Studying Islam

<< Previous Page

Next page >>

Page 3 of 6

Reply to Topic

Printer Friendly

Author

Topic

Loveall

PAKISTAN

Posted - Thursday, April 7, 2005 - 10:27 PM

Dear Mikai,

QUOTE: I thought i would have a quick look at the oxford dictionary and I chose some defintions related to this topic, here they are below.

Sorry for being late as I did not read your post.

In the dictionary, there are only literally meanings. Please see in the books of Psychology. Why are you showing me the dictionary like children?

Please tell me what are the literally meanings of “Saom”? Is it to have hunger and thirst till evening in the month of Ramadhan? Similarly, tell me what are the literally meanings of “Hajj”? Is it to go to Mecca and Medina in the specified time and similarly many others? Do not please try to waste your time as a laywoman and do not show that you know only ABC or XYZ.

A SUGGESTION

It is better for a woman to put the question and convince individually their father, brother and husband, if married, to cover the concept at the gross root level rather than to waste their time to discuss at this site. I think it is not difficult to handle individually the father, brother and husband.

In this way, if all the individual solutions are added then a new collective one will obviously change the world.

oosman

USA

Posted - Tuesday, April 12, 2005 - 5:54 PM

Dear Loveall,

I would like to hear your arguments for why you think women are morons or not as smart as men are in general. Instead of lambasting others, please bring your reasons logically in the light of Islam.

xxbasxx

UNITED KINGDOM

Posted - Tuesday, April 12, 2005 - 7:09 PM

Thank you Oosman!... I quote

quote:
It is better for a woman to put the question and convince individually their father, brother and husband, if married, to cover the concept at the gross root level rather than to waste their time to discuss at this site. I think it is not difficult to handle individually the father, brother and husband.

i didn't like that ONE bit! whats that supposed to MEAN??

Salamz .xXx.

Loveall

PAKISTAN

Posted - Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 11:37 PM

QUOTE: Instead of lambasting others, please bring your reasons logically in the light of Islam (Oosman)

So far as the inevitability of my assumption of your belief in God having created something else and said something else is transparently concerned, you seem to be conceiving the message of Islam to be a fiction having a bizarre and aberrational relationship to the nature. It is difficult rather impossible for one, to understand the language of God and His prophet (sws), who remains absolutely struck off to understand that of even a common man. However God is Merciful and Forgiving.

In response to your post’s initial contents, “I would like to hear” you are ensured and reassured that it makes no difference at all if you or a few other ultra minority don’t like to hear even in the original light of Islam. Islam never says men and women are equal in all aspects and we must be brainwashed, internally as well as externally, to know some similarities, if pointed out by the religion, which NOT at all balance the matter same as many similarities of the vertebrates can never make them all equal in every sense. So we must never be dazzled and become overconfident to read some words of similarities of the two sexes somewhere and applying it universally everywhere.

If we say men and women are equal in all the aspects then what about the following checklist list given by Islam.

1. Adam (Aleh slam) was made by God Himself directly but Eve not like that, and commanded angels to do prostration to Adam (Aleh slam) but NOT Eve.

2. In history, Quran and Ahadith no example of even a single woman prophet. It may be due to the fact that most women can’t withstand the difficult situations and decide imminently.

3. Regarding the testimony two women equal to one man.

4. Right of man to do four marriages conditionally.

5. Right of husband to beat the wife conditionally but not the vice versa.

6. Right of the husband to divorce his wife at any time.

7. Distribution of inheritance, man having more shares than women.

8. Ban of a woman to enter Mecca and Madina without Mahram.

9. Just a few countable ladies vs many uncountable men, are distinguished and revered.

10. Women have NO attribute to Hoors of paradise.

11. Some other restrictions for women but not for men.

And so on so forth……………………………………………

Why do we overlook such matters to weigh with the others to find a resultant with its magnitude and direction? Only the commandment regarding the women testimony, divorce and beating the wife are sufficient to change the magnitude and direction that we have determined based on our conjectures and selfishness.

Regarding the testimony, why God is deputing two women? Women must be happy only if they are absolutely exempted, not to be the two. I mean, if God is giving concession to women then why summoning the two instead of one. On the other hand, why the women are attributing their Naqs in worldly affairs to the homes liabilities, children care etc while otherwise they do not want to stay at home considering their absolute right. Why is this incompatibility?

