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sisterinislam
UNITED KINGDOM
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 Posted - Friday, October 17, 2008 - 4:48 PM 
sallams
in addition to the above post sister khan the reasons for the chairs and broken lines is not due to the ladies ages but lack of knowledge of how to perform salah in jammat if this is how ladies behave then no wonder our prophet s.a.w said the best place for a lady to pray was alone at home.
astigfirallah all muslims and grant us ilm hidayat |
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hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Saturday, October 18, 2008 - 12:42 AM
some interesting reponses as below to the comments of the brother who objected on this. also i hv come across the fact from a bit of my own research and from one of jag's Q&A that the jummah pryr was supposed to be lead by the ruler of the state(obviously keeping in mind the original purpose of this prayer, where the ruler/governor/sheriff of that area not only gives a piece of moral advice to the local public, but also touches on current affairs etc. if we are not living in those circumstances and imams of individual masjids are leading this prayer, then we will have to find a good reason to make this issue gender dependent) let me know if different thx.
wassala'm
h
AA
I for one am still waiting for our respected Ulema to come up with a rational and thorough rebuttal of Sr Amina's opinion. Sadly those published by Yusuf Qaradawi, Hamza Yusuf, the Grand Mufti of Saudi Arabia and others have all been so poor that thy only serve give weight to her stance. If anyone has something more robust I would be pleased to see it.
Wassalam
Dawud
Dawud Bone
Muslim Chaplain
The University of Warwick
024 761 50667
d.bone@warwick.ac.uk
If this topic is going to be dealt with in a good way let us start off by observing good adab. Sr Amina has, to my satisfaction at least, produced an explanation for her opinion that is AT LEAST THE EQUAL of those rebuttals by the biggest names from amongst the recognised Ulema. If there is a sound and thorough rebuttal this must of necessity be completely free of disparaging terms such as 'so called female ulema'. The issue itself must be addressed and not the character or competency of those presenting their opinions. This is precisely the mistake that has rendered many of the responses so far useless. It should be beneath any genuine scholar to attack an individual rather than their argument.
I could easily respond to these one line comments as could many other brothers and sisters but it would be much more productive if someone could post a full and detailed response so that all comments are relevant rooted in ilm. May Allah guide us all and make all safe from each other's pens and tongues.
Dawud Bone
Muslim Chaplain
The University of Warwick
024 761 50667
d.bone@warwick.ac.uk
salam
you are right amar "um Waraqa" requested permision to lead prayer within household as no male was capable of that there and then. permissin was granted for this purpose.
the fact that she had to ask for permit for excemption from the general ruling and the conditional approval, clearly shows the ruling.
basil
AA
In addition, can anyone shed any context to this statement by Taj Hargey, "…even within the Hadith there is a woman called Umm Waraqa whom the Prophet allowed to lead prayers in a household and to teach her neighbour."
WS
AMAR
salam
pleaase remmeber that rules regarding leading jama'at prayer are different to those regarding leading juma'a. it is not the one who knows most quran that lead juma'a. remember hazret Omar may allah be pleased with him led juma'a when he was the leader although many others knew more quran than him. Zayd the man who was in charge of combiling the quran in one book at the time of the first and third khaleefa was never reported to have lead Juma'a in madeena!
the story of um warqa was about jamat prayer not juma'a.
allah knows best
basil
salaam
doing a web search is hardly seeking an answer on this issue, but here is one. Am going to actually do some further reading. I dont dispute the most versed in Quran should lead salaah, my issue is if it was permissible for sisters to lead men in salaah than why wasn't it widely practised in the Prophet's time?
http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?cid=1119503549612&;pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaEAskTheScholar
AA
I remember being intrigued to read in Khalid Abu al Fadl's intro to Amina Wadud's Gender Jihad, that Gamal al Banna (younger brother of Sheikh Hasan) had written a book in her defence.
