| Author | Topic |
Mikai
UNITED KINGDOM
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 Posted - Monday, May 2, 2005 - 6:16 PM 
Asa wb
to loveall and bhavitre especially
I found these tips interesting. Not all tips apply to this discussion but i thought i might as well include them. my intention is not to give you tips really but to help you understand what i was trying to get across earlier. Whether you agree or disagree let me know. the tips that i mainly am looking at are from tip no. 9.
Fifteen Tips for Muslim Men talking about "Women in Islam"
Guidance for Muslim men on how to deal effectively with the stereotypes and misperceptions about women in Islam.
Sadly, some Muslim men make the problem of outsiders' perception of women in Islam worse without realizing it, instead of clarifying the issue. This is rarely, if ever, done intentionally. However, what’s clear is that some guidelines are necessary for brothers when talking about the issue of women in Islam. Here are some suggested tips:
1. Let the sisters speak
No matter how well-spoken, eloquent or intelligent a brother is, the bottom line is this: he is not a Muslim woman.
That means no matter how much you, as a Muslim man tell a non-Muslim woman how wonderful hijab is, it will be harder for her to accept this because you have never worn Hijab and you are not a woman.
Whenever possible, have sisters answer questions pertaining to Islam and women.
2. Be careful of mixing up the ideal with the reality
One non-Muslim writer once remarked how when talking to Muslims about Islam compared to the West, Muslims take the ideal of Islam and compare it to the reality of the West.
The fact of the matter is there are very ugly realities when it comes to the treatment of women in many parts of the world, including the Muslim world. Muslims must recognize the reality of domestic violence in the community, even though Islamic ideals would never condone such ugly behavior.
3. Don’t sacrifice speaking out against injustice in the name of protecting Islam’s "image"
"Tackle the issue and the image will take care of itself," advises Sr. Kathy Bullock, a convert to Islam based in California. Don’t fall into the tendency to ignore pressing issues for the sake of protecting Islam’s reputation.
In other words, if someone brings up the issue of honor killing in Jordan, acknowledge the reality but make it clear that this is a sin and a crime in Islam and as a Muslim you condemn it. This in itself is enough. Trying to justify or make excuses for it or covering it up is not going to score image points for Islam.
4. Don’t respond to unspoken accusations
A number of times, Muslims automatically start an apologetic tirade defending the status of women in Islam before a person has even said a word. Let the other person initiate questions, and answer calmly and confidently. You may be responding to an accusation that was never even in the person’s mind in the first place.
5. Ask WHY
Do this before launching an apologetic tirade against any accusation. For instance, a man in Spain once approached a scholar, saying he felt Islam was a man’s religion. Before rebutting him, the scholar asked him why he thought this way. The man replied that whenever he looked at mosques, he saw only men.
By knowing why, you can develop your answer accordingly, and tackle the issue head-on in an honest and direct way.
6. Agree with people as much as possible
Start off agreeing with a person. It will completely turn the tables on the discussion, as many people begin discussions on women in Islam assuming Muslims are completely against the notion of women’s rights.
7. If you don’t know something SAY SO
If a person tells you they’re from X country you’ve never heard of and Muslim women are treated in a horrible fashion what can you say about it?
I have never heard of that, and I don’t know are simple enough. Don’t start apologizing, or denying that it happens. Tell the truth.
8. Don’t be condescending
In Islam, looking down on a fellow human being is a sin, whether the person is a male or a female. Don’t think you know all there is to know about women in Islam, and don’t speak in this manner either. Allah does not love arrogance, and only Allah has full knowledge of all things.
9. Don’t interrupt
This is a problem in a number of cultures, men interrupting women and other men when they speak. Not only is this rude behavior, it takes away from your message. People are less likely to listen to you if you come across as a rude boorish individual. Don’t do this to others, especially sisters.
10. Don’t assume all Muslim sisters are the same
Just because your mom, who was born and brought up in a Muslim country, and has never had a problem with hijab does not mean that other Muslim sisters have the same experience.
Muslim sisters are as different as brothers, as are their experiences with issues like hijab.
11. Become more attuned to the "new Muslim woman"
Muslim sisters today are not the same as those of yesterday. Many Muslims sisters know more, and they prefer more interactive lectures as opposed to the passive style normally used. If you’re giving a talk, be ready to have interjections from Muslim sisters. Welcome these, don’t shun them.
