| Author | Topic |
Loveall
PAKISTAN
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 Posted - Friday, June 24, 2005 - 11:27 PM 
Dear Umar Baig
Assalamo Alaikum,
QUOTE: In which capacity, you are all explaining the health topic?
Everyone is responsible for one’s own quackery. I can tell only about myself but do not want to disclose my personal information here. I may let you know about my complete curriculum vitae, along with a link showing my capacity to explain the topic, if you provide me your email address.
Wassalam! |
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Loveall
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, June 24, 2005 - 11:31 PM
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
Hello! Mr. Oosman,
QUOTE: You keep saying that but you have failed to provide any scientific research work or publication to prove this statement of yours.
What a nonsense statement is? I gave you the links, just after your link, because it was easy for you to click and find the answer otherwise any Textbook and journal of Psychology/Psychiatry will give you the compact answer more than your expectations. Well, I am wondered to know such a folly of yours.
QUOTE: Please remember that the argument here is not that men and women have the same minds or not. We all know they are different. The debate is that are the women intellectually deprived over men? My argument is that despite having different brains and different approaches to tackling the problem, the female brain and male brain are equally proficient at cognition and posses similar intellectual abilities. There is no scientific evidence to the contrary.
QUOTE: I agree it is not same brain. The debate is whether the male and female minds have same intellectual and cognitive abilities or not.
QUOTE: My argument is that despite having different brains and different approaches to tackling the problem, the female brain and male brain are equally proficient at cognition and posses similar intellectual abilities.
In one of my posts earlier I said, “Exceptions may be there but in general, the higher mental or intellectual functions does not mean to obtain marks 950 out of 1000 but comprise concentration, memory, intelligence and decision making (See Davidson and Oxford Text books) and the latter is poor in women than men”. And in this light how can you interpret the following two paragraphs of the links I have given?
1. One of the most interesting differences appear in the way men and women estimate time, judge speed of things, carry out mental mathematical calculations, orient in space and visualize objects in three dimensions, etc. IN ALL THESE TASKS, women and men are strikingly different; WITH MANY MORE MALES, as they are too in the way their brains process language. ON THE OTHER HAND, women are better than men in human relations, recognizing emotional overtones in others and in language, emotional and artistic expressiveness, esthetic appreciation, verbal language and carrying out detailed and pre-planned tasks. For example, women generally can recall lists of words or paragraphs of text better than men.
2. “Other research suggests that, on average, the female brain performs better on some skills while the MALE BRAIN EXECUTES OTHER TASKS AT A HIGHER LEVEL. For example, tests show that women generally can recall lists of words or paragraphs of text better than men. On the other hand, MEN USUALLY PERFORM BETTER on tests that require the ability to mentally rotate an image in ORDER TO SOLVE A PROBLEM” (decision making which is a vital component affecting various deeds in our lives.)
Are you a Lakeer ka Faqir and want the answer in a compact sentence i.e. “Men are more intellectual than women” like your understanding for example any one can harm others with one’s foot because Shariah does not mention foot anywhere but only hands and tongue? Isn’t it?
If you can not understand, I suggest you to please acquire the eligibility, fulfil the requirements, get proper training in the research methodology, then come and sit across the table to debate, and if you have done the all, calculate the values of your link and the let me know mathematically (vide infra) first then Inshallah I will do the same to show you the same.
QUOTE: I cannot take your word for it.
I have never asked you to take my words but have addressed the other people all over the world. So go ahead in the world, if you do not fail and do others throw your views in a huge dustbin.
QUOTE: Regarding the authority you mentioned.
God is only authority. To some extent, He bestows upon His people as well.
QUOTE: Give me some research work evidence of scientists.
What do you mean by scientists? Define “scientists” then I will, Inshaallah answer your question like that of the students of primary class.
QUOTE: I feel that you are trying to attack me.
Why do you feel so? I am not attacking you but keeping the other people, all over the world, aware of the subject.
QUOTE: I am offended by this.