In this interview Gamal Al Banna has an interesting perspective on the issue,
"The name of my fourth book [on the status of women] is A Woman Is Permitted to Lead Men in Prayer and it is about what happened in the U.S., when Amina Wadud led Friday prayers and gave a sermon.[Many] fatwas stated that she was an apostate, while I have proven that this is permitted. This is because the Prophet determined that the one most worthy of leading prayers is the one who is the most thoroughly versed in the Koran. He determined that a young boy could lead adults in prayers, because [the boy] was the most thoroughly versed in the Koran. He stated that a slave or a non-Arab who converted to Islam [mawla] could lead prayers for the senior Sahaba [Companions of the Prophet] because he was the most well-versed of them all in the Koran... That is, the one qualified to lead prayers is the one who is well-versed in the Koran. If a woman is more well-versed in the Koran than the men, is it logical that we should prefer an ignorant man over a well-versed woman, arguing that he is a man and she is a woman? Islam does not recognize this discrimination between men and women, particularly on the issue of the commandments that are between the individual and his God..."
Before you draw any conclusions, I'd recommend you read the full interview;
http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&;Area=ia&ID=IA33407
Ws
mazhar |
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mbellos
NIGERIA
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Posted - Saturday, October 18, 2008 - 8:15 PM
| Assalamoeleikumwarahmatullah.Dear Sisterinislam, we must not discourage sisters from coming to mosque. It clearly looks that these pictures are taken during nafil prayers and not during a Jamat because everyone is doing their own prayer.Our muslim sisters can stand in queue to buy food for children, to pay bills and also they learn in schools and colleges how to stand in queues. They surely know how to stand in a line in front of Allah subhanahutala. We must take things positively.Even in the Mosque where we live, older ladies need chairs to sit because we all know that women's bones get weaker earlier. |
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sisterinislam
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Saturday, October 18, 2008 - 8:56 PM
assalamu alaykum wa rahmatullah wa barakahthu.
dear sister mbellos you can make whatever excuses you wish but im sorry the posting of these pics is wrong according to islam.
as for the status of the prayer whether it be nafl or prayer in jammat there is still the question of the comment by khan re the broken lines and chairs maybe we should stop anyone who has to use a chair from going to the mosque so we can take nice photos of our sisters to post on the internet for men to ogle at. the sisters who have done this are creating temptation for weak men. there is a sahi hadith that tells of the prophet s.a.w saying to his wifes that they should cover even in front of a blind man they asked why because he cant see us the prophet s.a.w said no but you can see him. On the day of qiyamat Allah will say to the makers of pictures that they should breath life into them.also sahi hadith and if it was nafl why raise the issue of broken lines in the first instance. pictures of living beings with eyes are haram.
Please forgive me if i have offended anyone with my replies this is not my intention but it is my duty as a muslim to point out what is an obvious wrong and sin. I care for my sisters in islam and pray for jannat for all of us inshallah. |
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hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Monday, October 20, 2008 - 7:41 AM
S;salam and welcome to SI forums 
Looking at the context of the whole discussion on this forum, women and children have been encouraged to attend masjids for eid and fri prayers in order to learn about deen, children's part of training and for community cohesion.
As for the use of pictures/photographs here or anywhere else, we ought to understand its whole concept. Shariah/Islamic Law has nothing to do directly with pictures, music or any other art nor does it interfere directly in any of these. What it discourages is their evil use e.g. for idolatory, neudidity, promotion of drugs,violence, war etc. |
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sisterinislam
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Monday, October 20, 2008 - 10:14 AM
Assalamu Alaykum
Dear sister Khan I am sorry and Allah forgive me if i am wrong but i am certain if you asked any learned scholar regarding the issue of Photography of living creatures except plants and also regarding musical instruments as mentioned by you they would all agree they are haram and could provide numerous hadith and versus of the quran to prove this
i think in my last post i provided some and there are many others.
