| Author | Topic |
Mikai
UNITED KINGDOM
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 Topic initiated on Sunday, December 30, 2007 - 8:38 PM 
Women deficient in intellect comapared to man?
Differences in intelligence? Possible?
Asa to all
I saw this issue brought up in connection with another topic but made a new thread so that it can be a focal point here.
I think many sisters would automatically become defensive when we learn that Islam teaches that women have less intelligence then men (supported by evidence from the Qur’an and Hadith). Some sisters cannot comprehend how that could be possible and see it as shameful and humiliating, they think it’s just another way of trying to belittle them and keep them below men.
My advice would be, as hard as it may seem to believe, remain open minded as you maybe surprised by what you find.
Some time ago I couldn’t accept there being any differences in intelligence between men and women but recently I did a lot of research and I was surprised by what I found. Inshallah I will post my findings later. In the meantime please tell me what you think and whether you believe there are differences in men and women’s intelligence. |
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oosnam
INDIA
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Posted - Monday, December 31, 2007 - 8:23 AM 
1) MEN ARE SUPERIOR TO WOMEN
Qur'an- 4:34 "Men have authority over women because Allah has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient.
2) MEN ARE COMMANDED TO BEAT THEIR DISOBEDIENT WIVES
Qur'an- 4:34 "As for those from whom you fear disobedience, admonish them and send them to their beds apart (stop having sexual relations with them), and beat them."
The above verse was revealed in connection with a women who complained to Muhammad that her husband slapped her on the face, which was still marked by the slap. At first Muhammad said to her "Get even with him", but then added 'Wait until I think about it". Later on the above verse was revealed, and Muhammad added,
'We (He and the woman) wanted one thing, Allah wanted another. In other words, God blessed a man slapping around his wife. Zamakhshari, Jalalan and Baydawi also support this.
The Arabic is much stronger that the words "beat them". It actually says "scourge (whip) them". Muhammad Pickthall correctly translates it this way in his version of the Qur'an."
Another Muslim scholar (Imam al-Mawawi, in Riyad al-Salihin, ("The Orchards of Righteous Men"), p 107-108) addresses this issue by relating a story from early Islam:
"Umar Khattab came to Muhammad saying, 'Women have dared to disobey husbands.' He (Muhammad) allowed their husbands to scourge them. Many women approached Muhammad complaining against their husbands because Muhammad received a verse for the Qur'an which commands their husbands to scourge them."
In addition to this Zamakhshari writes "Muhammad said 'Hang up your scourge (whip) where your wife or wives can see it'", (BTV, p81). This is meant to remind the wife that disobedience will bring physical punishment.
Asma, Abu Bakr's daughter said, "I was the fourth wife of al-Zabayr Ibn Awwam. Whenever he became angry at any of us he struck us with a hook rod until it was broken". Zabayr was one of Muhammad's special 'companions'.
A MAN INHERITS MORE THAN A FEMALE
A man gets more of an inheritance than his sister gets. Qur'an 4:11, 176- "A man shall inherit twice as much as a female". Following vs. 11, the next verses detail percentages of who receives what. Again, men come out on top.
Some Muslims say that men inherit more than women because the male is the bread winner, and the women is to be supported by her male relatives. But there are circumstances possible where the sister would be in more need of finances than the brother. What if the sister is married to a poor man and has many children, and her brother is wealthy? Why does Islamic law deny women an equal share in the inheritance? Why does the woman have to trust her male relative's discretion? What if he squanders the money? In this case, women are at a disadvantage.
MEN CAN HAVE SEXUAL RELATIONS WITH WIVES AND CONCUBINES
A man can fulfill his sexual desires with a variety of women.
Qur'an- 23:5 "Blessed are the believers...who restrain their carnal desires (except with their wives and slave girls for these are lawful to them)...
In other words, men can have up to 4 wives, and he can also have sexual relations with as many slave girls as he owns. Muhammad had at least one captured female who he had sex with - Rayhana. Muhammad had massacred 800 Jewish male captives. He then sold the women and children as slaves. He kept at least one female for himself - Rayhana. He wanted to marry her, and she refused, so he kept her as a concubine. (Sirat, p466). Mariyam was also his concubine, until she gave birth to a son- Ibrahim. After that, Muhammad married her. (KTK, p151)
It was okay for a man to use his female slaves for his personal sexual pleasure. However he was not allowed to make her a prostitute. Arabs used to wait for one period cycle before having sex with their slaves so as to make sure that they are not pregnant.
DIVORCE
The Qur'an also treats women like a pieces of property for men. The ease of divorce accommodates the man, but not the women (in most cases she needs her husband's permission).
Ref. 4:20 - "If you wish to replace a wife with another, do not take from her dowry... that would be unfair".
If a man has divorced his wife three times she may not remarry him, until she has married another man, and consummated that marriage, then divorced the other man. ref. 2:230. Islamic law calls this other man 'Muhalil'. This is supported by Bukhari 7, p136, and the commentators Jalalan, Baydawi, and Soyuti. (BTV, p102)
Women can be divorced by their husbands with or without cause, but she can only seek divorce from her husband with her husband's consent, (HDI, 'Women')
3) LEGAL TESTIMONY
A woman's legal testimony is worth half of a man's, (only except in the event that she is accused of adultery).
