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sahira
UNITED KINGDOM
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 Topic initiated on Friday, December 1, 2006 - 1:51 PM 
Mahram for hajj
salaam all i have a question or two i need you lot to help with.
its know a woman has to travel to hajj accompanied by a Mahram be that her husaband,son,nephew,grandson.what my question is what if a woman has no relative she can have as Mahram? is she still allowed to do hajj with a non Mahram male as in cousin,brother-inlaw ect. you see some take this measure to extreme and say if a woman not accompanied by correct Mahram her hajj is not exceptable. Obviously the Almighty is one to accept or not accept hajj, but wht is the quranic saying on this or any authentic hadiths please give quotes.
my second question is about Jummah prayers, i have heard jumma can only be prayed in mosque as jumma is with jammat and khthba from the mulana, so women who pray at home do they read zohar or can jumma be read at home.
Edited by: ibrahim on Tuesday, December 05, 2006 6:29 AM |
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usmani790
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, December 2, 2006 - 4:41 AM 
Sister what you have heard is correct.So who ever missed the Jummah prayer,he should to pray zohar.
From the article of Mufti Taqi Usmani
It is established by authentic resources that the Khutbah of Friday is a part of the prayer and stands for two Rak'at of prayer. Every day, other than Friday, the prayer of zuhr consist of four Rakats, while on Friday the number of Rakat of the Jumu'ah prayer has been reduced to two, and the other two Rakats have been substituted by the Khutbah. Sayyidna Umar the second caliph of the Holy Prophet says:
The Khutbah has been prescribed in lieu of two Rakats. Who so ever fails to deliver Khutbah must pray four Rakat. |
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hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Saturday, December 2, 2006 - 10:25 AM
the rule re: mahram for hajj is man made- by the saudi govt. it has nothing to do with shariah(laws given by god)however it has to be abided because the state would not let one enter if she did not.
also ps 'can we come to the masjid' in women's forum |
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sahira
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Saturday, December 2, 2006 - 1:27 PM
thanks brother oosmani and henna baji,
oosmani bhai, so if like i pray namaaz at home and its jumma pray does that mean i can only pray zohar not the full rakats of jumma.
henna baji salaam hope your well, so what you are saying is saudi govt made this rule but i thnk they aloow a oman to go with any man providing he acts as her maharam, whereas people here including mulanas say the man has to be a correct maharam ie someone she can not marry. and personally i didnt think this was fair as there are people who dont have anyone so why should thei hajj or umrah be looked upon as worng just coz they dont have the correct maharam. |
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sahira
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Saturday, December 2, 2006 - 1:29 PM
| sorry brother oosamnai you have already answered my question just re-read your post, ignore me. thanks anyway |
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ibrahim
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Tuesday, December 5, 2006 - 6:19 AM
Sister Sahira, Mehram is not an Islamic Condition for women to travell anywhere OR for Hajj. So if Saudi Govt, do NOT allow a Single womn to come for Hajj/Umra, according to their understanding of the Religion, then there will be NO HARM, in my opinion, if she travells w a make-shift mehram.
For our understanding regarding Meram Please refer to
http://www.monthly-renaissance.com/maprq984.html |
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usmani790
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Tuesday, December 5, 2006 - 10:53 AM
Can she travel without a mahram to visit her parents?
Question:
I am in XXX since 3 years and have not been to Pakistan since then.I have two kids and my parents have not met them. They really miss my kids a lot.My husband is a doctor too and he can't get a leaf from his job.I want to know that in this condition can I travel without a mehram? It is just for the sake of making my parents happy.
Answer:
Praise be to Allaah.
It is not permissible for a woman to travel without a mahram, whether she is travelling to do an act of worship such as Hajj or visiting her parents in order to honour them and be kind to them, or travelling for permissible purposes such as going on vacation etc. The evidence for that is as follows:
1 – The general meaning of the words of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “No woman should travel unless she has a mahram with her, and no man should enter upon her unless her mahram is present.” A man stood up and said: “O Messenger of Allaah, my wife has gone out for Hajj, and I want to go out with such and such an army.” He said: “Go and do Hajj with your wife.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 1862.