What about the women who come in the history spreading thorns (111:4), whispering (114:4) their hair knots, throwing rubbish and etc in the way of Holy prophet (peace be upon him), furthermore the wife of Prophet loot (Aleh-salam) and the story of queen of Egypt and Prophet Yousuf (Aleh-salam)? Why does the intellectual level of the women, certified by Quran, seem to be different from that of men who were against the truth? On the other hand just a few countable ladies vs many uncountable men, are distinguished and revered. What is the wisdom of God behind this fact??

Regarding human rights, all the muslims and non muslim are equal? Non muslims are more than muslims in the world and how we can convince them by Quran and Ahadith. Have we chalked out some programme for them or our understading of Islam is only limited to offering prayers, fasting, Zakat, Khairat, Sadqat, wearing the veil, going to Mecca Madina and finding the way where there is a will.

IS THE KNOWLEDGE ONLY QURAN AND AHADITH? If so then

a) A hadith- “Utla-bul ilmo wa lao kana bisseen” (Get knowledge if you were have to go to china too). What Islamic knowledge was present OR is present at China for which it has been attributed?

b) After one of the Ghazwat Holy Prophet (sws) decided to release the prisoners on the condition of being taught one Muslim by one non-muslin. What was that Islamic knowledge given by the non-muslims to the Muslims, on which the Holy Prophet (sws) had emphasised?

It would be quite injustice to mention and leave the third partner- neither he nor she or both he as well she, I mean the eunuchs of different varieties. What are their rights? Overall, they are also created, have the brain and live in this world. What about their intellectual level, in general while there is no difference of the three brains (man, woman and eunuch) seen, if put in a tray on the table, except some difference of size according to size of the skull.

If we all agree on our all the interpretations, Are we sure that we have convinced God too Who Knows all the afferent and efferent pathway at the different relay stations and synaptic transmission of our lustrous brain which is NOT put in a beautiful jar of the museum. God is the Lord of justice and Rabbul Aalameen, taking care of everyone according to one’s physical and mental capabilities. He has deputed every one for which one is created and He knows better than us.

QUOTE: i didn't like that ONE bit!

You have all the rights to say like that but never forget your adapted theory based on the BIG CONJECTURE only NOTHING ELSE……. What is your reason, you didn't like that ONE bit??

QUOTE: whats that supposed to MEAN??

Your approach seems to be like that of children but those who know how to wipe their nose, must understand very well if can’t, are referred back to the post to read again otherwise wait for the next reply.

The children must have the good diet, play and study if they want to be something to help or serve the humanity otherwise the society and competition will effectively ignore such talents falling prey to the bigotry at this age. This is my brotherly advice otherwise go ahead to see the changes of the climate and its untoward effects at the high altitude.

CONCLUSION: Islam never says men and women are equal in all aspects. Our selfishness has the gaze at the similarities only not the differences. “The evidence of prostration by angels to Adam (Aleh slam) NOT Eve, the commandment regarding the women testimony, divorce, beating the wife and the intellectual level of the women certified by Quran different from that of men who were against the truth and no evidence of woman prophet, reflect the difference of intellect too between men and women”

For gaining one percent we loose ninety-nine per cent, which we do not know to show the results, therefore perhaps God says (103: 2).

Edited by: Loveall on Monday, April 25, 2005 8:05 PM

Mikai

UNITED KINGDOM

Posted - Sunday, April 17, 2005 - 1:15 AM

Asa wb

Wow that was pretty deep. I see we hit a sensitive spot. Brother as much as you are trying to get us to understand your opinions using our child like minds (as you basically put it), as a Muslim you are not doing a very good job of putting it in a polite way as well as trying to convince women.

The deeper you go into your explanations the more you intentionally insult us, i have a feeling you seem to be enjoying this and have your head held high, i can imagine your head expanding with pride! Are you even talking from an Islamic perspective anymore or simply enjoying insulting all women using Islam as a backbone?

Well that is a wise way of getting me to repect you as a brother and as a Muslim. A Muslim should be aiming to get sisters/brothers to appreciate Islam and see the beauty behind it, not getting them to see an ugly side that doenst exist but is brought on by so called Muslims who cannot debate in a way as not to anger others.

So you are not happy that i looked at the dictionary, well i do opologise for that but there was no reason for you to attack me in such a low way. How about simply saying "sorry sister i was looking from a different view or blah". No, but you had to go down that hill when you know how sensitive sisters are about being told they have less intellect and intelligence then men. Yes that was very clever.

Please answer some questions of mine below if you dont mind so i can understand your views on women more:

Do you understand why sisters debate about this issue? Can you see where they are coming from?

What do you think of women personally? Are they pathetic creatures compared to men because you seem to be implying that?