12. Choose your words very carefully
If you’re doing a presentation on women’s issues in Islam or responding to a basic question, make sure to choose your words extremely carefully. Know the exact dictionary meaning, as well as the meaning in everyday usage. Words are extremely powerful, and they leave an imprint on the hearts and minds of people. You want that imprint to be positive, so be careful.
13. Actions speak louder than words
You can speak beautifully about women in Islam on behalf of the Muslim Students’ Association (MSA), but if throughout the year, sisters have been denied access to the prayer room, or the right to participate in decision-making in the MSA, then think of how silly your talk is.Make sure your personal and organizational behavior falls in line with your words.
14. Don’t stereotype all Western women
"Table dancers" or "cheerleaders" is how one Muslim sister described the way Muslims tend to stereotype all Western women. Let’s not forget: we hate it when Muslim women are stereotyped as oppressed, so we should not be doing the same to others.
And lest we forget, a growing number of Western women are becoming our Muslim sisters, and very practicing ones at that.
15. Seek women’s perspective on issues
You know mom, who loves you so much and makes your dinner? She’s a woman. Your sister in school? She’s a woman. If you’re blessed to be surrounded by practicing Muslim sisters in your home, take advantage of this by seeking their views on issues like hijab, domestic violence, community participation, and media stereotypes. There’s nothing like hearing the truth presented from those who truly live it.font=Comic Sans MS]
Edited by: mikai on Monday, May 02, 2005 6:27 PM |
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oosman
USA
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Posted - Monday, May 2, 2005 - 9:06 PM
| thank you, this was very enlightening. |
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Loveall
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Monday, May 2, 2005 - 11:51 PM
QUOTE: It's irritating to see that even though you seem to have so much knowledge in Islamic issues you do not know how to present it.
We are discussing not individually but generally. I admit, individually you and all other men and women may be more intellectual than me.
QUOTE: This is a problem in a number of cultures, men interrupting women and other men when they speak.
How can women solve their problems by discussing alone? Today you are saying interruption but what about that day when you called me back when I deleted all my posts.
QUOTE: Ask WHY
Asked many times but nobody could argue. Regarding the current situation of women rights I agree they need support but not by all means for example one woman is equal to one man in stead of 1:2 ratio, regarding the testimony (2: 282)
QUOTE: Agree with people as much as possible.
Regarding the agreement, see below what GOD SAYS:
· And if you obey most of those in the earth, they will lead you astray from Allah's way; they only follow conjecture and tell a lie (6: 116).
· And most of them do not follow (anything) but conjecture; surely conjecture will not avail aught against the truth; surely Allah is cognizant of what they do. And this Quran is not such as could be forged by those besides Allah, but it is a verification of that which is before it and a clear explanation of the book, there is no doubt in it, from the Lord of the worlds. (10: 36, 37)
I ask a question to Mikai,
When you knew that I was not going to discuss further why you again addressed me?
May Allah Help us
GOD SAYS:
And they (servants of the Beneficent God) who say: O our Lord! Grant us in our wives and our offspring the joy of our eyes, and make us guides to those who guard (against evil) (25: 74)……………..Aameen. |
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Bhavittre
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Wednesday, May 4, 2005 - 10:34 AM
Mikai……salwat
<<< you said…….. No one taking part in this discussion has any right to say their views are correct and the other brothers and sisters are wrong.
why no right for clear meaning of quran. you are again wrong and biased……..
<<< you said …….. There are many different views on this Quranic verse by many intelligent people who make very good points.
what intellegent people who are made flashed totally blind…... you mean by making the good points- changing the meaning to flatter or please the women or some else. you looking here to be very much naïve and ignorant…… yur assessment is pretty wrong…….
<<< you said …….. Lets say that that the Qur’an and hadiths indicate women having more intellect than men.
I donot believe in any hadeth because the only source of islamic knowledge is only quran and of course quran say…… men are excelled…. in every aspect
<<< you said…... Fifteen Tips for Muslim Men talking about "Women in Islam"
some points are good but in this world they have no value. Ask your relatives to stich these points on your white sheet of cloth when you die….. may be you get some relief there if god likes……
<<< you said…... Let the sisters speak.
who asked not to speak. they alredy consider themselves of high moral values….. and therefore they donot need to spoil there time with you. therefore they are more respectable unlike you.
