| Author | Topic |
atifrafi
PAKISTAN
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 Posted - Monday, March 7, 2005 - 8:18 AM 
Salaam,
I have just joined this forum and haven't read the complete thread but just wanted to share onething about the topic.
I have just read that the Prophet (sws) did not gave permission Hazrat Ali (rt) to marry again with someone else and He also said that if Hazrat Ali (rt) want to marry 2nd time, he has to Divorce my daughter, i.e. Hazrat Fatima (rt)
Now, If the Prophet (sws) can stop Hazrat Ali (rt) for his second marriage, why now a man can marry without asking permission from his first wife.
If someone says that a man marry more than once because of the sexual reasons, then my simple question is why ALLAH created only ONE EVE for the Adam ? If one women is not sufficient, then ALLAH must have created more than one women for Hazrat Adam. |
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oosman
USA
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Posted - Tuesday, March 8, 2005 - 5:29 PM
Walaikum salaam,
Do you also know who this woman was whom Ali (rta) wanted to marry? The daughter of the prophet's sworn enemy. Your story is totally out of context here, the reason he did not let him marry a second woman was not because he did not like polygamy - how can the prophet practise something and preach something else? The reason was because of the relation of the prophet to this woman's father. May be you should do some research on it first. |
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atifrafi
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Wednesday, March 9, 2005 - 7:26 AM
Salaam,
Brother Oosman, thanks for the correction. Brother if you read my post, i wrote that I have just read it in some book which means I don't know the exact incident. I have quoted which I read.
Now, as you have said that the women was a daughter of an enemy of the Prophet (sws). Right now, i don't know anything about it so I agree with you, but still If I want to marry anyone, why should I go and ask from the father of my first wife ? Specially, if religion or my society allows me 4 marriages. If this is my right, why should I seek permission from anybody?
What do you say about the example of the Prophet Adam and Eve. |
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Bhavittre
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, April 22, 2005 - 2:16 AM
| There is no need of permission from first or previous wife in islam |
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Bhavittre
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, April 22, 2005 - 2:16 AM
| There is no need of permission from first or previous wife in islam |
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Yazmeenah
USA
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Posted - Friday, May 13, 2005 - 6:53 AM
| I agree jealousy is always blamed on shaitan. However, it would seem more proper and fair if women could blame human nature and the idea(not the fact) that man will always find interest in sex with others whether or not he engages? |
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Yazmeenah
USA
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Posted - Friday, May 13, 2005 - 7:02 AM
| Wow some of you ladies are like the ones who are the reasons for so many sects? I read the koran and listen to my Imam, read the sunnah and the hadith and ask for guidance and understanding..Wow that would make all of us more knowledgeable huh? Noone here has the Answer to any of the questions posed as it relates to the question of permission to marry..The prophet said...ITS BEST IF U HAVE ONE!!! so why all of the attitude? Please stop |
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hibah
USA
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Posted - Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 4:32 AM
I dont know why there is so much argument between Junaid and Osman. You guys seem to be sincere in your religion but sometimes I feel you go off topic.
Lets just concentrate on one issue at a time.
I agree with Yasmin, Koran clearly mentions: One is best for you if you cant treat 4 equally.
I have also visited a couple of websites which clearly mention that there is a definition for " treating equally" which in no way means "loving" them equally as it is not possible from psychological as well as Islamic point of view (Example of Prophet Mohammad (S) who loved Aisha (R) more than the other wives). So treating them equally means to support them financially, give them love, happiness, spend equal time with them,provide them with food and shelter....just like you provide for your first wife.
Now I know a muslim brother who said he wanted to marry a second wife simply because he wanted multiple partners for sex.This has always been his dream and fantasy.He also said he would not have any kids with the second wife, wouldnt give her any money,would spend only 2 nights out of the week with her and wouldnt take her out for dinner or on vacation like the way he treats his first wife. He continued to say that he would let the second wife know before marriage that she would have to treat his first wife with kindness,give her massages, cook food for her and take care of her kids. (in other words, be a nanny!) This muslim brother told his first wife how much he loved her and would die if she left him.That he would treat her like a Queen if she only let him marry a second wife as this was causing depression in his life.He said he enjoyed being with his first wife, had a nice sex life with her, but he was into multiple marriages and was afraid he would commit zinah if he wasnt allowed to marry a second woman.
Now his first wife was obviously shocked when she heard this from her husband.She objected to him marrying another woman.She said Prophet Mohammad (S) remained faithful to his wife Khadija (R) for 26 years and it was only after she died that He (S) married Aisha (R) and later had other wives but out of them only Aisha(R) was the only virgin wife.The rest were either widows or divorces.
