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saadiamalik
PAKISTAN
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 Topic initiated on Friday, November 26, 2004 - 8:36 AM 
Women travelling Alone to Mecca/Medina
Assalaamu Alaikum.
Does anyone here feel that the Saudi government has wrongly imposed the restriction for foreign women to enter the kingdom without a Mehram?
The Ka'aba is as much my Allah's home as it is a Muslim man's. Why can't I travel to the haram when I feel like getting closer to the Bait'Allah?
Your opinion?
Wasalaam.
Saadia
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ibrahim
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, November 26, 2004 - 11:48 AM 
Wa alaikum us salaam
surely, Saudi government has wrongly imposed the Mehram restriction for foreign women to enter the kingdom as there is NO such restriction can be found in the Quraan & Sunnah. |
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saadiamalik
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, November 26, 2004 - 12:29 PM
quote:
Wa alaikum us salaam
surely, Saudi government has wrongly imposed the Mehram restriction for foreign women to enter the kingdom as there is NO such restriction can be found in the Quraan & Sunnah.
Exactly, that's what I think too. Thanks for your input, brother.
Even if I look at the issue through a case by case analysis, I can't seem to sit down calmly at the thought of a woman not being able to visit the House of Allah on her own, independent freewill.
Also, I feel that non-Muslims should be allowed to visit the sacred cities, enter the haram, and experience the spirit of worship themselves. By limiting their exposure to the Islamic world, we are only limiting the chances of many people accepting Islam.
Wasalaam.
Saadia
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ibrahim
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, November 26, 2004 - 2:44 PM
| sure, nothing stops non-Muslims to visit the sacred cities, enter the haram, and experience the spirit of worship themselves. |
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zest
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, November 26, 2004 - 3:25 PM
Would both the scholars mind to justify their judgmental statements regarding the Saudi's decision? I do not want to contradict you and only want proper education in religious affairs.
jazakAlalh |
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saadiamalik
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, November 26, 2004 - 4:44 PM
quote:
Would both the scholars mind to justify their judgmental statements regarding the Saudi's decision? I do not want to contradict you and only want proper education in religious affairs. jazakAlalh
Assalaamu Alaikum.
First of all, I'm not a scholar; just a very enthusiastic student of Islam, standing on the first stage of discovery perhaps.
Secondly, a comment concerning your question. As brother Ibrahim said, the Qur'an does not anywhere restrict women against travelling without a mahram. If anyone can find me such a restriction, I'd be happy to change my opinion.
Thirdly, as far as ahadith are concerned, yes, they are to some extent, but there again, there's a misunderstanding, I believe. If anyone's interested, I'd be happy to provide you a piece written on the same (which I will, nevertheless) before this discussion comes to an end. But first, let's have arguments from the Qur'an itself. Because I believe that restricting a muslimah from approaching the House of Allah is a grave issue, indeed.
Wasalaam.
Saadia |
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zest
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 5:59 AM
Thanks for clarification.
The ritual of hajj like other worship rituals should be learnt from the Prophet and not the Qur'an. How we do we pray? Surely as the Prophet told us. The same is the hajj. Therefore, we have to consider the teachings of the Prophet hadith in this regard. |
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Nauman
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 6:22 AM
Ussalaam-o-alaikum.
This is very unfortunate.
I think this is because of their own interpretation of religion. We should respect their law like we accept others to respect ours.
It is the intention that counts; not the actual performance of that act. We should not feel dejected on something we have no control of. |
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atifrafi
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 8:25 AM
Assalam o Alaikum,
As it is mentioned earlier that there is no such directive in the Quran. about the Hadith, the directives are of general nature and not particular for going to Hajj or Umra.
Its very simple that at that time travelling was not easy and it took many days to move from one city to other & at that time travelling alone for women was not safe for them.
Even if nothing bad happen, most people specially hypocrites may get a chance to destroy the repute of those noble women. And we all know what happened with Hazrat Ayesha (rt) and if people does not spare her than what would they do with other women.
Now, if we are sure that the journey is safe, then we don't need to force this directive. |
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Rizwan
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, November 27, 2004 - 11:20 AM
I think every government has a right to make a law for an our all control situation. Why don't we state that a red light is un-islamic, everyone has the right to move on the road.
The Saudi government does not find it possible to give proper facilities to individual women so they have imposed a restriction. I have been to Haj, and I feel they have done right, even a single male will have difficulties in performing the rituals. However, I think they allow women without Mehrem if they are in a group.
For non-muslims again, they have the right to make a law; why dont' American allow everyone to enter their country. If Saudis don't allow non-muslims to enter holy city they have right to it.