<<< you said…... Be careful of mixing up the ideal with the reality.
for realites people are eager to know about the realities of muslims who live in the nonmuslim countries. please tell the realties to make us understand their intentions……
<<< you said…... Don’t interrupt
you have no right to say. it is not your drawing room, mind it…… so be careful to pass such coments next time. you are again wrong and selfish…... I disagree wth you and all those who favour you.
<<< you said…... Don’t sacrifice speaking out against injustice in the name of protecting Islam’s "image"
of course you are using islam in the wrong direction to support yoursels otherwise you have nothing with islam as the social worker told. you are again wrong……..
<<< you said…... Don’t respond to unspoken accusations
I could not understan this………..
<<< you said…... Ask WHY
give me the email adress of some wise person who is neutral I will ask why. Also give me the email address of Sr. Kathy Bullock who like you lives in a nonmuslim country.
<<< you said…... Become more attuned to the "new Muslim woman"
you want to say new islam for a new muslim woman. I donot believe becus islam is one. You are trying to create sect and hatred. Keep yur realties with you….. donot make others astray…..
<<< you said…... make sure your personal and organizational behavior falls in line with your words.
What about your liar organization which contradict quran. I took your some good advices. I thank you. I donot believe in any hadeth because the only source of islamic knowledge is only quran which say men are exelled in every aspect. you are wrong…..
<<< you said…... There is one good way I can think of to give you a much better understanding and that is to put yourself in a woman’s shoe.
what about the man’s shoe is…. which causes you to knead rubbish on the keybord.
Oosman……. Salwat
your meanings are also wrong…… you cannot change the world by flattering the woman. |
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Bhavittre
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Wednesday, May 4, 2005 - 10:34 AM
Mikai……salwat
<<< you said…….. No one taking part in this discussion has any right to say their views are correct and the other brothers and sisters are wrong.
why no right for clear meaning of quran. you are again wrong and biased……..
<<< you said …….. There are many different views on this Quranic verse by many intelligent people who make very good points.
what intellegent people who are made flashed totally blind…... you mean by making the good points- changing the meaning to flatter or please the women or some else. you looking here to be very much naïve and ignorant…… yur assessment is pretty wrong…….
<<< you said …….. Lets say that that the Qur’an and hadiths indicate women having more intellect than men.
I donot believe in any hadeth because the only source of islamic knowledge is only quran and of course quran say…… men are excelled…. in every aspect
<<< you said…... Fifteen Tips for Muslim Men talking about "Women in Islam"
some points are good but in this world they have no value. Ask your relatives to stich these points on your white sheet of cloth when you die….. may be you get some relief there if god likes……
<<< you said…... Let the sisters speak.
who asked not to speak. they alredy consider themselves of high moral values….. and therefore they donot need to spoil there time with you. therefore they are more respectable unlike you.
<<< you said…... Be careful of mixing up the ideal with the reality.
for realites people are eager to know about the realities of muslims who live in the nonmuslim countries. please tell the realties to make us understand their intentions……
<<< you said…... Don’t interrupt
you have no right to say. it is not your drawing room, mind it…… so be careful to pass such coments next time. you are again wrong and selfish…... I disagree wth you and all those who favour you.
<<< you said…... Don’t sacrifice speaking out against injustice in the name of protecting Islam’s "image"
of course you are using islam in the wrong direction to support yoursels otherwise you have nothing with islam as the social worker told. you are again wrong……..
<<< you said…... Don’t respond to unspoken accusations
I could not understan this………..
<<< you said…... Ask WHY
give me the email adress of some wise person who is neutral I will ask why. Also give me the email address of Sr. Kathy Bullock who like you lives in a nonmuslim country.
<<< you said…... Become more attuned to the "new Muslim woman"
you want to say new islam for a new muslim woman. I donot believe becus islam is one. You are trying to create sect and hatred. Keep yur realties with you….. donot make others astray…..
<<< you said…... make sure your personal and organizational behavior falls in line with your words.
What about your liar organization which contradict quran. I took your some good advices. I thank you. I donot believe in any hadeth because the only source of islamic knowledge is only quran which say men are exelled in every aspect. you are wrong…..
<<< you said…... There is one good way I can think of to give you a much better understanding and that is to put yourself in a woman’s shoe.
what about the man’s shoe is…. which causes you to knead rubbish on the keybord.