Qur'an- 2:282 "...and call in to witness two witnesses, men; or if the two be not men, then one man and two women, such witness as you approve of, that if one women errs the other will remind her."
4) WOMEN ARE DEFICIENT IN INTELLIGENCE COMPARED TO MEN
In the Hadith Muhammad also said a variety of negative things about women. Here is the Hadith:
"Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: Once Allah's apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) of Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's apostle?" He replied, "You curse frequently are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you". The women asked, "O Allah's apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said, is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in your intelligence. Isn't it true that a women can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said: "This is the deficiency in your religion." Bukhari, volume 1, #301, and vol. 3, #826:
Some Muslims say that there is no comparison with men here. "Deficient in intelligence...? Deficient compared to who or what? What or who is the standard? The context and reference of the quote will give us the answer.
Let's take a look at the sentence in question: "I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you (the women he was talking to)." He's calling them 'deficient in intelligence'. Deficient means "lacking, defective, insufficient, inadequate". Muhammad is saying that women's intelligence is all these things. Are women deficient when compared to children? To dogs? To donkeys? To God? What is Muhammad's standard?
The women question him on this; they are wondering why he said that. They ask, "Muhammad, how are we defective, insufficient, lacking and inadequate in
intelligence?" Muhammad answers with some words similar to those in the Qur'an: "Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" He cements women's deficient intelligence by pointing out to them that their testimony is worth half of a man's. These women, knowing his teaching agree. Muhammad then points out "This is the defectiveness in your intelligence." Muhammad references men when justifying his statement that women are deficient in intelligence when compared to men.
Muhammad uses the testimony of men as the comparison. Women are being compared to men, there is no doubt about it. Muhammad elaborated on his 'inadequate in intelligence' statement by tying their 'deficiency in intelligence' with the Quran's verse of 2:282. In effect, Muhammad says to them, "You women are somewhat stupid, so much so that your testimony is worth only half of a man's.
Here is the pertinent part of 2:282 - "Call in two male witnesses from among you, but if two men cannot be found, then one man, and two women whom you judge fit to act as witnesses, so that if either of them commit an error, the other will remind her."
The Qur'an also implies that women are deficient in intelligence when compared to men. It does not explicitly say "women are deficient in intelligence when compared to men", but when the Qur'an says "men are superior to women" (4:34), "and the testimony of two women equals one man's" (2:282), it implies women are of inferior intelligence (when compared to men).
But why do you need two women's testimonies for one man's? Why couldn't one be good enough? The bottom line is that women don't equal men in this testimony.
Muslims point out that in cases of adultery, a women's testimony is more valid than a man's (refer to Qur'an- 24:6-9). But that is only for the case of adultery. These Qur'anic verses related to this deal explicitly with un-chastity. It is not the other way around. What the verses say are that in the case of a women being accused of sexual sin, her testimony is just as valid as her husband's. Perhaps because Muhammad thought the women should know if she committed sexual sin, so he gave women the benefit of the doubt.
Muslims try to say that the context of 2:228 relates to testimony on financial transactions, which are often complex and loaded with business jargon. What Muhammad meant is that women were deficient in intelligence because at the time they were not familiar with business related issues.
This sounds like an easy out, but it isn't. Muslim's believe that the Qur'an is the literal word of God. What the Qur'an lays down as law, they must follow. Why would the Qur'an lay down a law like 'you must have two women's testimony, to account for one man's testimony'? If it were only a case of local custom or culture, would it have become Qur'anic law? No, Allah is making a point, establishing a precept for future Muslims to follow: "Two women's testimony for one man's."
Further, didn't Khadijah (Muhammad's first wife) own a business? Was she so financially inept that she couldn't deal in business? Were all the women back then so ignorant and backward? I don't think so.
Let's examine some Muslim writings related to this. Here's a contemporary one. Recently, a female Muslim writer commenting on the two for one witness law wrote:
"Women were made to bear and feed children, therefore they are very emotional. And she is forgetful, for if she did not forget how it is to give birth she would not have another child. That is why she will not be as reliable a witness as a man". (Taken from "The Age", Life behind a veil of Islam, 3/3/1992, p11.
A quote from a contemporary Muslim - Dr. Aly Farrukha, Director of Islamic Studies in Chicago says:
"The issue of a woman's testimony in court is a divine order which necessitates that a woman who is a witness should be accompanied by another woman in order to remind her if she forgets and to correct her is she makes an error." (So they are saying that a woman’s memory is also poor)
This Muslim scholar states that woman's testimony is worth half of a man's in all legal issues. I will add except for the charge of un-chastity.
Now, from the Jalalan (p79), a great Muslim Qur'anic commentary: "Men have been given authority over women to discipline and control them by the merits of
KNOWLEDGE, INTELLIGENCE, and custody..."
Finally, let me quote from the Muslim writer Ali Dashti (in "23 Years: A Study of the Prophetic Career of Muhammad", p113, 114)
"According to the Tafsir ol-Jalalayn, the superiority of men lies in intelligence, knowledge and administrative ability. Zamakhshari, Baydawi, and several other commentators go into more detail and construct metaphysical theories; they liken men's authority over women to that of rulers over subjects, and maintain that prophethood, prayer-leadership, and rulership are reserved for men because men are stronger, more intelligent, and more prudent."