According to my experience here, any one who does not get the answer what he/she has already forged in his/her mind, retches out to be feeling offended. Why so? I am sick of this word (offence) to see repeatedly everywhere. Some individuals are habitual of using this word while they themselves do the same.
By the way, what are you to be not apposed by anyone? If you feel offended what do you think about me not offended more than you?
QUOTE: Where the law is given for testimony of one man equal to two women.
Read Quran after fulfilling all the criteria- purification/cleanliness etc, you may surely find the answer.
Regarding the matter (2: 282), you have been disagreeing vehemently with some one in some other forum, now here you are in the opposite direction. What is the reason? I can show you the link.
QUOTE: Allah knows who has more knowledge.
Yes, Allah really knows. If a person like you who do not know even definition (scientific NOT common language because we are touching now the scientific facts) of intellect how can proceed further to know or interpret the facts. So I suggest you once again to please obtain the eligibility, fulfil the requirements, get proper training in the research methodology, then come and sit across the table to debate.
QUOTE: There is no contradiction about the statements of Dr. Witelson.
QUOTE: I have already provided my evidence from Dr Witelson's work, and she says that both men and women have similar capabilities to solve problems, even though they have different approaches of doing that.
QUOTE: Your Turn
Such things are NOT NEW for me but for the laymen and laywomen like you. Mind it, the link favours my arguments not yours if you know something about the research methodology. You misunderstood it like some advertisements on the TV, newspapers etc which dazzle the common men and common women but not the technical ones who laugh.
If you are really dazzled by the work of Dr Witelson who has NO defence at all in the world contact her (if alive) or her associates to provide the following information to let me know the facts mathematically because you have started first and do proceed on the scientific methods exclusively then Inshaalah I will do the same.
First is your turn because you have provided the link first. See below and come on, if you have indulged yourself deliberately in the scientific methods.
1. Name and address (mailing & email) of the person under the supervision of whom the study was conducted………………………
2. Type of the study……………………
3. Material & method of the study……..
4. Locality of the persons……………….
5. Estimated duration of the study………
6. Actual duration of the study………….
7. Total number of the persons …………
8. Mean age of the persons ……………
9. Median age of the persons:…………..
10. Total Number of males ………………
11. Total Number of females ……………
12. Race of the persons……………………
13. Occupation of the persons ……………
14. Religions of the persons ……………..
15. Education of the persons…………….
16. Marital status of the persons …………
17. Children………………………………
18. Details of the children……………….
19. Spouse (Alive or dead)………………
20. Parents (Alive or dead)……………….
21. Any physical disease among the persons…
22. Any addiction among the persons ……
23. How many did need any medical help?…
24. Any history of accident……………….
25. Any history of operation………………
26. The Tests used…………………………
27. Sensitivity and specificity of the tests…
28. Mental state findings…………………..
29. Cause of death…………………………
30. Duration between death and autopsy…..
31. True positive (relevant to the autopsy)…
32. False positive ………………………….
33. True negative………………………….
34. False negative…………………………
35. Formulae applied………………………
36. ABSTRACT…………………………..
37. DISCUSSIONS……………………….
38. BIBLIOGRAPHY…………………….
39. Any others……………………………..
40. Name of the Health journals where published (with Vol, Year & page No)…………I have read about the journal with NO detail required.
The above information must be in separate columns for the males and the female. I take your lamb interpretation of the work of your link NO more than a big zero if you do not proceed scientifically and answer properly as above.
Now it is your turn:
You are requested to recite the same Quranic verse.
Invite all to the Way of your Lord with wisdom and fair preaching, and argue with them in a way that is better. Truly, your Lord knows best who has gone astray from His Path, and He is the Best Aware of those who are guided. Quran 16.125.
Allah Hafiz!
Edited by: Loveall on Sunday, June 26, 2005 11:43 PM |
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oosman
USA
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Posted - Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 2:18 PM
Dear Mr Loveall, salaam.