Muslim (1339) narrated from Abu Hurayrah that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “It is not permissible for a woman who believes in Allaah and the Last Day to travel one day’s distance without a mahram.” There are many ahaadeeth which forbid a woman to travel without a mahram; they are general in meaning and apply to all kinds of travel.
2 – It is well known that travel involves exhaustion and difficulty. Because of her weakness, a woman needs someone to help her and look after her. Things may happen to her that make her panic and act out of character if there is no mahram present. This is well known nowadays when there are so many car accidents and other kinds of transportation accidents. Moreover, travelling alone exposes her to temptation, especially since there is so much corruption. Men who do not fear Allaah may sit neat her, and haraam actions may become attractive to her. Similarly if she is travelling alone in her car, she is exposed to other kinds of danger, if the car breaks down or if evil people conspire against her, and so on. It is perfectly wise that she should be accompanied by a mahram when travelling, because the purpose behind the mahram’s presence is to protect her and look after her, especially if something bad happens. Travel exposes her to such things regardless of how long it takes.
Al-Nawawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: The point is that whatever is known as travelling, women are forbidden to travel without a husband or a mahram.
The Standing Committee was asked whether it is permissible for a woman to travel to Hajj without a mahram. They replied as follows: It is not permissible for a woman to travel for Hajj or for any other purpose without a mahram.
Fataawa al-Lajnah al-Daa’imah, 11/97
Thus it should be clear that Islam is the foremost system when it comes to protecting women and taking care of them, and respecting and honoring them, and regarding them as precious jewels that must be guarded against evil. |
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oosman
USA
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Posted - Tuesday, December 5, 2006 - 8:03 PM
quote:
Thus it should be clear that Islam is the foremost system when it comes to protecting women and taking care of them
It seems the opposite from these fatwas and hadith you have quoted. It seems these people want to lock up women and not allow them to go anywhere without men's permission - keep them backwards and un-educated, use for breeding purposes only. This is the typical Muslim male attitude today and these ignorant mullahs re-enforce such attitude. The worse part is they use the beautiful name of Islam to do this zulm. See Saudi Arabia example. These rules make the women hate Islam. I have seen them take off their abaya the moment the sit in the plane leaving their culture. They hate it because it is forced on them, and they start hating the religion in whose name this is done.
For all the BS you have quoted, please validate this from the holy Quran, otherwise it is all BS. |
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usmani790
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Wednesday, December 6, 2006 - 6:40 AM
Quote:-It seems the opposite from these fatwas and hadith you have quoted. It seems these people want to lock up women and not allow them to go anywhere without men's permission - keep them backwards and un-educated, use for breeding purposes only.
Brother you are assuming these things only (which never said above) for these people who have very good knowledge of deen.This only can be done by the person, who have very little knowledge about deen.
Qoute:-This is the typical Muslim male attitude today and these ignorant mullahs re-enforce such attitude. The worse part is they use the beautiful name of Islam to do this zulm.
Brother again you are wrong, you can see Prophet(pbuh) words are there..But for you if Prophet(pbuh) words does not constitute Islam, so you are representing a very small percentage of Muslims ,Majority believe in Prophet(pbuh) words brother.
Quote:-See Saudi Arabia example. These rules make the women hate Islam. I have seen them take off their abaya the moment the sit in the plane leaving their culture. They hate it because it is forced on them, and they start hating the religion in whose name this is done.
If they are implementing the sharia rules there so how come you blaming them for that,I am surprise.
Quote:-For all the BS you have quoted, please validate this from the holy Quran, otherwise it is all BS.
Have you not seen “obey Prophet” in Quran brother. |
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oosman
USA
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Posted - Wednesday, December 6, 2006 - 3:07 PM
It is really very simple, if you can prove beyond reason of any doubt that what you have quoted are indeed the words of the prophet, and you are willing to go to hell if you are wrong, then let me see this proof that the prophet said this. According to you I am a layman, so why don't you use your superb knowledge to enlighten us. Also if the majority of the people are jumping into the well, then why should I follow them? If majority of muslims belive in nonsense that is contradicting the holy Quran, then why should I believe in something that is inferior and contradictory to something that is superior and more holy?