frishta or angels do not enter the house where there is pictures is another one. Dear sister please seek more knowledge on this subject and i am sure you will find that your present opinion is wrong. i also do not understand how you can say that the subject has nothing to do with islamic shariah these are the rules of Allah and orders given by our Holy Prophet Mohammed s.a.w surely this makes them shariah. |
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sisterinislam
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Monday, October 20, 2008 - 10:20 AM
Salams
sorry an addition to my previous post who encourages women to go to the masjid?? Allah says in Quran the best example for man is prophet mohammed s.a.w. whom muslims all over the world try to emulate. He s.a.w advised said, the best place for women to pray was in the home. Whos encouragment are we following?? It is no wonder the ummah is in the state of loss and disilluion it is.
May Allah guide us all to the siratil mustaqeem. ameen. |
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shahidas
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Tuesday, October 21, 2008 - 12:37 AM
I agree with sister HKhan that " shariah/islamic Law has nothing to do directly with pictures, music or any other part of art nor does it interfere directly in any of these ".
God Almighty has no shortage of words to lay out a specific law prohibiting such matters leaving no ambiguity.
If women feels she is better off going to mosque to learn or pray who are we to stop her.
everyone has to make a start somewhere, may be after some time a dedicated and keen person would want to learn more and more about religion when reaches a better level of piety, they can decide for themselves what is better for them home or mosque. As we gain more and more knowledge about Islam and keep purifying ourselves our innate divine feelings will guide us towards the right direction. what i am trying to say is please donot discourage any step towards learning or coming towards religion. Islam also discourages extreme views and Prophet ( pbuh ) also advised to follow the middle path ( miyana ravi ). |
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sisterinislam
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Tuesday, October 21, 2008 - 4:24 PM
Assalamu Alaykum
Dearest sister shahidah, please forgive me if it seems i am discouraging any muslim sister from following the right path or seeking knowledge and spiritual guidance, that is not my intention at all astigfirallah, all i am trying to put across is Allah has said it is incumbant on all insaan to seek knowledge i feel however that we as sisters are trying to encourage sisters to attend mosques for prayer and this is going against the advice given by our prophet s.a.w. Islamic knowledge is not only available in mosques it is widely available from many different vehicles eg internet library, womens groups etc etc. women have always been allowed to go to the mosque it was an advice from the prophet s.a.w to let them go if they wished and do not stop them. but members of the sahabah who were far more pious that muslims of today are known have discouraged this rather than encourage. there is also hadith narrated from hazrat Aisha may allah be pleased with her that she said if the prophet s.a.w could see the state of the women today he would have banned women from the mosque completely. do we think we are more pious that the women of those times I certainly dont. Yes let women make up thier own minds but tell them what our prophet has advised then let them choose the middle path.
again i ask please forgive me if i have offended anyone this is not my intention
and allah most certainly knows best.
your sister in islam |
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mbellos
NIGERIA
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Posted - Tuesday, October 21, 2008 - 6:14 PM
Assalaoeleikumwarahmatullah. Sisterinislam you are contradicting yourself by saying that the Prophet salawatuwasalam said not to stop women from attending the mosque but that the sahaba akra-m stopped them.so why will you ignore what Prophet said? Can you Please name the sahaba akra-m who stopped them. Circumstances are not good. There is Fitnah in the world nowadays as you say. But Muslim women still going around shopping, visiting relatives and friends, working, travelling. If they are moving around for everything else,taking their children along, why do you think they should be banned from a sacred place like Mosque or Masjid? So they just go to Leisure Centres and Cinemas and Shopping centres with their children, spend all the hard earned money of themselves and husbands there and not go to a spiritual place even on some days like Fridays and Eid where we hope that the lust for this world will remain low.
Have all the evil and lustful men left the Streets and Cinemas and Leisure Centres and Dancing Clubs and come to the Mosque to stare at their Muslim sisters and mothers? And not concentrate on Ibadah? Cant they see much more open in th estreets and shopping centres?