Sounds pretty clear to me. Islam teaches that men are superior to women in intelligence. (I should be happy with this as I am a man but what about Equality, women's rights!)
4.1) MEN ARE THE MANAGERS OF WOMEN
Islam, teaches the husband to be responsible for his wife and household as indicated in 4:34. It is his role as 'qawwam' or manager. In the Hans-Wehr Arabic-English Dictionary, p800: 'Qawwam' means: manager, director, superintendent, caretaker, keeper, custodian, guardian". Islamic men do indeed manage their women.
But there is another part of 4:34.... "Men have authority over women because God has made the one superior to the other, and because they spend their wealth to maintain them. Good women are obedient.........Then if they (the women) obey you (the men), take no further action against them." So, Islam also requires women to submit to men.
As a final reference, examine Muhammad's farewell address. I quote from Guillaume's translation, page 651:
"Lay injunctions on women kindly, for they are prisoners with you having no control of their persons".
You can see that men do more than 'maintain' women. They indeed are women's managers.
4.2) Women are deficient with respect to men in piety.
4.3) Women are deficient in gratitude when compared to men. Continuing with Bukhari, vol. 1, #28:
"Women are ungrateful to their husbands and are ungrateful for the favors and the good deeds done to them. If you have always been good to one of them and then she sees something in you (not of her liking), she will say, "I have never received any good from you.""
http://debate.org.uk/topics/coolcalm/women.html |
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hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
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 Posted - Wednesday, April 16, 2008 - 7:59 PM
The following Hadith is generally presented to support the view that women are less sensible than men:
عن أبي سعيد الخدري قال خرج رسول الله في أضحى أو فطر إلى المصلى فمر على النساء فقال …ما رأيت من ناقصات عقل ودين أذهب للب الرجل الحازم من إحداكن قلن وما نقصان ديننا وعقلنا يا رسول الله قال أليس شهادة المرأة مثل نصف شهادة الرجل قلن بلى قال فذلك من نقصان عقلها أليس إذا حاضت لم تصل ولم تصم قلن بلى قال فذلك من نقصان دينها (بخارى رقم: ٢٩٨)
Abu Sa‘id Khudri narrates that the Prophet (sws) while once talking to a group of women on the occasion of Eid ul Fitr or Eid ul Adha said: ‘… and I have seen no one more than you rob even a resolute man of his senses in spite of being Naqisati ‘Aql wa Din’. They said: ‘O Allah’s Messenger, what is this Naqs in religious and worldly affairs?’ He said: ‘Is not the evidence of a woman equal to half of a man’s’. They said: ‘Yes’. He said: ‘This is their Naqs in worldly affairs’. He said: ‘Is it not a fact that when they enter the period of menses they neither pray nor fast’. They said: ‘Yes’. Whereupon he said: ‘This is the Naqs in religious affairs’. (Bukhari, No: 298)
This misconception has arisen because of a wrong translation of the Arabic phrase Naqisati ‘Aql wa Din. The word ‘Naqs’ has generally been translated as ‘defective’ keeping in view the Urdu meaning of the word. However, in Arabic, the verb ‘نَقَصَ’ (Naqasa) means ‘to reduce’ and the word ‘عقل’ (‘Aql) here means ‘worldly affairs’ since it is used in conjugation with the word ‘دين’ (religion). Keeping in view, both these aspects, the correct translation of the above phrase, if the context is also taken into consideration, is that women have been given a relief and reduction in their worldly and religious affairs.
The relief in worldly responsibilities, as is mentioned in this Hadith, is that women have not been dragged in certain activities and spheres. For example, the Qur’an urges men to testify on legal documents so that women are relieved of appearing in courts and wasting their precious time on affairs which others can handle. Only if men are not available should a society involve women in such affairs.
The relief women have been given in religious affairs is that they are not required to pray or fast during their monthly periods as is mentioned in this Hadith.
So what must be kept in mind is the fact that the meaning of a word does not always remain the same in two different languages. For example, the word ‘غَلِيْظ’ in Arabic means ‘firm’ while in Urdu it means ‘dirty’. Thus the Qur’an (4:21) has referred to marriage as ‘مِيثَاقاً غَلِيْظَا’ (a firm agreement).