The truth of the matter is, the holy Qur'an never says that women should stay indoors or they cannot go outside without a mahram. This is all man made stuff, using stories possibly falsely attributed to the prophet. If you are right, then bring the sanad of your hadith. And we can scruitinize the isnad and the characters of those who related these hadith. Otherwise this is all bs. |
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hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
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 Posted - Wednesday, December 6, 2006 - 8:11 PM
henna baji salaam hope your well, so what you are saying is saudi govt made this rule but i thnk they aloow a woman to go with any man providing he acts as her maharam, whereas people here including mulanas say the man has to be a correct maharam ie someone she can not marry.
(ws dear sr. alhamdulillah am well)
to pretend a stranger as a mahram.... hajj with a lie  i wudn't recommend. one may tell a lie on one's own responsibility  |
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usmani790
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Thursday, December 7, 2006 - 5:31 AM
Quote-It is really very simple, if you can prove beyond reason of any doubt that what you have quoted are indeed the words of the prophet, and you are willing to go to hell if you are wrong
Brother there are two Ahadith quoted one from Bukhari and the other one is from Muslim.These both sources are commonly considered the most reliable sources.If you don’t want believe in these reliable sources, there many in this world to whom one even can’t prove that Islam is a true religion and Quran is the Book from Allah.
Brother I never said that you are layman and you don’t have good knowledge .What I mean was if some one don’t posses good knowledge, so he only do that what you have siad for these knowledgeable people.Here what you have said.
Quote:- It seems the opposite from these fatwas and hadith you have quoted. It seems these people want to lock up women and not allow them to go anywhere without men's permission - keep them backwards and un-educated, use for breeding purposes only.
Quote: Also if the majority of the people are jumping into the well, then why should I follow them? If majority of muslims belive in nonsense that is contradicting the holy Quran, then why should I believe in something that is inferior and contradictory to something that is superior and more holy?
Brother its not contradicting the Holy Quran, rather adding some thing to It.When Quran says “obey and follow the prophet”And if Prophet(pbuh) saying we find from reliable source,what is the problem then.
Quote:-The truth of the matter is, the holy Qur'an never says that women should stay indoors or they cannot go outside without a mahram. This is all man made stuff, using stories possibly falsely attributed to the prophet. If you are right, then bring the sanad of your hadith. And we can scruitinize the isnad and the characters of those who related these hadith. Otherwise this is all bs.
We all pray five times a day without any hesitation, while there is no order in Quran to pray five times a day.How many of us have seen the sanad of that hadith which says so.Any way you always can do your research on that.
This my brotherly advised to you don’t talk like that regarding any hadith even after you established from your finding that the hadith is not reliable. |
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oosman
USA
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Posted - Thursday, December 7, 2006 - 9:13 PM
I apologize for being so harsh.
Just because a hadith is in Sahih Bukhari does not mean it is sahih. Blindly obeying hadith is not wise - one must investigate it before accepting it.
As for the 5 daily prayers, I never learnt them from hadith, I started praying when I was 12 or 13 of age approximately, and I did not know what hadith was. From what I understand, prayer is part of sunnah of the prophet and so I follow it like the Muslims follow the sunnah.
And people were doing salat even before sahih bukhari. |
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usmani790
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, December 8, 2006 - 7:00 AM
Quote:-Just because a hadith is in Sahih Bukhari does not mean it is sahih. Blindly obeying hadith is not wise - one must investigate it before accepting it.
Brother one thing we have to accept and fully understand that we don’t have such ability to investigate any hadith on our own.Just like we can not fly a aircraft without fully learning it.Now what we common people do?.To me it better to follow those people who ever we found have study the deen well and saying things with regards to matter of deen with the words of Quran and Sunnah in the support.Rather than people who don’t have enough qualification of deen and saying some thing without any reference of Quran and Sunnah.This ivestigation we can do easily.