Sisterinislam Please use some common sense also and not only what you have read in traditional books. You have keep using your mind no matter how many books and Fatwa you read because Allah SWT and Prophet salawatuwassalam never asked us to stop using our minds.
Honestly.Sisters like you make them laugh and then make me cry!! I can only pray for our Sisters and mothers of the Ummah, including myself, to educate themselves better because they have to bring up a generation.
You are discussing on this Educational Website.Tell me Dear Sisterinislam How many courses have you done with them so far to improve your existing knowledge about Islam? The problem is Sister that we think and we are sure that we know everything and whatever we know is right and we dont need to know or learn anymore.
God bless you and us and guide us to the right path. Ameen. |
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sisterinislam
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Wednesday, October 22, 2008 - 8:44 AM
Assalamu Alaikum
Dear sister mbellos, please allow me to take your post point by point and also to provide you with hadith to back up my answers.
firstly there is no contradiction in what i have quoted re women should not be stopped from going to the mosque it is the first part of the hadith the second half is that but it is better for them to pray at home.
Narrated by Ibn 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said: “Do not prevent women (wives, mothers, daughters, sisters, etc) from (praying at) mosques. Yet, their prayer at home is better (for them).”
with regards your second point
Hadhrat khalid bin waleed (RA) who didnt liked his wife going to masjid. Tried to stop her and when she didnt agree to it, acted with wisdom hiding behind a tree and throwing stones at her after which she herself stopped.
Have we understood the deen or have we grasped the message of the prophet better than these sahaba? Just a thought for those people who argue about "women have the right to go to mosque". We all know that. Sahaba also knew that. Still we all can imagine the level of fitna at the time of sahaba compared to that of today. Even then they had the objection at that time. And if people object today, then they do only for these valid reason that some of the sahaba had at that time.
your third point regarding the activities of women eg going out shopping traveling alone.
Narrated by Ibn Mas'ud: Allah's Apostle said: “(Unveiled) woman is a cause of corruption. Once she goes out Satan beautifies her in the eyes of men (to seduce her as well as them). At her home, she is the closest (to the face) of her Lord.”
Narrated by Abi Ausaid Al Ansari: While Allah's Apostle was going out of the mosque he saw all men and women in the road. He told the women: “You should wait behind. You should not walk in the middle of the road.” The narrator said: “women afterwards used to walk so close to the wall so that their dresses often stick to it.”
Dear sisters please do not take my quoting this hadith out of context I am not saying women should not be allowed out I am trying to show the fitnah involved in her doing so and the steps she was advised to take if she did.
my next point refers to your information regarding women going out shopping to cinemas etc
Narrated by Ibn 'Abbas: Allah's Apostle said: "A woman should not travel except with a Dhu-Mahram (her husband or a man with whom that woman cannot marry at all according to the Islamic Jurisprudence)." A man got up and said, "O Allah's Apostle! I intend to go to such and such an army and my wife wants to perform Hajj." The Prophet said (to him), "Go along with her (to Hajj)."
Narrated by Ibn Jarieh said ‘Ata had told him when Ibn Hashim prevented women from performing Tawaf with men: how could he prevent them while the wives of the Prophet performed Tawaf with men?” I (i.e. Ibn Jarieh) said: before or after (the verse of) hijab (was revealed)? He said: “Upon my life, after hijab.” “How could they intermix with men?” I asked. “They didn’t,” he replied. “’Aisha used to perform Tawaf at a dividing space from men; she didn’t intermingle with them.”
Even performing the sacred rites of Hajj and umrah were kept segregated
have you been on hajj or umrah sister.
finally sister you quote to me regarding knowledge and education, i am deeply upset by your comments, just because i have only completed one course on this web site does not mean that i do not have some religious knowledge. you do not know what my status is regarding the educational courses i have or have not attended for all you know i could be sheikah hadith. although im not. but i dont think you have any right to comment on my level of education.