The links you gave me DO NOT SUGGEST that men are intellectually superior to women. They ONLY SUGGEST that men and women are advanced in their own areas and specialize in different ways of problem solving. NONE OF THE LINKS suggest that either one has an edge over the other. You are already convinced that women are inferior so you keep reading this in those links.
Tell me, if what you were saying was true, then would we not have different exams for boys and girls, different SAT, GMAT, GRE, Matriculation exams, O'Levels A'Levels, etc? If men and women are really not at same intellectual level, then it is a great injustice to have them go through the same exams. Do you believe women should have to go through easier exams because their intellectual skills are not as developed as men's?
The whole world, the different schooling systems, they must be all very stupid and unfair to force girls, who are not at the same intellectual level as boys, according to you, to have to go through the same exams which require great deal of analytic and problem solving capabilities.
Women cannot physically compete with men in general, that is why we have separate sporting events. Women play their own tennis, hockey, football, etc, and men play their own games. Women do not play against men because that is unfair. But women and men have same intellectual capacity, so they can compete with men in analytical and studies related exams. |
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Loveall
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 2:58 PM
| This is not a Nura Kushti (Hit and trial). Referred to, please, my post (latest), if have got the proper training. |
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Loveall
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 2:58 PM
| This is not a Nura Kushti (Hit and trial). Referred to, please, my post (latest), if have got the proper training. |
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oosman
USA
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Posted - Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 3:09 PM
You can believe your unfounded and baseless arguments if you want to Mr Loveall, I do not think I can waste my time on you any more. And please refrain from personal attacks (calling me layman and cunning and the like and saying 'intellecutals like yourself laugh at people like me). You should not tuant another Muslim like that. Salaam.
49.11
O ye who believe! Let not some men among you laugh at others: It may be that the (latter) are better than the (former): Nor let some women laugh at others: It may be that the (latter are better than the (former): Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by (offensive) nicknames: Ill-seeming is a name connoting wickedness, (to be used of one) after he has believed: And those who do not desist are (indeed) doing wrong. |
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Loveall
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, July 2, 2005 - 12:25 AM
Aauzo, be-Allah-hey,min-a-Shytan-ir-Rajeem
Bism-e-Allah-e- al-Rehman-e-al-Raheem
And they have no knowledge of it; they do not follow anything but conjecture, and surely conjecture does not avail against the truth at al (Al- Quran. 53: 28)
Mind it; this is a lesson for you; do not try to indulge yourself in the matters about which you know nothing.
If you assume to be attacked, no one is doing so but keeping the others, all over the world, aware of the facts, which you were trying to interpret pretty wrong as a layman. By the way, what are you to be not apposed by any one while you know nothing about the subject but a conjecture?
If you assume to be laughed at, no one is doing so but you have been yourself inviting the others to do the same. Think for a while, if a layman neither feels ashamed nor embarrassed, the others will laugh or do something else?
Regarding your question (about 2: 282), “Where the law is given for testimony of one man equal to two women?” click the following link and ask yourself to know the answer.
http://www.studying-islam.org/forum/topic.aspx?topicid=1211&lang=&forumid=1
Are you here in the opposite direction because there is some other person (me) in this forum? Isn’t it? Can we label this some sort of the cunningness?
Why are you telling about A level, O level, this level and that level while I have already cleared these things and said same or even better in the women? Why could not you understand what I did mean?
Once again; do not try to indulge yourself in the matters about which you know nothing. You will feel neither attacked, nor offended and be laughed at. By the way, who people have such negative thinking like being attacked, offended or being laughed at etc and furthermore having such an attitude of a layman?
If you have no time, remember; do not reply otherwise I have much time in addition to my other liabilities.
Regarding your statements, see below what God says:
Why do you say that which you do not do yourself? (Al-Quran. 61: 2) |
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oosman
USA
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Posted - Saturday, July 2, 2005 - 2:03 PM
>>> Are you here in the opposite direction because there is some other person (me) in this forum? Isn’t it? Can we label this some sort of the cunningness?
I was here in this forum long before you were. I am not here because of you. YOu judged me as cunning, while you have no right to judge my intentions. May Allah forgive you for judging me like that.