Oosman……. Salwat
your meanings are also wrong…… you cannot change the world by flattering the woman. |
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oosman
USA
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Posted - Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 7:27 PM
I stumbled across this report about the human brain and the differences in male and female brains. Dr Witelson and Dr Harvey worked with human brains. Dr Witelson has been conducting research on human brains for over 30 years. She has a collection of more than 100 human brains in her lab, taken with the permission of terminally sick patients with their permission after they died. Dr Harvey has the brain of Albert Einstein still preserved.
In short the report says the male and female brains are formed different. At birth they are very similar, but later environmental factors and feedback from our actions affects its development, especially in childhood and the middle age. Where as the male brain is on average bigger than female brain, but female brain is more dense with neurons in certain areas than the male brain. This gives men and women the same intelligence and intellectual capacities on average, becuase it is the neurons in the brain that do its work. So men and women are equally smart even though their brain structures are different.
They also found that Einstein's brain is different from the other peoples' brains they had. The part of the brain responsible for mathematics and conceptual thinking is 15% bigger than average, even though Einstein's brain is smaller than the average male brain. So they deduced (also using other samples) that size of the brain does not make you more intelligent. In this part of Einstein's brain, there were more cells servicing each neuron than the other brains they studied. Another difference they found in his brain was that two lobes of certain part were joined at birth, which does not happen to everyone.
Anyway, I suggest that you all read this report for the sake of gaining knowledge. These scientists have done decades of research so please respect their views and work.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/latimests/20050616/ts_latimes/deepdarksecretsofhisandherbrains |
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Mikai
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 10:26 PM
Asa wb
Very interesting what you posted Oosman. Yeah this was something i learnt in science at school long ago but i just recently been reminded of it in a course i am doing now regarding how children learn and develop. I learnt that neurons have alot to do with how a brain works, and how a brain takes information in and makes sense of the information recieved from one of the 5 senses of the body. It's very interesting to see evidence of proper research on the differences and similarities between female and male brains. Its nice to hear that evidence seems to show that in terms of intelligence and intellect men and women are the same. Only Allah Swt knows.
Edited by: mikai on Thursday, June 16, 2005 10:36 PM |
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Loveall
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, June 17, 2005 - 12:11 AM
DO NOT BE DAZZLED, I shall read the article of the link, and come tomorrow or day after tomorrow, inshallah.
Wassalam |
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oosman
USA
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Posted - Friday, June 17, 2005 - 2:02 AM
What do you mean by 'do not be dazzled'? No one is dazzled.
I look forward to your comments on the report, inshallah we can have a good, friendly discussion. Please keep in mind that all of us have right to our own opinion and we should not force it upon others. We should all agree to disagree if thats is the case. Let there be no compulsion in religion. |
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Loveall
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, June 17, 2005 - 8:48 PM
| I shall comment only on the link given, nothing else. Wait Please. You can show the link to some other concerned person to know the actual results. You are right, regarding no compulsion in the religion (2: 256) you have all the rights to disagree |
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Bhavittre
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 7:29 AM
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Bhavittre
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 7:30 AM
| the men favuring the women rights are never redy to hear from the mouth of their wives. they only want to become the heros……… |
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oosman
USA
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Posted - Sunday, June 19, 2005 - 4:44 PM
Dear Bhavittre,
It would be nice for the discussion if you would actually make an effort to read what I said first. Also it would be effective if you actually read the reports whose links you have given. It seems you did not even read your own links.
One of the links you gave states:
"These two very different neurological pathways and activity centers, however, result in equivalent overall performance on broad measures of cognitive ability, such as those found on intelligence tests. "
One link does not work. Other links do not say anything about who of men or women is more intelligent. The last link about the professor (the urdu page), this professor has already retracted his statements.
Please do not bother to copy paste some links if you will not even read them. You cannot appreciate reasoning and will stubbornly stick to your own doctrine. So God help you. |
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Loveall
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 11:11 PM
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
In context of the subject of the forum, the work of Sandra Witelson is on the AUTOPSY (post mortem examination) findings of the brain NOT the living one but if have any pre-autopsy clinical data why not she is confident and displaying for the purpose rather than to have the assumptions on the basis of Anatomy and Histology of the two brains.
What actually she pointed out was the gross anatomical (structural) similarity, which I had already pointed out in some post earlier “There is hardly any anatomical difference seen by the naked eye, among the brain of men, women and the eunuchs except some difference of the size according to that of the skull” After using her naked eye, when she put slides of the brain tissue under the microscope she found some typical histological differences between the two sex i.e. the females had more dendrites (AFFERENT Limb NOT the EFFERENT one) making connections with the axons.