Narrated by Abu Huraira: A group of women came to Allah’s Prophet and said to him: “We cannot attend your majlis (gathering) of men, so, appoint us a day to come to you (alone).” He said: “We will meet at the house of so and so.” He went to them on the specified date and place. Among what he said at that day to the present women was “any woman who rises up three children for the sake of Allah will enter paradise.”
Allah and his prophet say if you see something wrong then it is a duty to try and change it in three ways i beleive that inshallah i have tried.
And allah knows best.
please forgive me if i have offended anyone this allah knows is not my intention.
your sister in islam |
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mbellos
NIGERIA
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Posted - Wednesday, October 22, 2008 - 5:51 PM
Assalamoeleikum. My Dear Sisterinislam. I appreciate your knowledge about sayings of sahaba akraam raziallahuan and you may be a Sheikha of Hadith but sheikhs of Hadith have already caused a lot of trouble by squeezing in the Deen which is Not! I apologise to say that you have still not been able to reply to my Question of using common sense and keeping the sayings of Quran Kareem and the Prophet salawatuwassalam on top of everything else.
The problem with Muslim Ummah is that we have included a lot in the Simple Deen of Islam in the name of Islam which is not the part of Deen. Deen is only what came from Quran and the Practices of the Prophet salawatuwassalam. It does not matter what Khalid bin Waleed told his wife or threw pebbles on his wife to stop her from Mosque.... Such stories have sadly molested the face of our beautiful Deen. We must not try to make Shariah from the sayings of Hadith because it is not.
I request you to read my previous post again and ponder. Jazakallah. |
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hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Thursday, October 23, 2008 - 7:13 AM
Its good to see diverse opinions from members on these forums and everyone is free to express themselves  |
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sisterinislam
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Thursday, October 23, 2008 - 8:17 AM
Assalamu Alaikum
Dear sister MBellos, firstly can i please point out to all that i did not say i was sheikha Hadith what i said was i am not. As for your views sister I agree with you that a lot of the so called scholars have diluted the teachings of islam and caused so much division and fitnah within the muslim ummah than i care to talk about astigfirallah.
This is precisely the reason although you seems not to see it I have taken sayings of the prophet and ayhats from quran to try and show you where i am taking MY guidance. May Allah forgive me but I have no confidence in the so called scholars molanas or muftis of today. However, as said previously I have attempted to show you what I feel is the right path by using quran and Hadith Hadith by the way is the actions and sayings of our beloved Prophet Mohammed and why you think i have not used these and the quran uppermost is beyond me please read my posts again and let me know how many sahi hadith i have quoted. It seems that you do not want to try and understand what i am trying to point out to you and i feel that with your blinded views there is no point in carrying on this conversation.
May Allah subannaa wa ta'allah grant all muslims taqwa and hidayat to the siratal mustaqeem, ilm and the hikmat to be able to understand that knowledge.
ameen. |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Saturday, October 25, 2008 - 4:46 PM
Assalamu Alaikum
quote:
Hadhrat khalid bin waleed..........acted with wisdom hiding behind a tree and throwing stones at her after which she herself stopped.
Is terrorising someone an act of wisdom? Is it permited in Islam?
Or do you want us to believe that the Sahaba were infallible?
quote:
......."A woman should not travel except with a Dhu-Mahram ...........
Off topic hadith because the discussion is on women going to masjid and not about travelling.
quote:
Ibn Jarieh said ‘Ata had told him when Ibn Hashim prevented women from performing Tawaf with men: how could he prevent them while the wives of the Prophet performed Tawaf with men?”...........
Who is Ibn Hashim you are talking about? Was he a Sahabi or something? |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Saturday, October 25, 2008 - 4:49 PM
quote:
Its good to see diverse opinions from members on these forums and everyone is free to express themselves
What for?
In order to arrive at the Truth I suppose. |
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