hoors (from hadith) mostly focus on intimacy (with shameful descriptions), giving an obvious impression of women as sex objects. Women have been blessed with souls, given awareness of self dignity, shame, are honoured as intelligent beings and seen as the other half of men by Allah Swt. So focusing and believing in such intimate descriptions of hoors, strips away a woman’s self dignity and understanding of how she is percieved by man and Allah Swt in this world as well as the hereafter.
As a Muslim woman this had an impact on my perception of Islam, as religion only comes and stays in ones heart when one can gain knowledge and understanding from it, therefore becoming closer to Allah Swt.
I have learnt a lot about the history of women and the degraded situations they had gone through and still face these days, all due to being treated as sex objects. So for a Muslim women to turn to Islam and see that men are rewarded with multiple wives who are described only in sexual ways may enlighten men and make them come closer to Allah but at the cost of degrading women who may become distant from Allah. Therefore I do have a different understanding of hoors that makes more sense to me and shows more value to women beyond sex.
Firstly I would like to point out that in Islam when husbands desire intimacy with their wives, it is out of love and compassion, that their wife is their other half, their soul mate, their friend, this makes women feel more valued as human beings, as people with souls and minds.
This is how I see hoors and therefore prefer sticking with the simple descriptions of them in the Qur’an, as pure holy companions with big lustrous eyes. Such a simple description removes the misunderstanding of seeing them as just sex objects but as complete companions similar to the connection you would have with your earthly partner and therefore safes guards the dignity and honour of women here. Descriptions of sexual nature are not necessary to mention as the word companion or spouse is enough of an indication.
Quote:
I believe woman will not want more than one partner because out of pure love for her husband and pure attraction for the handsome look wich brothers will be blessed with, remember men will resemble the handsomeness of the beloved prophet yusuf (peace be upon him).
End Quote
Part 2)
I admit that even i find it hard to comprehend having several male companions (but I want to emphasise that I only think that because my mind has adjusted to the system we follow on Earth). I can’t help and think that if I desired male companions in paradise, that my love for my first husband would not be pure love and therefore I would not be worthy of being his wife. (Note: This can never happen in paradise anyway but is something I cant help feeling here.)
But the above problem can very easily be discarded if men in fact will have multiple wives as thier pure love will remain for their first wife. So women can very easily have multiple companions without threatening thier pure love for their husband.
Quote:
And dont worry sisters we will love and have great esteem for are wives among the women of earth more than the hoors.
also sister mikai the hoors will be hijabed from any other men except their husbands. so they can also be sexual desires and pure chaste at the same time. so remeber they will be wives not objects
I personally beleive woman will not have more than one companian but males will have more than one spouse.
End Quote
I have learnt so much about Allah Swt and life, that the only reason we accept certain things and reject others is because Allah Swt chose it to be that way by instilling it into our hearts. The way things function in this world is because Allah Swt made them to function that way. Apart from good and evil concepts, which cannot be changed, as Allah Swt is the source of all good, other laws like the law of having up to 4 wives does not consist of good or evil but is a law Allah Swt applied to us on Earth. So for a woman to have multiple partners in paradise is not outrageous at all as it is not evil but something we just cannot comprehend now, as we never lived like that here.
Other e.g.s.
Animals ruling humans?
Men giving birth to children?
Ridiculous, right? We know it’s not evil but it just isn’t right. Why? Because humans always ruled animals, women always gave birth. But are these laws beyond Allah Swt or were they decided by Him? Of course He decided them, there is no right or wrong to it. If Allah Swt were to start life again and have women be the dominant genders and men give birth, as ridiculous as it sounds it could have very easily have existed and we would not have been able to comprehend life in any other way.
So is it possible for women to be blessed with male hoor companions, yes. |
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oosnam
INDIA
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Posted - Tuesday, January 1, 2008 - 11:28 AM
What are applied aspects of the gesture?
What does the gesture point to? |
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oosnam
INDIA
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Posted - Tuesday, January 1, 2008 - 2:38 PM
quote:
Will our decision on the earth be the decision to be taken by God for implementation on the day of Judgment? If the Hoors are for both men and women, obviously everyone will be given one’s right. There will be no injustice on that day.
We must not discuss such matters, which cannot help us in this world.
You are very right!
Emphasizing and wasting time on such discussions certainly reflect the level of the connoisseurship, nothing else! |
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oosnam
INDIA
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Posted - Tuesday, January 1, 2008 - 2:38 PM
quote:
Will our decision on the earth be the decision to be taken by God for implementation on the day of Judgment? If the Hoors are for both men and women, obviously everyone will be given one’s right. There will be no injustice on that day.
We must not discuss such matters, which cannot help us in this world.
You are very right!
Emphasizing and wasting time on such discussions certainly reflect the level of the connoisseurship, nothing else! |
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Mikai
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Thursday, January 3, 2008 - 12:30 AM
Asa Oosman,
Quote
Emphasizing and wasting time on such discussions certainly reflect the level of the connoisseurship, nothing else!
End Quote
Brother, you are in no position to decide whether discussing a particular topic is a waste of time, we all come from different views of understanding, what one may find important to discuss as it is an obstacle in their faith, may not necessarily be an obstacle to another. I clearly stated my reasons for initiating this thread which is perfectly plausible as it is strongly linked with the concept of women.
I understand that there is a section where i tend to focus on whether women will get hoors but again it is linked with the concept of women, therefore i see no harm in sharing my view with someone who is opposed to the idea, so that we can gain an understanding from each other.
This is just simple discussions between various people, not a hot fiery debate, just because you stated your views already does not mean no one else can share theirs and have a discussion of their own. If you took note, the last person posted thier view almost 2 years after i left this topic during which i made no attempts in keeping the topic alive as i had my say. Since it had been so long i saw no harm in responding and giving a fresh answer without the need to refer to my previous posts.
I am disappointed that you made a false assumption in linking me to the idea of connoisseurship and feeling the necessity to post a personal comment.
Edited by: mikai on Saturday, January 05, 2008 8:54 PM |
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Mazhara
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Sunday, January 6, 2008 - 10:26 AM
For some study on any point the most appropriate thing is to first consult the Ayat of Quran e Majeed on the subject. Quran has specifically determined the “sex” of those referred to as “Hoor”. At all the points men are referred who will get “virgin hoor”.
ڪَذَٲلِكَ وَزَوَّجۡنَـٰهُم بِحُورٍ عِينٍ۬ (٥٤)
{Ref 44:54}
مُتَّكِـِٔينَ عَلَىٰ سُرُرٍ۬ مَّصۡفُوفَةٍ۬ۖ وَزَوَّجۡنَـٰهُم بِحُورٍ عِينٍ۬ (٢٠)
{Ref 52:20}
حُورٌ۬ مَّقۡصُورَٲتٌ۬ فِى ٱلۡخِيَامِ (٧٢) فَبِأَىِّ ءَالَآءِ رَبِّكُمَا تُكَذِّبَانِ (٧٣)
لَمۡ يَطۡمِثۡہُنَّ إِنسٌ۬ قَبۡلَهُمۡ وَلَا جَآنٌّ۬ (٧٤)
{Ref 55:72-74}
وَحُورٌ عِينٌ۬ (٢٢) كَأَمۡثَـٰلِ ٱللُّؤۡلُوِٕ ٱلۡمَكۡنُونِ (٢٣)
{Refer 56:22} |
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