Unfortunately, we are in a general habit of criticizing governments, be it Pakistani or Saudis. Actually we should be thankful to them for the great effort they put in facilititating millions of people coming from all over the world. |
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masahibzada
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 4:24 AM
As-Salaamu `Alaykum: - Let me first remind my brothers & sisters in Faith that we should resist expressing personal opinions in religious matters unless we have the necessary academic expertise in the disciplines relevant to understanding and interpretation of Akhaam-ul-Islaam (Edicts). This does not mean that we should not try to understand the religious instructions but only to avoid expressing on such matters personal judgments, which are not backed by sound reasoning based on the text of Al-Quraan-ul-Kareem and Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad (sallallaahu `alaihi wa sallam). Both these sources of the Islaamic jurisprudence have to be given equal status. The following Aayaat of Al-Quraan-ul-Kareem, among several others, contain the edicts of Allah (SWT) on the issue of obeying the Prophet (sallallaahu `alaihi wa sallam) along with His (SWT)’s obedience.
3:31-32, 132; 4:13, 59, 69, 80, 64; 5:92; 8:1, 20, 46; 24:52, 33:33; 54, 56; 47:33; 58:13; 64:12
Therefore, we should not relegate position of the authentic Hadith to any lower level than what is its due according to the above edicts. Regarding the science (`Ilm) of determining authenticity of an Hadith, some idea of the care exercised, and the tools employed, by the Muhadditheen (Academic experts in the sciences of Hadith) can be had from the material available on the following web sites:
http://cwis.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/scienceofhadith/atit.html
http://www.sunnahonline.com/ilm/sunnah/0008.htm
http://www.hadithonline.com/
No judicial proceeding even during the present times can meet the standards set by the Muhadditheen for scrutiny of the authenticity and accuracy of Aahaadith. Therefore, we cannot ignore authentic Aahaadith when we are required by Allah (SWT) to obey His Prophet Muhammad (sallallaahu `alaihi wa sallam). We have to remember in this regard that we have received the text of Al-Quraan-ul-Kareem through the same channel as Aahaadith. The only difference between the two is that text of Al-Quraan-ul-Kareem is preserved, and conveyed, in the same words as revealed to the Prophet Muhammad (sallallaahu `alaihi wa sallam) by the angel Jibraeel while in the case of Aahaadith their text (Matan) is composed in the words of the narrators occurring in the chain of the narrators of an Hadith.
Therefore, we, as Muslims, have to conform our life activities according to the requirements of the authentic Aahaadith, and any violation of these will amount to a sin. Necessity, and importance, of presence of a Mahram with the ladies intending to perform Hajj is evident from the directive of the Prophet Muhammad (sallallaahu `alaihi wa sallam) contained in the following Hadith:
Narrated Ibn 'Abbas (Radhiallaho anho):
The Prophet (sallallaahu'alaihi wasallam) said, "A woman
should not travel except with a Dhu-Mahram (her husband or a
man with whom that woman cannot marry at all according to the
Islamic Jurisprudence), and no man may visit her except in the
presence of a Dhu-Mahram." A man got up and said, "O Allah's
Messenger! I intend to go to such and such an army and my wife
wants to perform Hajj." The Prophet said (to him), "Go along
with her (to Hajj)."
Bukhari Vol. 3 : No. 85 [Source: - E-mail from: "AHAD-Listmaster" <listmaster@ahad.org> To: "ahad" <ahad@ahad.org> Sent: Friday, November 26, 2004 1:40 PM]. [Arabic text of this Hadith may be seen in Saheeh Bukhaari, Kitaab-ul-Hajj, Baab Hajj-in-Nisaa’]
Wa-Allahu A`lamu bi-Sawaab, Wa Ma Tawfeeqee Illa bi-Allah, Wa-Alhamdulillah.
TextText |
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saadiamalik
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 6:06 PM
Bros Nauman & Rizwan,
Please don't miscontrue the "intent" of this debate. The idea is not to ridicule a government out of habit, or to not give the Saudis any due credit for their management of the harams; rather, it is to strike a debate. Expression of opinions is the first step to change. All that is being suggested is that perhaps, this particular law needs to be re-considered. What's so negative or wrong with that. You, I or anyone else has a right to demand our rights.
The House of Allah is not exclusive to anyone - it is not more exclusive for a Saudi than it is to a Pakistani, to a male than it is to a female.
Wasalaam.
Saadia |
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saadiamalik
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Sunday, November 28, 2004 - 6:10 PM
Bro masahibzada, please rest assured, neither are we trying to ridicule the Sunnah nor our we trying to unnecessarily reject a hadith. What makes you doubt our intentions and/or our approach. I assure you: I am sincere in my attempts. You will find me refer to the Qur'an and Sunnah for guidance primarily. That is why I keep asking, does the Qur'an disallow women from travelling alone? We'll proceed from then onwards.
Wasalaam.
Saadia |
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masahibzada
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Monday, November 29, 2004 - 7:42 AM
DEAR SISTER Saadia Malik:As-Salaamu `Alaykum.