Moreover, people who think that women are less sensible than men on the basis of this Hadith do not realize that the Hadith is not merely saying that women are Naqisati ‘Aql, it is also saying they are Naqisati Din. If Naqisati ‘Aql means that there is some defect in their ‘Aql (intellect), then by the same token, Naqisati Din should mean that there is also some shortcoming in the religion they follow! This of course is absurd and as referred to above is the result of keeping the Urdu meaning of the word in consideration. |
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oosnam
INDIA
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Posted - Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 12:34 PM
quote:
The following Hadith is generally presented to support the view that women are less sensible than men:
عن أبي سعيد الخدري قال خرج رسول الله في أضحى أو فطر إلى المصلى فمر على النساء فقال …ما رأيت من ناقصات عقل ودين أذهب للب الرجل الحازم من إحداكن قلن وما نقصان ديننا وعقلنا يا رسول الله قال أليس شهادة المرأة مثل نصف شهادة الرجل قلن بلى قال فذلك من نقصان عقلها أليس إذا حاضت لم تصل ولم تصم قلن بلى قال فذلك من نقصان دينها (بخارى رقم: ٢٩٨)
Abu Sa‘id Khudri narrates that the Prophet (sws) while once talking to a group of women on the occasion of Eid ul Fitr or Eid ul Adha said: ‘… and I have seen no one more than you rob even a resolute man of his senses in spite of being Naqisati ‘Aql wa Din’. They said: ‘O Allah’s Messenger, what is this Naqs in religious and worldly affairs?’ He said: ‘Is not the evidence of a woman equal to half of a man’s’. They said: ‘Yes’. He said: ‘This is their Naqs in worldly affairs’. He said: ‘Is it not a fact that when they enter the period of menses they neither pray nor fast’. They said: ‘Yes’. Whereupon he said: ‘This is the Naqs in religious affairs’. (Bukhari, No: 298)
This misconception has arisen because of a wrong translation of the Arabic phrase Naqisati ‘Aql wa Din. The word ‘Naqs’ has generally been translated as ‘defective’ keeping in view the Urdu meaning of the word. However, in Arabic, the verb ‘نَقَصَ’ (Naqasa) means ‘to reduce’ and the word ‘عقل’ (‘Aql) here means ‘worldly affairs’ since it is used in conjugation with the word ‘دين’ (religion). Keeping in view, both these aspects, the correct translation of the above phrase, if the context is also taken into consideration, is that women have been given a relief and reduction in their worldly and religious affairs.
The relief in worldly responsibilities, as is mentioned in this Hadith, is that women have not been dragged in certain activities and spheres. For example, the Qur’an urges men to testify on legal documents so that women are relieved of appearing in courts and wasting their precious time on affairs which others can handle. Only if men are not available should a society involve women in such affairs.
The relief women have been given in religious affairs is that they are not required to pray or fast during their monthly periods as is mentioned in this Hadith.
So what must be kept in mind is the fact that the meaning of a word does not always remain the same in two different languages. For example, the word ‘غَلِيْظ’ in Arabic means ‘firm’ while in Urdu it means ‘dirty’. Thus the Qur’an (4:21) has referred to marriage as ‘مِيثَاقاً غَلِيْظَا’ (a firm agreement).
Moreover, people who think that women are less sensible than men on the basis of this Hadith do not realize that the Hadith is not merely saying that women are Naqisati ‘Aql, it is also saying they are Naqisati Din. If Naqisati ‘Aql means that there is some defect in their ‘Aql (intellect), then by the same token, Naqisati Din should mean that there is also some shortcoming in the religion they follow! This of course is absurd and as referred to above is the result of keeping the Urdu meaning of the word in consideration.
Your own thinking and the forgery has no admittance at all but only which God and his prophet (pbuh) said. |
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Mikai
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 7:58 PM
Asa wb Oosman
quote:
In effect, Muhammad says to them, "You women are somewhat stupid, so much so that your testimony is worth only half of a man's.
[End quote]
My intention for this thread is to come to an understanding of possible differences between the male and females’ intellect and delving deeper in what areas of intelligence that involves and why. This is meant to be done in a sensitive manner which shows respect for both genders which is part of being a caring Muslim that Allah Swt loves.
Moving on, if women are best described as stupid compared to men we would have clearly seen evidence of that in the real world. Yet exactly where are these stupid women? In the hospitals working as qualified doctors? In the school, working as teachers? In the law firm, working as solicitors? In the court, working as barristers? I could go on.
It’s like you blindly believe in whatever interpretation best suits you without backing your belief up with the reality of the world today. Allah Swt does not want us to follow Islam blindly, He blessed us with reasoning and logic and has given us eyes to see the life of the world.
Women are blessed with incredible intelligence which they can be proud of Allumdulillah and their level of intelligence is far from stupidity.
It's ashame you so readily prefer the negative interpretations of women, including your mother, sisters, aunties etc which indicate a deeper issue here that i think you need to address.
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Mikai
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 8:01 PM
Asa everyone
HKhan, jazakallah for the info, the interpretation of the hadith you displayed has more sense to it then other interpretaions i have seen.
In link with my last post above, being a female myself, I have grown to be more accepting to the possibility that a male maybe blessed by Allah Swt to have a certain degree of advantage in intelligence but only in specific areas where a man needs such higher intellectual capabilities for.
Allah Swt has given males an important role and that role is to provide for, protect and improve the life of their family but also the community within which they live in. This of course is very challenging for men and possibly supports why they would need a higher intellectual capability compared to females. Their higher level of intelligence allows them to focus on specific things and therefore they can progress efficiently in the area of work.
As intelligent as women are I don't believe they would have been able to progress or even develop their ideas as well as men in certain areas. But having said that women are still perfectly capable of learning and understanding what men have discovered and possibly developing their own ideas from that point. But I think men are more the backbone of it all and I see it to be a blessing as men and women compliment each other, one is not better than the other.
I will continue with this later and post some scientific studies I found that explain my beliefs in why I’m more accepting to the possibility that men have higher intellectual capabilities in certain fields. It especially regards the differences in the male and female brain which I guess some of you already have come across.