So this muslim brother's first wife asked him how he would want to marry another woman only for lust? How did he prevent himself from Zinah when he wasnt married to her? How was he so strong then and now acting so weak? She said he didnt have to ask her permission to marry another woman, but ofcourse he shouldnt expect her to happily give him the permission nor would she ever be happy if he did so. She also told him she might consider divorcing him if such a thing ever happened even though she loved him and was truly faithful and loyal to him.She asked him to compromise on this issue and not make it the focus of his life or marriage.She was ready to change herself for her husband, be more obedient,care for him more,cook and clean more, take care of his needs more, even sexual needs etc etc. But the muslim brother said he was happy with her and was satisfied with the kind of relation they had with each other, it was just that he wanted multiple partners for sex for that is what satisfied him.He told her to let him bring another woman just to fulfill his sexual desires but his wife disagreed with him, she pointed out that Islam did not let husbands marry other women just for lust, when they were financially not stable enough to support the second wife, when they clearly had no intentions of treating the second wife justly and fairly and had no intentions of treating her as a wife, rather treat her as a sexual object to satisfy your desires and lust with. Moreover, she said according to the USA law (where they were living) he couldnt have 2 wives.Now how would a muslim man lie and cheat to the government where he was living to fulfill or act according to something he says is from Islam?? Does Islam teach you to cheat with the Government? What would he say to the law about his second wife?? Would he present her as his girl friend? Now is that "Islamic"??'
I think this is a very interesting story and we should all try to ponder over it and try to think rationally if we are really being good muslims or simply trying to use Islam for our lust and desires. Why cant we be patient and ask Allah to let us overcome certain weaknesses in our heart and soul.What if marrying a second wife causes divorce in this man's life? What if it totally ruins his first wife's life mentally and emotionally? Why doesnt he seem to care about her feelings? If he says he is getting depressed because of not getting his sexual desires being fulfilled by one wife, does he even wait to think how depressed his wife is just by thinking about his future wife?
If he says men are created this way that they have more sexual desires then he should also try to think from women's perspective.....women are created in a way that they tend to feel jealous and insecure about sharing their loved ones with anyone else.What about her feelings??
What about the compromise that so many couples make in marriage? His wife didnt get all that she wanted out of this marriage, but did she ever think about leaving him? Was she ever disloyal to him? Did she ever cheat on him? NO! Never!!
Then why cant the husband compromise too? Why does he such a big deal about this issue?
Frankly speaking, I think this muslim brother is kind of immature and childish to think that any normal woman would want to marry him with the terms and conditions he has imposed. And I think he knows it deep inside what an unrealistic plan/idea it is.
YOu are never going to believe what else this man suggested. He recommended that his first wife pretend in front of his parents that she was separated from him so that his parents would allow him to bring another wife.He said his parents would never let him marry another woman because they were agaisnt polygamy.Can you believe it?? But his wife said she would never be foolish or stupid enough to act on this plan.Her husband also said that he doesnt want to let the second woman know that he is already married......only after he marries the second wife would he tell her about his first marriage and infront of his parents he would act innocent and say " mom she left me, I was lonely so I needed another wife.But now my wife is back and I cant do nothing but keep her" This way he said he would finally be able to have 2 Wives!!!
Look at this man, how manupilative he is and how he Misuses Islam or rather Abuses it!
Shame on him and on all those men out there who are thinking about polygamy through lies and deceptions. |
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Bhavittre
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 12:52 AM
i have heard, no permission required……..
without permission of the wife man can do four marriages even the fifth one if he divorces one. married man cannot wait for the days of menses and the next wife should be ready. |
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hibah
USA
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Posted - Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 5:30 PM
Bhavatt, how can you say "men can't wait in menses, and need second woman during that time"?
I think you need to do more research on this topic and just look around,do you see men with multiple partners because they couldn't wait during the menstrual cycle of the first wife??
If this was true, then you wouldn't find any man with just one wife.
Last but not the least, PLEASE dont stereotype the male gender.If you really are that desperate then just speak for yourself or relate to some example, personal experience etc. |
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oosman
USA
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Posted - Monday, June 20, 2005 - 8:56 PM
Assalam alaikum hibah & Bhavittre and everyone else,
Islam is silent on many things, permission from a wife is one such thing. However that does not mean one can go about abusing the system. The story of the person Hibah narrated makes me sick to the stomach. If you love someone, you do not do things that offend or hurt that person, even if that action is allowed. If you still do it, then it shows how inconsiderate and selfish you are.
You read the sura Nisaa and you can clearly realize that the purpose of multiple marriages is to support the orphans and poor women. That is the underlying theme. Since the Quran does not explicitly prohibit marrying women for lust or for a reason that is not charitable, and polygamy was widely practiced during that time for all kinds of reasons, most scholars concluded that it is allowed to have multiple wives no matter what the reason (charitable or for one's lust).
Having said that, I would also like to point out this verse in sura Nisaa:
Quran 4.27: Allâh wishes to accept your repentance, but those who follow their lusts, wish that you (believers) should deviate tremendously away from the Right Path.
It gets quiet clear that to follow one's desires, lusts (shahawaat) and inner-self; this is not the Islamic way.
In the end, it is left up to the individual. If, like in the story Hibah narrated, a man follows his lusts, and treats the faithful wife like crap after all she has given him, then he should be mindful that Allah subhaana-o-ta`ala is swift in taking account and inflicting punishment. Allah is Aziz-un-Zuntiqaam. A pious Muslim man would be fearful of God, have taqwa, and would not be unjust to his wife. He would not hurt his wife like this. Allah loves His creations, the obedient wife is also one such creation. If her husband hurts her, then he has hurt Allah's creation. How can a person like this expect to be close to Allah when he hurts Allah's creations and is inconsiderate towards their feelings?