This increased number of dendrites is under the influence of female hormone-Estrogens, may be as a compensatory phenomenon VS that of men having less dendrites (none compensation), while the male hormone- Testosterone lacks this function. These two hormones are present even at the time of intrauterine life otherwise the sex differentiation can never be made, showing that the differences are present since birth. Although present since birth the level of these two sex hormones is increased much at the time of puberty to cause the typical changes while their derangements causes the eunuchs like features.
Another similarity she described is that of the two cerebral hemispheres (right and left) of the same individual BUT The left cerebral hemispheres is dominant in the right handed person and the vice versa. The paragraph is as following.
“The TWO HEMISPHERES (right and left) of the brain are almost symmetrical physically but can seem to be separate minds when it comes to awareness and mental processing. They even have different problem-solving styles, researchers report. Yet they WORK TOGETHER seamlessly to produce a single mind” Her this work was after her saying, “How does the structure of the brain influence intelligence?”
Regarding her sentence on the basis of “Women's brains, for instance, SEEM TO BE faster and more efficient than men's” I have already pointed out in my posts earlier that women may be more intelligent and it is our observation that they not the sometimes but often obtain more marks in the examinations BUT actually this was not at all the subject of our discussion.
If it is said, Witelson determined that brain volume decreased with age among men, but hardly at all among women. Moreover, those anatomical changes appeared to be closely tied to a gradual decline in mental performance in men. "There is something going on in the male brain," she said, "that is not going on in the female brain." is NOT IN GENERAL. It is only in context of some diseases of brain, which are more common in men like some other diseases, which are more common in the females.
HAVE YOU NOT READ in the controversies??
She herself remained in doubt. See below HER OWN CONTROVERSIES.
1. Once she said, “Witelson is convinced that gender shapes the anatomy of male and female brains in separate but EQUAL WAYS BEGINNING AT BIRTH but afterwards she said, “The brains of men and women are indeed DIFFERENT FROM BIRTH”. What is this??
2. “She turned again to the brains in her refrigerator. Wherever she looked, she began to see evidence of how microanatomy might underlie variations in mental abilities”. What is this??
OTHER CONTROVERSIES.
1. IN RESPONSE TO HER SENTENCE, “What is astonishing to me," Witelson said, "is that it is so obvious that there are sex differences in the brain and these are likely to be translated into some cognitive differences, because the brain helps us think and feel and move and act”
The neuroscientist RICHARD HAIER SAID,
“If you find that men and women have fundamentally different brain architectures while still accomplishing the same things, WHO CONDUCTED THE STUDY, "this CHALLENGES the ASSUMPTION that all human brains are fundamentally the same.
2. “Yet, for the most part, scientists have been unable to document such patterns conclusively”
3. If it is said, “No one, however, had scrutinized as many brains as Witelson” then she is here herself admitting her limitations of accuracy of the results as the following.
a) “In an era when people probe the thought process with scanners, radioactive tracers and super-conducting sensors, Witelson's approach was deliberately OLD-FASHIONED”.
b) “Witelson could conduct comparative brain studies on an UNPRECEDENTED scale”
BY THE WAY
Why did Witelson deliberately use the old-fashioned techniques in the presence of scanners, radioactive tracers and super-conducting sensors and why not she is relying on pre-autopsy clinical data which was sufficient for the purpose rather than to have the assumptions on the basis of Anatomy and Histology of the two brains?
CONCLUSIONS:
AFTER HER OWN CONTROVERSIES AND EVEN THOSE OF OTHERS
Especially the neuroscientist Richard Haier who said, “If you find that men and women have fundamentally different brain architectures while still accomplishing the same things, WHO CONDUCTED THE STUDY, “this challenges the ASSUMPTION that all human brains are fundamentally the same”, AND, “Yet, for the most part, scientists have been unable to document such patterns (devised by Witelson) conclusively”
Ultimately she surrendered herself before the facts and could not defend herself in the world when faced the people knowing and researching more than her and the international literature and formulated the conclusion with her own hands as the following.