Thank you for the clarification about sanctity and position of the Sunnah of Prophet Muhammad (sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam) in learning and practicing Teachings of Islaam. Unfortunately I have found, through course of my life, that many Muslims (including myself) exposed only to the secular education system inherited from our colonial rulers of the past, forget that Al-Quraan-ul-Kareem was not revealed as a book alone but was sent along with a Messenger (sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam) who had adapted his life according to its injunctions. Therefore, not only that text of Al-Quraan-ul-Kareem has to be understood as explained by the Prophet Muhammad (sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam) but the supplemental instructions given, or the acts done, by him also have to be given the same sanctity as the text of Al-Quraan-ul-Kareem . Because of our lack of education in the Islaamic Teachings we often forget that the principles and edicts of general applicability interspesred at the various places in Al-Quraan-ul-Kareem are required to be kept in mind for all situations and their meanings, or applicabilty, should not be restricted to the specific situation for which a particular Aayah of Al-Quraan-ul-Kareem was revealed. I may quote the following two examples from Al-Quraan-ul-Kareem as illusratration of my point that is relevant to the subject matter of this discussion:
Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah. [Al-Quraan-ul-Kareem :33:21]
... And whatsoever the messenger giveth you, take it. And whatsoever he forbiddeth, abstain (from it). And keep your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is stern in reprisal. [[Al-Quraan-ul-Kareem : 33:21]]
Therefore, please do not get offended by my remarks as these were mainly caused by my own keenness to share my experience with my younger brothers and sisters in Faith (Al-Islaam) so that they may not commit the same mistake as was done by me through most of my earlier life due, firstly, to lack of formal education in Deen-ul-Islaam and, secondly, but more importantly, due to lack of my keennes to seek guidance from the competent and pious experts in Uloom-ud-Deen-i-Islaam. For this I now feel genuinely sorry and seek forgiveness of Allah (SWT). May Allah (SWT), At-Tawwaab-ur-Raheem, accept my repentance and bless me with His infinite mercies! Aameen
Was-Salaam: Sahibzada Muhammad Ayaz |
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masahibzada
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Monday, November 29, 2004 - 8:04 AM
I am sorry to have typed Aayaat numbers in my last posting wrongly. The correct Aayaat numbers are as under:
Ye have indeed in the Messenger of Allah a beautiful pattern (of conduct) for any one whose hope is in Allah and the Final Day, and who engages much in the Praise of Allah. [Al-Quraan-ul-Kareem :33:21]
... And whatsoever the messenger giveth you, take it. And whatsoever he forbiddeth, abstain (from it). And keep your duty to Allah. Lo! Allah is stern in reprisal. [[Al-Quraan-ul-Kareem : 59:7]]
Sahibzada Muhammad Ayaz |
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saadiamalik
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Monday, November 29, 2004 - 9:03 AM
So, alhamdulillah, we all share common footing, as far as trusting each other is concerned. I would now like to bring to you, the following, as written by Shehzad Saleem sahib:
Most scholars are of the opinion that women cannot travel alone. They must be accompanied by a Mahram (a relative with whom marriage is prohibited). Therefore, in journeys such as Hajj they do not allow women to travel alone. The following Ahadith are the basis of their view:
It is narrated by way of Abu Hurayrah:
لا يحل لامرأة تؤمن بالله واليوم الآخر تسافر مسيرة يوم وليلة إلا مع ذي محرم عليها)مسلم رقم: 1339(
‘It is not permissible for a woman who believes in Allah and the Last Day to travel a distance for one day and one night without a Mahram with her’. (Muslim, No: 1339)
Abu Sa‘id narrates that the Prophet (sws) said:
نهى أن تسافر المرأة مسيرة يومين إلا ومعها زوجها أو ذو محرم )مسلم رقم: 827(
‘A woman is not to travel a distance for two days without her husband or Mahram with her’. (Muslim, No: 827)
It needs to be appreciated that there are a number of Ahadith in which directives have been given by the Prophet (sws) for the well-being of the Muslims. However, if, the circumstances in which such directives have been given change, then as is the case with all conditional directives such directives may no longer apply in the changed circumstances.
The directives given to Muslim women about traveling belong to the above mentioned category. To ensure a safe journey for a woman and to protect her moral character from any scandalous allegation in the strife ridden society of Arabia, the Prophet (sws) bade them travel with a Mahram relation.
Thus, all tours and journeys etc in which the above two bases still exist, the condition of a woman traveling with a Mahram must be followed. However, with the changed circumstances of modern times, travelling has become a lot different from what it used to be in previous days. There are some travels in which safety both physical as well as moral is ensured. So, in such travels the Mahram condition no longer applies. As far as the decision as to which journeys have become so safe is concerned, the traveler must decide for herself.
Please think deeply on this, and let me have your comments. The more, the better. May Allah guide us.
Allah Hafiz.
Saadia |
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