In a Friday sermon I heard that Abdullah-ibn-Abbas, a companion of the prohet and later a great scholar and interpretor of holy Quran, he used to be afraid of asking his wife of his rights on her. He feared Allah and thought that if he demanded his rights that she was neglectful of, then Allah would hold him accountable for all the things he was neglectful of in fulfilling his obligations towards her. This is the level of taqwa we all should have.
May Allah guide us to the straight path. |
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Loveall
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 11:08 PM
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
QUOTE: married man cannot wait for the days of menses and the next wife should be ready.
There must be some difference between the humans and animals. Sex is always related to mind. If the mind is dirty even more than four wives are not enough otherwise as I have mentioned above one is sufficient. Remember that basic theme of multiple marriages is not the sexual satisfaction.
QUOTE: Since the Quran does not explicitly prohibit marrying women for lust or for a reason that is not charitable.
Sorry to say, use of the word LUST is a big stain on the Shariah. If you say, “Since the Quran does not EXPLICITLY prohibit” Do not you mean that one can break the arms and legs of someone with foot because foot is not explicitly mentioned in the Shariah but the with one’s hands and tongue one must not hurt others. Isn’t it?
QUOTE: He feared Allah and thought that if he demanded his rights that she was neglectful…..
No doubt both have rights on each other. Regarding the sex, if she is not in urge of the sex, for the time being, there is absolutely No sin on her part to refuse her husband and if the husband does, according to me, it is an unnatural sexual offence, even per vaginum, like the other unnatural sexual offences. In general, all the unnatural sexual offences are major sins and are labelled as crimes to the nature.
The sexual intercourse without urge of a wife is unnatural and always painful therefore must be avoided. In these conditions, if the problem persists consult the doctor who may think on the both sides either to normalise her sexual urge or decreases the hyper sexuality of the husband. It must be remembered that the male hyper sexuality is a very important symptom or sign of some psychotics’ disorders. So it must be kept in mind that any one who want to do more than one marriages without popper indication as said by Islam but just for enjoying the sex, his mental state must be evaluated to know the underlying abnormality.
Wassalam with the SAYINGS OF GOD:
And the believing men and the believing women, they are guardians of each other (9: 71).
Edited by: Loveall on Friday, June 24, 2005 11:36 PM |
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Bhavittre
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, July 1, 2005 - 2:35 PM
Dear hibah
You said……….. relate to some example, personal experience etc.
if you are married you are best example because you cannot deny yourself but others……
if you are unmarried you will know better than me after the marriage. but most wivese donot know about their husbands therefore give such statements. remenber any man wishing to marry second third of fourth time will never make request to his wives. if any wife dares she is immediatly divorced. |
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Abinzain
SAUDI ARABIA
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Posted - Saturday, July 2, 2005 - 6:38 PM
Salamo alaikom
God allows four marriages and how many women allow their husbands to obey God for marring a widow or the orphan girl. It is a fact that no women will allow. So why should a man ask his wife for the permission while she is never willing. So women accept or not it is understood that permission of the first wife is not all required- neither God nor his prophet (peace be upon him) had said for the permission.
Peace
Dr. Abinzain |
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hibah
USA
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Posted - Saturday, July 23, 2005 - 1:11 AM
I fail to understand Bhavittre!!! What does the discussion have anything to do with me being married or unmarried for that matter??
Its a general discussion.....I still dont understand how women can please men, men who think about having sex with 4 wives is the issue here and I dont think a man can marry 4 wives JUST for sex and then bring up Islam for his actions. Lets say hypothetically, he does marry all 4 of them. My question is in this day and age how will he:
1. Support them financially
2. Emotionally
3. Religiously
4. The law of America is clear on Polygamy, which is not allowed under any circumstances.Even if you hide such things, even if you dont get a license for the other marriages, according to USA law you can be put in jail on the basis of Civil Court!!!!
Anyone wants any references? So all you men out there WATCH OUT!!!! |
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SananK
USA
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Posted - Saturday, July 23, 2005 - 2:18 AM
Assalamu Alaikum brothers and sisters. I find this topic very interesting. These days its rare but still done, having more than one wife. Is it for pleasure?
Was this to help the woman out? Or for pleasure? I think this day an age "probably majority" of the time marrying more than one wife is done simply out of pleasure. How can a man nowadays treat one wife equally to the other? Do they get bored with one, is that why they need another and use religion as an excuse to get another one? I dont know. I know I haven't really seen a marriage to more than one wife for a reason to help the other woman out nowadays. I have lived and visited Saudi Arabia, seen and heard some of the kings/princes having tons of wives. However, those wives came from noble families with no financial problems. So, how is that possible? Pleasure right? If it's only for pleasure, is that permissible? Doesnt seem reasonable. I know when i get married inshAllah, I would devote everything to one wife alone rather then marry another one. Because nowadays, multiple marriages might be misleading unless there is a SOUND REASON for that cause which is hard to find.
Assalamu Alaikum :) |
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