Jazakallah for the posts! |
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shahidas
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Saturday, April 19, 2008 - 11:26 PM
AOA
We all know its through our mother Bibi Ayesha ahmatullah, that we have learnt the most Ahadith after Prophet Mohammed ( pbuh ) death by God's planning. This should make some sense to those who regard women as being less capable, in a manner to belittle them or make them feel less intelligent. |
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oosnam
INDIA
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Posted - Sunday, April 20, 2008 - 7:02 AM
Warning
Illecit posts have been deleted.Foul language and repeated posts are breach of 'code of conduct' of SI forums. Members breaching 'code of conduct' will be suspended from the forums for 3 weeks in the first instance. Further breach will result in permanant cancellation of registration with SI.
Participants are advised that instead of using unacceptable language they must try to present evidence in favour of their stance in order to continue the discussion.
Student Affairs
Studying Islam
Edited by: hkhan on Monday, April 21, 2008 12:01 AM |
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oosnam
INDIA
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Posted - Sunday, April 20, 2008 - 8:31 AM
To every one,
Al- Quran Sura, No. 2 (Al-Baqra) Verse, No 282
O you who believe! when you deal with each other in contracting a debt for a fixed time, then write it down; and let a scribe write it down between you with fairness; and the scribe should not refuse to write as Allah has taught him, so he should write; and let him who owes the debt dictate, and he should be careful of (his duty to) Allah, his Lord, and not diminish anything from it; but if he who owes the debt is unsound in understanding, or weak, or (if) he is not able to dictate himself, let his guardian dictate with fairness; and call in to witness from among your men two witnesses; but if there are not two men, then one man and two women from among those whom you choose to be witnesses, so that if one of the two errs, the second of the two may remind her; and the witnesses should not refuse when they are summoned; and be not averse to writing it (whether it is) small or large, with the time of its falling due; this is more equitable in the sight of Allah and assures greater accuracy in testimony, and the nearest (way) that you may not entertain doubts (afterwards), except when it is ready merchandise which you give and take among yourselves from hand to hand, then there is no blame on you in not writing it down; and have witnesses when you barter with one another, and let no harm be done to the scribe or to the witness; and if you do (it) then surely it will be a transgression in you, and be careful of (your duty) to Allah, Allah teaches you, and Allah knows all things.
Sahih Bukhari: Volume 001, Book 006, Hadith Number 301.
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Narated By Abu Said Al-Khudri : Once Allah's Apostle went out to the Musalla (to offer the prayer) o 'Id-al-Adha or Al-Fitr prayer. Then he passed by the women and said, "O women! Give alms, as I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-fire were you (women)." They asked, "Why is it so, O Allah's Apostle?" He replied, "You curse frequently and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. A cautious sensible man could be led astray by some of you." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is deficient in our intelligence and religion?" He said,"Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?" They replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her intelligence. Isn't it true that a woman can neither pray nor fast during her menses?" The women replied in the affirmative. He said, "This is the deficiency in her religion."
Sahih Bukhari: Volume 002, Book 024, Hadith Number 541
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Narated By Abu Said Al-Khudri : On 'Id-ul-Fitr or 'Id ul Adha Allah's Apostle (p.b.u.h) went out to the Musalla. After finishing the prayer, he delivered the sermon and ordered the people to give alms. He said, "O people! Give alms." Then he went towards the women and said. "O women! Give alms, for I have seen that the majority of the dwellers of Hell-Fire were you (women)." The women asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What is the reason for it?" He replied, "O women! You curse frequently, and are ungrateful to your husbands. I have not seen anyone more deficient in intelligence and religion than you. O women, some of you can lead a cautious wise man astray." Then he left. And when he reached his house, Zainab, the wife of Ibn Masud, came and asked permission to enter It was said, "O Allah's Apostle! It is Zainab." He asked, 'Which Zainab?" The reply was that she was the wife of Ibn Mas'ub. He said, "Yes, allow her to enter." And she was admitted. Then she said, "O Prophet of Allah! Today you ordered people to give alms and I had an ornament and intended to give it as alms, but Ibn Masud said that he and his children deserved it more than anybody else." The Prophet replied, "Ibn Masud had spoken the truth. Your husband and your children had more right to it than anybody else."
Shahi Muslim: Book 030, Chapter, 19 Hadith Number 5751.
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Anas reported that a woman had a partial derangement in her mind,…….. |
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sibtil
INDIA
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Posted - Sunday, April 20, 2008 - 2:57 PM
Warning
Illecit posts have been deleted.Foul language and repeated posts are breach of 'code of conduct' of SI forums. Members breaching 'code of conduct' will be suspended from the forums for 3 weeks in the first instance. Further breach will result in permanant cancellation of registration with SI.
Participants are advised that instead of using unacceptable language they must try to present evidence in favour of their stance in order to continue the discussion.
Student Affairs
Studying Islam
Edited by: hkhan on Monday, April 21, 2008 12:03 AM |
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hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Sunday, April 20, 2008 - 11:54 PM
Quote: "MEN CAN HAVE SEXUAL RELATIONS WITH WIVES AND CONCUBINES"
The above conclusion is made because of the misunderstanding of certain facts as explained below:
10. Sex with Female War Captives
Among many other misconceptions about Islam is the notion that it gives sanction to slavery and permits its followers to enslave prisoners of war, particularly women and establish extra-marital relations with them. The fact is that Islam has not the slightest link with slavery and concubinage. On the contrary, it completely forbids these practices. It is quite outrageous to associate such barbarities with a religion revealed to upgrade humanity.