>>> Mind it; this is a lesson for you; do not try to indulge yourself in the matters about which you know nothing.
YOu are arrogant Sir, and Allah does not like arrogance. What makes you think you are an expert on this matter and I am a layman? Perhaps I know more than you, and Allah knows best.
>>> If you assume to be laughed at, no one is doing so
YOu have said so before that intellectualls like yourself laugh at laymen like me. What arrogance! You have labelled yourself intellectual and me a layman? Who made you the judge of that?
>>> Why are you telling about A level, O level, this level and that level while I have already cleared these things and said same or even better in the women?
So make up your mind. Are women same intellectually as men or not? Stop flipping flopping. Sometimes you say women are intellectually deprived, sometimes you say they are as intelligent as men. Both statements cannot be true at once! YOu seem confused. What is your stance on this issue?
>>> Once again; do not try to indulge yourself in the matters about which you know nothing..
If I knew everything I would not be here. Unlike you I am not arrogant and I do not claim to be expert on this subject. Unlike you, I do not label others laymen, perhaps Allah has give others more knoweledge than me.
You sir degrade others by your remarks of calling them laymen. This is arrogance and Allah does not like arrogance.
If you wish to preach others and teach them good things, you need to address them politely. Calling others laymen and cunning is not helpful when you are trying to get someone to understand your message.
Peace! |
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Abinzain
SAUDI ARABIA
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Posted - Saturday, July 2, 2005 - 6:34 PM
Salamo alaikom
MEN ARE MORE INTELLECTUAL THAN WOMEN.
See the following medical journal for the latest original research with complete abstract, discussion and bibliography.
Name of the journal: J IBSP Psych.
Year: 2004
Author: Simon Baron
Topic: The essential difference: Human male and female brains and the truth about autism.
Page 124-7.
There are many other journals and books, which give the clear concept of men’s intellect stronger than women but the above mentioned journal has the clear words - Men are intellectually stronger than women as the following in the same words.
*This study reveals the scientific evidence that proves female brains are better at empathizing and communicating, while male brains are stronger at understanding and building systems. At last, leading psychologist Simon Baron confirms human male and female brains are different in cognition and intellect with males having the stronger abilities*
Library of any medical institution may help.
Peace
Dr. Abinzain |
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Loveall
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Sunday, July 3, 2005 - 6:52 AM
Dear Dr. Abinzain,
Thank you very much for the valuable post for those who really know the things.
************************
Dear Oosman,
Very simple is that, like you assessed me the arrogant I assessed you the layman otherwise neither your forehead is visible to me where it is written, “Layman” nor my forehead is visible to you where it is written “Arrogant”. Isn’t it? ? If God hates arrogance, does He loves the quackery and forgery you are doing?
You have expressed another folly of yours to say that you were present here before me. Yes I know but it does not mean that the first person has all the rights to forge whatever he/she likes to make the others fool too. Coming before me in this forum, if you really have the right, go ahead in the world, if do not fail and do others throw your views in a huge dustbin.
As usual HERE, I am arrogant just because I have not agreed to your syllogism or submitted to you instead of God and you can’t answer my questions? Isn’t it?
You say that you know about the subject, therefore are here otherwise not. I do not believe at all. One (like you) who do not know specifically even the definition of intellect; cognition or higher mental functions how can further explain the topic otherwise must read my post again and answer what I have asked.
If you are really not trying to be over clever, see my post and go ahead on the scientific basis so that I may change my assessment. |
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Loveall
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Sunday, July 3, 2005 - 7:09 AM
| I am sorry, if any body felt hurt or offended. We are all brother and sisters. It is not unusual among even the real ones. |
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oosman
USA
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Posted - Sunday, July 3, 2005 - 2:15 PM
>>>> As usual HERE, I am arrogant just because I have not agreed to your syllogism or submitted to you instead of God and you can’t answer my questions? Isn’t it?