SHE, ULTIMATELY, FORMULATED THE FOLLOWING THEORY
“Slowly, she formed a theory: The brains of men and women are indeed different from birth. Yet the differences are subtle. They might be found only among the synapses in brain structures responsible for SPECIFIC COGNITIVE ABILITIES”
These specific DIFFERENCES are due to:
1. In the males, two testes which are extra-abdominal responsible for the masculinization.
2. In the females, two ovaries which are intra-abdominal responsible for the feminization.
The differences can only be abolished when both the gonads have the same anatomy, gross as well as the macroscopic, and the physiology etc.
And see below what God says and what facts reveal because He knows better than us:
“The evidence of prostration to Adam (Aleh slam) NOT Eve, the commandment regarding the women testimony, divorce, beating the wife and the intellectual level of the women certified by Quran different from that of men who were against the truth and no evidence of woman prophet, reflect the difference of intellect too between men and women”
QUOTE: Anyway, I suggest that you all read this report for the sake of gaining knowledge. These scientists have done decades of research so please respect their views and work.
Such things are NOT NEW for me but for the laymen and laywomen. Mind it, the link favours my arguments not yours. You misunderstood it like some advertisements on the TV, newspapers etc which dazzle the common men and common women but not the technical ones who laugh.
QUOTE: Its nice to hear that evidence seems to show that in terms of intelligence and intellect men and women are the same.
Read the link again as well as my post in detail otherwise gets proper training in the research methodology and then gives your opinion.
QUOTE: We all agree to disagree.
How many, less than 5 or more? Take the majority with you and go ahead in the world, if you do not fail and do others throw your views in a huge dustbin.
A QUESTION (By the way):
What is the practical application, if after just A FEW men and women, the people all over the world say verbally about the subject what you want?
Out of thousands, SEE THE FOLLOWING LINKS (With some of its text below):
http://www.cerebromente.org.br/n11/mente/eisntein/cerebro-homens.html
By Renato M.E. Sabbatini, PhD
That men and women are different, everyone knows that.
But, aside from external anatomical and primary and secondary sexual differences, scientists know also that there are many other subtle differences in the way the brains from men and women process language, information, emotion, cognition, etc.
One of the most interesting differences appear in the way men and women estimate time, judge speed of things, carry out mental mathematical calculations, orient in space and visualize objects in three dimensions, etc. In all these tasks, women and men are strikingly different; with many more males, as they are too in the way their brains process language.
On the other hand, women are better than men in human relations, recognizing emotional overtones in others and in language, emotional and artistic expressiveness, esthetic appreciation, verbal language and carrying out detailed and pre-planned tasks. For example, women generally can recall lists of words or paragraphs of text better than men.
http://www.sfn.org/content/Publications/BrainBriefings/gender.brain.html
“Other research suggests that, on average, the female brain performs better on some skills while the male brain executes other tasks AT A HIGHER LEVEL. For example, tests show that women generally can recall lists of words or paragraphs of text better than men. On the other hand, men usually perform better on tests that require the ability to mentally rotate an image in order to solve a problem”
It must be remembered that these are not the only but thousands of more links.
NOTE: If you have neither the Islamic knowledge nor that of science, stop speaking like an ignorant or layman and laywoman. It is nowhere in Islam that man and women are equal in all aspect even the intellect, and the translations and the interpretations made by a just a few scholars are more than 100% WRONG because there is a real compatibility of the natural scientific facts and the saying of God otherwise we indirectly do not accept the truthfulness of His sayings. So the facts in the Quran and the facts of the Universe can NEVER be different which some people try to forge but the truthfulness finds its way itself, Subhan-Allah.
QUOTE: Brother Oosman you can believe anything you like your belief DOES NOT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE. It is not same brain! We are in 21ST CENTURY so INSTEAD OF "THINKING" AND MAKING guesses, see what research tells us. This has been scientifically proved that there is major difference between male and female brain you find these studies on the website NOT FROM MULLAS but from WESTERN UNIVERSITIES, you will find hundreds of such research if not thousand (Askhalifa February 13, 2005)
Thank you brother Askhalifa. You are requested to please teach them few words of the technical language too so that they may understand if meet the requirements.
CONCLUSION:
Although women are faster in some aspects but in general men have more intellectual level. It must also be remembered that the differences are natural and the purpose of the work on the brain is never to label any one superior or inferior but to discover new ways to explore the brain differences in the benefit of the treatment of diseases, the personalized action of drugs, different procedures in surgeries, etc.