What do you think God sees women as compared to men? You said that Adam pbuh was created first and Allah Swt asked angels to prostrate to him.
Does Allah Swt favour men over women as well?

I remember you mentioning in one of your replies to me (that you deleted) that women have periods and give birth and go through pain etc. Do you see this as a punishment from Allah Swt?

Lastly i opologise if i have said anything to insult you in this reply.

I hope that your next reply will be more pleasant to read and bear in mind i know that you see women as less intellectual and intelligent then men by now so please do not use my form of replies to hint it further.

Loveall

PAKISTAN

Posted - Monday, April 18, 2005 - 12:41 AM

Dear Mikai

You must all discuss with one another without mentioning me. If someone asks any question then I will have to reply. It must be known that I am passive not active.

Furthermore you will have to hear the opposing views even if you are right. These are discussions forums otherwise any one of us must leave, as there is no other option.

Mikai

UNITED KINGDOM

Posted - Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 10:01 PM

Asa wb

I dont think you are getting my point. Opologies if im wrong. But brother your replies are actually insulting and i feel they are done intentionally. There is a way of replying without insulting anybody. We have to remember we are all Muslim sisters and brothers here.

Let me give you an e.g.

Quote from my reply earlier: Adam must have said to her, "i know better than you, i have more intelligence!!!"

I simply used Adam and Eve's story as an indication that they may have the same level of intellect and intelligence. You should notice that by mentioning this i did not try to degrade men but try to show men and women being seen on the same level. If Eve truly had the same level of intellect as Adam then Adam obviously wouldn't feel belittled because Eve is the same as him not better than him.

But when you replied:

If you are taking the example of Adam (Aleh salam) why you do not say Adam was made by God himself directly but Eve not like that, and asked angels to do Sajda to Adam but not Eve. Moreover creation of Adam primary but that of Eve secondary and His disobedience due to Eve primary and Adam secondary.

I personally felt that you were taking it further by implying that Allah Swt also favoured men over women because according to you men are blessed with more intellect and intelligence by Allah Swt.

As far as i know Allah Swt has not given reasons behind why Adam was created first and not Eve, why angels were asked to prostrate to him and not Eve, and why he was created directly and not Eve. What is important here is that Allah Swt did not say that He did it this way because he favoured Adam above Eve or because Adam has more intelligence and intellect. So it doesnt bother me at all. It was just the order He wanted to do it in, big deal. Remember in the Holy Qur'an it says that Allah Swt sees men and women equally.

All that is valuable to me is that Allah Swt created me, it doesnt matter how and when. What is important is that Allah Swt gave a part of Him (His spirit...?)to both men and women, i can't remember the actual verse from the Holy Qu'ran but it was something like that.

The next thing i noted was that you brought up a whole list of things about women, like their menstruation cycles and child birth etc. Again you used these in a way to show women being less favoured than men and personally i felt that you were indicating that Allah Swt was punishing them. Correct me if im wrong.

Lastly when we reply to your comments you reply back using our form of answers as an indication that we definently have less intelligence/intellect then men. I personally feel this is insulting because you seem to be indicatiing that our intelligence/intellect is not just lower than men but even lower that we cannot discuss issues or even have the capability of understanding at all even if we tried.
----------------------------------------

OK you obviously see us as being ignorant and find our views and opinions baseless because basing our answers on the Holy Quran and reality is not enough. I repect that areas of study on human beings also play some part which is where you seem to be mainly coming from. So i would like to know more.

You mentioned psycology, so i will start there. Are you a graduate in Psycology? If not then to what levels do you understand psycology and if you dont mind, what are you studying these days? I think in another thread you said you were a doctor right?

I would like to get your answers first and then i will ask my next questions to learn more.

Edited by: mikai on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 10:15 PM

Edited by: mikai on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 7:23 PM

oosman

USA

Posted - Thursday, April 21, 2005 - 1:17 PM

assalam mr loveall.

after reading your comments, which btw have nothing to do with this topic or my question, I skimmed through the holy Quran and could not find anything that states that women are not as smart as men.

what you are saying is women are not same as men. obviously it does not take a genius to understand that, women are physically and psychologically different from men. the question here is are they just as smart as men or not. i never claimed that they are equal in all aspects. we are just talking about intelligence.

i do not see anything in the holy quran that corroborates your views at all of women being stupid. what you are saying has no religious basis at all, please stop spreading ignorance.

may allah guide us.

Bhavittre

PAKISTAN

Posted - Friday, April 22, 2005 - 2:10 AM