The point which needs to be appreciated and which, perhaps, is the real cause of the misconception is that Islam had adopted a gradual process to abolish the institution of slavery because of the social conditions prevalent in Arabia at that time. It must be kept in mind that slavery was an integral part of the pre-Islamic Arab society. There were scores of slave men and women in almost every house. This was largely due to two reasons: First, during those times, the standard practice of dispensing with prisoners of war was to distribute them among the army which captured them. Second, there were extensive slave markets in Arabia in that period where free as well as men and women of all ages were sold like commodities.
In these circumstances, in which slavery had become an essential constituent of the Arab society, Islam adopted a gradual way to eliminate it. An immediate order of prohibition would have created immense social and economic problems. It would have become impossible for the society to cater for the needs of a large army of slaves, who were, otherwise, dependent on various families. Also, the national treasury was in no position to provide them all on a permanent basis. A large number among them were old and incapable of supporting themselves. The only alternative left for them, if they were instantly freed, would have been to turn to beggary and become an economic burden on the society. The question of slave girls and women was even more critical, keeping in view their own low moral standards. Freeing them, all of a sudden, would have only resulted in a tremendous increase in brothels.
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hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Sunday, April 20, 2008 - 11:55 PM
contd:
Perhaps, the reason behind this gradual eradication can be understood better if one considers the position which interest occupies in the economy of Pakistan today. No one can refute Pakistan’s national economic structure is interest oriented. How the parasite of interest has crippled the national economy is apparent to every keen eye. However, there is no denying the fact that without it our present economic system cannot sustain itself. Every reasonable person will acknowledge that today if a government wishes to rid the economy of this menace then, in spite of its utter prohibition in Islam, it will have to adopt a gradual methodology. During this interim period interest-based deals will have to be tolerated and temporary laws will have to be enacted to handle them, just as the Qur’an had given certain provisional directives about slaves during the interim period of their gradual eradication. An alternative economic framework will have to be steadily incorporated in place of the existing one. A sudden abolition, without another parallel base, will only hasten the total collapse of the economic system, which, of course, will be disastrous for the country.
To avert a similar disaster and to ward off a similar catastrophe, Islam had adopted a progressive and a gradual scheme, fourteen hundred years ago, to do away with the inhuman institution of slavery.
Various directives were given at various stages because of which it gradually became possible for this evil to be eradicated from the society. These are summarized below:8
1. In the very beginning of its revelation, the Qur’an regarded emancipation of slaves as a great virtue, and urged people in a very effective way to do so. The tremendous appeal found in the words it adopted ‘فَكُّ رَقَبَة’ (release the necks) can be well imagined by a person who has flare for the language. It is evident from the context of such expressions – wherever they are found in the Qur’an – that it has regarded this virtue to be the first as well as the greatest step in pleasing God.9
In a similar manner, the Prophet (sws) also urged Muslims to liberate humanity from the yoke of slavery in the following words: ‘Whoever liberated a Muslim slave, the Almighty in return for every limb of that slave would shield every limb of that person from Hell’10.
2. People were urged that until they free their slaves they should treat them with kindness. The way their masters had total and unchecked control on them in the age of ignorance was put to end. They were told that slaves are human beings too, and no one should in any way violate the rights they possess as human beings.
Abu Hurayrah (rta) narrated from the Prophet (sws): ‘Slaves have a right to food and clothing and he shall not be asked to carry out an errand that is beyond him’11.
Abu Dharr Ghaffari (rta) narrates from the Prophet (sws): ‘They are your brothers. The Almighty has made them subservient to you. So whatever you eat, feed them with it, whatever you wear, clothe them with it and never ask them to do something which is beyond them and if there is such a task then help them out with it’12.
Ibn ‘Umar (rta) narrates from the Prophet (sws): ‘Whoever slapped a slave or beat him up should atone this sin by liberating him’13.
Abu Mas‘ud (rta) says: ‘Once when I was beating my slave I heard a voice from behind me: “O Abu Mas‘ud you should know that the Almighty has more power over you”. When I turned back, I found that it was the Prophet. I immediately remarked: “O Messenger of God, I release him for the sake of God”. The Prophet said: “Had you not done this you would have been given the punishment of the Fire”.’14
Ibn ‘Umar (rta) narrates that once a person came to the Prophet (sws) and asked: ‘How many times should we forgive our servant’. [At this], the Prophet kept quiet. He asked again and the Prophet again kept quiet. Upon being asked the third time, he answered: ‘Seventy times in a day’.15
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hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Sunday, April 20, 2008 - 11:56 PM
contd:
3. In cases of un-intentional murder, Zihar, and other similar offences, liberating a slave was regarded as their atonement and sadqah16.