Then We placed you on the right road of Our Command so follow it. Do not follow the whims and desires of those who do not know." (45:18)
Quote:-As for the 5 daily prayers, I never learnt them from hadith, I started praying when I was 12 or 13 of age approximately, and I did not know what hadith was. From what I understand, prayer is part of sunnah of the prophet and so I follow it like the Muslims follow the sunnah.
Very true brother,prayer is very important part of our deen.It is as important today as this was in earlier days.For these issues like travelling of woman and Hijab,if you will study it only 50 to 100 years back you will find that our Mothers and grand mothers used do it the way we find in the ahaith.Since the world coming closer very fast and we Muslim are getting very impressed with the western world today, resulting leaving these our customs behind.It mixed with our blood so much that when ever we heart any things against it,we start opposing even the ahadith and the people who says so we start giving them funny names and hate them.
Brother we need to change our attitude towards our deen and try our best to bring it back the way Prophet(pbuh) thought it.May Allah give us such a strength to follow the deen according to His pleasure. |
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oosman
USA
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Posted - Friday, December 8, 2006 - 9:13 PM
dear usmani790,
I agree with you mostly. However I still think it is not wise to blindly trust hadith. You said what is a common man like us supposed to do who has no knowledge of isnads of hadith. The answer is to acquire the knowledge - but to use ignorance as an excuse to blindly follow hadith is not wise in my humble opinion.
If you read Shia sources, they frown upon many of the narrators of hadith in Sunni books - and vice versa. Why should I believe one and not the other? Whom should I believe? I chose not to believe until I have acquired that knowledge. For the common layman, Quran has enough guidance for a successful life and afterlife.
You should read some of the negative things about Abu-Hurrariah, Imam Bukhari, and other 'pious' hadith narrators. Why should one believe only the positive things about these narrators and not the negative things? If a person takes unbiased look at these narrators, then one finds things that show these men were of good character, and one also finds things that show these men were of bad character. In the light of this confusion, don't you think it is best to avoid the confusion? |
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usmani790
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, December 9, 2006 - 11:39 AM
Brother Oosman
Quote:- You said what is a common man like us supposed to do who has no knowledge of isnads of hadith. The answer is to acquire the knowledge - but to use ignorance as an excuse to blindly follow hadith is not wise in my humble opinion.
Brother Allah says in Quran ''So ask the people of remembrance if you do not know(16:43)''.This is not the solution for the common men.This is not that easy that every one can do it.One have to study the deen for years, may be minimum ten years then he might be able to do that.May be you can give up your current job and start studying the deen and one day you may be able to do that.But not every common men can do that neither its required by our deen.Its Allah who select peoples among us to do jobs for the understanding and promoting the correct understanding of deen to the common people.What a common person must do to acquire the knowledge as much which require to know for a commom men without sacrificing the current setup of the life and in the deeper matters of deen one must follow the advise of learned people.This shaitan is very smart brother he keep us confuse in many thing until we die.
And when the shaitan made their works fair seeming to them. Al-Anfal, Chapter #8, Verse #48)
And say: O my Lord! I seek refuge in Thee from the evil suggestions of the shaitans; Al-Mumenoon, Chapter #23, Verse #97)
Quote:-If you read Shia sources, they frown upon many of the narrators of hadith in Sunni books - and vice versa. Why should I believe one and not the other? Whom should I believe? I chose not to believe until I have acquired that knowledge. For the common layman, Quran has enough guidance for a successful life and afterlife.
Brother to me its very simple not to follow the shia for many reasons.My heart says that they are also Muslims but some thing went very very wrong with them.The differences between our and their believes and ibadah suggest me that sunni way of following deen is more appropriate than the shia.I don’t take confusion along with me for so long.Our sincere prayers to Allah is always help us lots in every matter of deen and dunia.The important is we must seek His guidance in every matter weather how small it is or how big it is.
Edited by: usmani790 on Monday, December 11, 2006 10:51 AM |
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