No, not at all, not arrogant because you did not agree with me. YOu are arrogant because you think you are 'intellectual' and others are laymen and you think you can laugh at laymen. YOu think you are someone special and superior. That is why I think you are arrogant, and Allah knows best.
>>> You say that you know about the subject
I never said I know about the subject. I said you have no right to judge me that I am a layman. How do you know what I know and what I do not know?
>>> If God hates arrogance, does He loves the quackery and forgery you are doing?
If you think research work done by scientists for decades is quackery, then you can think what ever you wish to think. I am not forcing you to think otherwise, neither can I.
>>> You have expressed another folly of yours to say that you were present here before me.
YOu were saying that I am on this forum just because of you. My answer to that was 'no', because I was on this forum before you were, I am not here because of you. I have been posting here before you came.
>>> I have not agreed to your syllogism or submitted to you instead of God..
What you think is what God said, is it really what God said?
Today that is the problem of fundamentalism. People start believing that what they believe in is what God said, and hence it must be true. This is circular logic. There are so many different interpretations of 'what God said'. How do you know your interpretation is the correct one? There are so many schools of Islamic thought, 4 major ones. How different they are in their interpretations of Quran majeed and hadith literature, we all know that. After that to believe that your own interpretation is correct, or the school you follow is correct, and all others are wrong, that is intolerance for other's right to their belief.
The Sept 11 hijacker's believed that killing people in planes and slamming them into buildings with more people is a righteous thing to do. Khalid Sheik believed that blowing up American passenger airliners over the Pacific ocean is a righteous thing to do. Gul Hasan of Lashkar-e-Jhangvi believed that blowing up shia worshippers in their bargah is a righteous thing to do for the sake of Islam. Their beliefs were strong. They thought only they are right. A person gets so hard headed that only his belief seems right and everyone else's becomes wrong.
Even in the scientific community today, there are many differences. Scientiets agree and disagree on many issues, but they are not hard headed.
As for whether or not men have higher intelligence than women, you can find numerous articles and publications to support either way. To believe that only one side is accurate and not give any weight to the other side is narrow mindedness.
Here is a research publication that investigates why men believe they are more intelligent than women in general. It also states that men perceive themselves better in spatial reasoning and women in interpersonal intelligence, arts, etc. (like mr loveall said). It says that the mean estimate across all the aspect of intelligence is no different between males and females. What that means is men are better at some things and women are better at other things, and the combined level of intelligence is same for both genders. Of course it depends on how you interpret what is intelligence.
http://www.cis.gsu.edu/~ghubona/gender/gender3.pdf
At the end it cites numerous references to other research papers. I do not have access to these but I would like to read them, especially papers from N Brody. |
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Bhavittre
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Thursday, July 7, 2005 - 1:49 AM
oosman,
stupid men for stupid women…quran |
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Bhavittre
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Thursday, July 7, 2005 - 2:02 AM
| MEN ARE ALWAYS STRONGER INTELLECTUALLY THAN WOMEN |
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Tariq Hashmi
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Thursday, July 7, 2005 - 11:32 AM
salams
I thank you all for useful contribution to this beatiful topic. I cannot add to the scholarly comments for i am no expert in this field. However, i would remind you all that we need to follow the code of conduct. Personal attacks have to be avoided. For we are here not to let others down and feel triumphant at any cost. Rather the purpose is to learn and communicate what we already know. This whole process is a noble one you would agree. And we should proceed respecting others the way we would expect them to deal with us. We have to avoid anything that can be taken to stand for personal attack.
We all are aware that we all are able to understand where do we cross the moral bounds and abandon sound academic approach.
I would request you all to go through your responses and clear it of the offensive language. I think it would be very good if we do it ourselves and not wait for the moderators to do that for us.
Regards, |
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Abinzain
SAUDI ARABIA
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Posted - Saturday, July 9, 2005 - 1:00 AM
Salamo alaikom
Any brother and sister, who could not find the journal (already mentioned- see above), let me know about their postal addresses. I shall send them by post.
Regards
Dr. Abinzain
MD, MRCP (Psych)
Saudi Arabia |
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