4. It was directed to marry off slave-men and slave-women who were capable of marriage so that they could become equivalent in status – both morally and socially – to other members of the society.17
5. If a person were to marry a slave-woman of someone, great care was exercised since this could result in a clash between ownership and conjugal rights. However, such people were told that if they did not have the means to marry free-women, they could marry, with the permission of their masters, slave-women who were Muslims and were also kept chaste. In such marriages, they must pay their dowers so that this could bring them gradually equal in status to free-women. The Qur’an says:
وَمَنْ لَمْ يَسْتَطِعْ مِنْكُمْ طَوْلًا أَنْ يَنكِحَ الْمُحْصَنَاتِ الْمُؤْمِنَاتِ فَمِنْ مَا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ مِنْ فَتَيَاتِكُمْ الْمُؤْمِنَاتِ وَاللَّهُ أَعْلَمُ بِإِيمَانِكُمْ بَعْضُكُمْ مِنْ بَعْضٍ فَانكِحُوهُنَّ بِإِذْنِ أهْلِهِنَّ وَآتُوهُنَّ أُجُورَهُنَّ بِالْمَعْرُوفِ مُحْصَنَاتٍ غَيْرَ مُسَافِحَاتٍ وَلَا مُتَّخِذَاتِ أَخْدَانٍ …ذَلِكَ لِمَنْ خَشِيَ الْعَنَتَ مِنْكُمْ وَأَنْ تَصْبِرُوا خَيْرٌ لَكُمْ وَاللَّهُ غَفُورٌ رَحِيمٌ (٢٥:٤)
If any of you have not the means wherewith to wed free believing women, he may wed believing girls from among those whom you own: and Allah has full knowledge about your Faith. You are one from another: wed them with the permission of their owners, and give them their dowers, according to the norms; [the only condition is that] they should be kept chaste, neither being lustful, nor taking paramours … This permission is for those among you who fear sin; but it is better for you that you practice self-restraint. And Allah is Ever-Forgiving, Most Merciful. (4:25)
6. In the heads of Zakah, a specific head ‘الرِّقَاب فِى’ (for [freeing] necks) was instituted so that the campaign of slave emancipation could receive impetus from the public treasury.18
7. Fornication was regarded as an offence as a result of which prostitution centers that were operated by people on the basis of their slave-women were shut down automatically, and if someone tried to go on secretly running this business, he was given exemplary punishment.19
8. People were told that they were all slaves of Allah and so instead of using the words ‘عَبْد’ (slave-man) and ‘اَمَة’ (slave-woman), the words used should be ‘فَتَى’ (boy/man) and ‘فَتَاة’ (girl/woman) so that the psyche about them should change and a change is brought about in age old concepts.20
9. A big source of the institution of slavery at the advent of the last Prophet (sws) was the prisoners of war. The Qur’an rooted this out by legislating that prisoners of war should be freed at all costs – either by accepting ransom or as a favour by not taking any ransom money. No other option was available to the Muslims.21
10. Finally the following directive was given:
وَالَّذِينَ يَبْتَغُونَ الْكِتَابَ مِمَّا مَلَكَتْ أَيْمَانُكُمْ فَكَاتِبُوهُمْ إِنْ عَلِمْتُمْ فِيهِمْ خَيْرًا وَآتُوهُمْ مِنْ مَالِ اللَّهِ الَّذِي آتَاكُمْ (٢٤ :٣٣)
And if any of your slaves ask for Mukatabat, give it to them if you know any good in them and [for this] give them out of the wealth which Allah has given to you. (24:33)
The above quoted verse of Surah Nur mentions the directive of ‘Mukatabat’. It is a term which means that a slave make a contract with his master according to which he would be required to pay a certain sum of money in a specific time period or would carry out a specific service for his master; once he successfully fulfills either of these two options, he would stand liberated. In the above quoted verse, the Almighty has directed the Muslims to necessarily accept this contract made by a slave if he wants to make it and has the required ability to become financially independent. It is further stated that a Muslim government should spend money from the public treasury, which here is called the treasury of God, in helping such slaves. It is evident from the words of the verse that just as this right of ‘Mukatabat’ was granted to slave-men, it was also granted to slave-women. This, in other words, was in fact a declaration that slaves could now be masters of their destiny and could obtain liberation whenever they wanted. |
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Abinzain
SAUDI ARABIA
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Posted - Tuesday, April 22, 2008 - 2:43 PM
The meaning of these ahadith is very clear. Muhammad "blanketed" a statement over every single woman who has ever and will ever live. Despite many creative ways to explain away the meaning and implications of these ahadith, the actual evidence cannot be denied. Muhammad clearly said that women are deficient in Intelligence because, in Islam, the value of their testimony is equal to that of half a man. If the Quran is a book for all people for all time, then that mandate stands; thus Muhammad was referring to all women in general; and not just a specific group of women.
http://www.wikiislam.com/wiki/Women_are_Deficient_in_Intelligence |
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hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 1:40 AM
Thnx everyone for your valuable posts.
M; there is absolutely no evidence or need to feel that way that men are more clever/intelligent etc. Gender does not effect one's intelligence or character a least. Allah says in the Qur'an clearly that all humans, men and women are children of Adam and the best amongst you is the one who is the best in taqwa(piety/God conciousness)
A, your interpretation is also based on split & random portions of knowledge collected form here and there. there is no such evidence that woman's shahada/testimony is half etc. this opinion is based on lack of understanding of the relevant verses of Qr'an in clear context and background and because of the deficiency in our general understanding of the language of Qur'an
1. The Testimony of Women1
Since the Qur’an has in no way bound the Muslims to adopt a particular method in proving a crime, it is absolutely certain that a crime stands proven in Islamic law just as it is in accordance with the universally acceptable methods of legal ethics endorsed by sense and reason. Consequently, if circumstantial evidence, medical check-ups, post mortem reports, finger prints, testimony of witnesses, confession of criminals, oaths and various other methods are employed to ascertain a crime, then this would be perfectly acceptable by Islamic law.