If some one disagrees, Is willing, for example, to suggest to give women the same treatment strategy proposed by the scientists as that of the men OR, Are women willing to take the same treatment as that of the men??
Wassalam with the saying of God:
· You who believe! Surely from among your wives and your children there is an enemy to you; therefore beware of them. (64: 14).
· And they who (who repents, believes and do a good deeds) say: O our Lord! Grant us in our wives and our offspring the joy of our eyes, and make us guides to those who guard (against evil) (25: 74). |
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oosman
USA
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Posted - Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 2:05 AM
Walaikum assalam mr loveall.
At first I was glad that you took the time to read the article. But now after reading your reply, I feel that you are trying to attack me because I do not share your belief and you cannot substantiate your own belief with any evidence, either from the holy Quran or from scientific publications. This kind of intolerance is unjustified and deplorable. These are your remarks:
Quote: If you have neither the Islamic knowledge nor that of science, stop speaking like an ignorant or layman and laywoman
I am offended by this. Allah knows who has more knowledge and who is more ignorant, myself or you. You should not call others ignorants when you have no knowledge of such a thing.
Quote: Although women are faster in some aspects but in general men have more intellectual level.
Well, you keep saying that but you have failed to provide any scientific research work or publication to prove this statement of yours. You are not an authority on this subject and I cannot take your word for it. Give me some research work evidence of scientists. If you say that there are many publications that support men are smarter than woman, then please provide some evidence. I have already provided my evidence from Dr Witelson's work, and she says that both men and women have similar capabilities to solve problems, even though they have different approaches of doing that. Where is your evidence to the contrary?
And the link you provided, it does not say men are at a higher intellectual level. It says men and woman are different in their thinking and problem solving methods. It does not say who is more efficient. We all already agree that men and women are different, please provide evidence to your claim that 'men have more intellectual level.'
There is no contradiction about the statements of Dr Witelson.
Quote: Once she said, “Witelson is convinced that gender shapes the anatomy of male and female brains in separate but EQUAL WAYS BEGINNING AT BIRTH but afterwards she said, “The brains of men and women are indeed DIFFERENT FROM BIRTH”. What is this??
She said male and female brains are different at birth and the development of both brains is in equal ways since birth. What is the confusion?
Quote: Why did Witelson deliberately use the old-fashioned techniques in the presence
She counted the number of neurons in regions of the brain using her microscope. Tell me of any 'modern' way of doing that with machines?
Quote: the intellectual level of the women certified by Quran different from that of men
Ahem! Where in the Quran is certified that the intellectual level of the women is inferior to that of men? This is ludicrous!
The holy Quran never says that men are smarter or wiser than woman or that woman are dumb. Please do not put your own words into the Quran. Where the law is given for testimony of one man equal to two women, Allah subhana-o-taala quickly gives the reason that one woman may forget so the other can remind her. It does not say that women are morons and intellectually deprived. Please do not put your own words in it. Where the holy Quran talks about inheritance and share of two daughters equal to one son, it does not say why. Do not introduce your own logic as to why when Allah does not say why. Also the mother can get equal share as the father from their child's inheritance, hence woman is getting equal rights as man. It proves that intellect has nothing to do with gender.
QUOTE: Brother Oosman you can believe anything you like your belief DOES NOT MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE. It is not same brain!
I agree it is not same brain. The debate is whether the male and female minds have same intellectaul and cognitive abilities or not.
Quote: Although women are faster in some aspects but in general men have more intellectual level.
Evidence please?
Please remmember that the argument here is not that men and women have the same minds or not. We all know they are different. The debate is that are the women intellectually deprived over men? My argument is that despite having different brains and different approaches to tackling the problem, the female brain and male brain are equally proficient at cognition and posses similar intellectual abilities. There is no scientific evidence to the contrary.
Your turn.
Invite all to the Way of your Lord with wisdom and fair preaching, and argue with them in a way that is better. Truly, your Lord knows best who has gone astray from His Path, and He is the Best Aware of those who are guided. Quran 16.125 |
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umarbaig
INDIA
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Posted - Friday, June 24, 2005 - 9:17 AM
Respected dears Makai, Loveall, Oosman and others
AOA
In which capacity you are all explaining the health topic? Follow the instructions of world health organization (WHO) then do. This is not the noble Quran and noble hadith where every body has the right to explain his/her own understanding.
Be careful.
Sincerely,
Umar Baig |
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