It is to this fact that the following words of the Prophet (sws) allude to:
الْبَيِّنَةُ عَلَى الْمُدَّعِي وَالْيَمِينُ عَلَى الْمُدَّعَى عَلَيْهِ (ترمذى: رقم ١٢٦١)
To substantiate a crime is the claimant’s responsibility, and the person who refutes it will have to swear an oath. (Tirmadhi: No. 1261)
In the words of Ibn Qayyim:2
البينة في كلام الله و رسوله و كلام الصحابة اسم لكل ما يبين الحق فهي اعم من البينة في اصطلاح الفقهاء حيث خصوها بالشاهدين أو الشاهد واليمين
The word ‘Bayyinah’ in the language of the Qur’an, of the Prophet (sws) and of his Companions (rta) is the name of everything by which the truth becomes evident. Hence contrary to its connotations in the terminology of the jurists, it has a wider meaning because they only use it for two witnesses or an oath and a witness.
However, there are two exceptions to this:
Firstly, if a person accuses a chaste and righteous man or woman having a sound reputation of fornication. In this case, the Qur’an stresses that the accuser shall have to produce four eye-witnesses. Anything less than this will not prove his accusation. Circumstantial evidence or medical examination in this case are absolutely of no importance. If a person is of lewd character, such things have a very important role, but if he has a morally sound reputation, Islam wants that even if he has faltered, his crime should be concealed and he should not be disgraced in the society. Consequently, in this case, it wants four eye-witnesses to testify and if the accuser fails to produce them, it regards him as guilty of Qadhf. The Qur’an says:
وَالَّذِينَ يَرْمُونَ الْمُحْصَنَاتِ ثُمَّ لَمْ يَأْتُوا بِأَرْبَعَةِ شُهَدَاءَ فَاجْلِدُوهُمْ ثَمَانِينَ جَلْدَةً وَلَا تَقْبَلُوا لَهُمْ شَهَادَةً أَبَدًا وَأُوْلَئِكَ هُمْ الْفَاسِقُونَ إِلَّا الَّذِينَ تَابُوا مِنْ بَعْدِ ذَلِكَ وَأَصْلَحُوا فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ غَفُورٌ رَحِيمٌ (٢٤ :٤-٥)
And upon those who accuse honourable women [of fornication] and bring not four witnesses as evidence [for their accusation], inflict eighty stripes, and never accept their testimony in future. They indeed are transgressors. But those who repent and mend their ways, Allah is Most-Forgiving and Ever-Merciful. (24:4-5)
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hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 1:46 AM
contd:
Secondly, to purge an Islamic state from prostitutes who, in spite of being Muslims, do not give up their life of sin, the only thing required, according to the Qur’an, is that four witnesses should be called forth who are in a position to testify that a particular woman is a prostitute. In this case, it is not necessary at all that they be eye-witnesses. If they testify with full responsibility that she is known as a prostitute in the society and the court is satisfied with their testimony, then they can be given any of the punishments fixed by the Qur’an for habitual criminals. The Qur’an says:
وَاللَّاتِي يَأْتِينَ الْفَاحِشَةَ مِنْ نِسَائِكُمْ فَاسْتَشْهِدُوا عَلَيْهِنَّ أَرْبَعَةً مِنْكُمْ فَإِنْ شَهِدُوا فَأَمْسِكُوهُنَّ فِي الْبُيُوتِ حَتَّى يَتَوَفَّاهُنَّ الْمَوْتُ أَوْ يَجْعَلَ اللَّهُ لَهُنَّ سَبِيلًا (١٥:٤)
And upon those of your women who commit fornication, call in four people from among yourselves to testify over them; if they testify [to their ill-ways], confine them to their homes till death overtakes them or God formulates another way for them. (4:15)
Barring these two exceptions, the Shari‘ah does not in any way bind the court to follow any prescribed procedure to ascertain a crime. Consequently, in cases of Hudud punishments or in those of evidence in any other crime, in the view of this writer, it has been left to the discretion of the judge whether he accepts someone as witness or not. In this regard, there is to be no discrimination between men and women. If a woman testifies in a clear and definite manner, her testimony cannot be turned down simply on the basis that there is not another woman and a man to testify alongside her. Likewise, if a man records an ambiguous and vague statement, it cannot be accepted merely on the grounds that he is a man. If a court is satisfied by the statements of witnesses and by any circumstantial evidence, it has all the authority to pronounce a case as proven and if it is not satisfied, it has all the authority to reject it even if ten men have testified.
Except in cases where the Qur’an has used the words ‘منكم’ (minkum: from among you) as in 4:15 above, similar is the case with the testimony of non-Muslims: It is left to the discretion of a judge.
Here it should remain clear that our jurists hold a different view in this matter. Ibn Rushd has summed up the opinions of the jurists on this issue in his celebrated treatise Bidayatu’l-Mujtahid in the following words:
واتفقوا على انه تثبت الأموال بشاهد عدل ذكر و امرأتين لقوله تعالى : فرجل وامرأتان ممن ترضون من الشهداء واختلفوا في قبولهما في الحدود فالذي عليه الجمهور انه لاتقبل شهادة النساء في الحدود لامع رجل ولا مفردات وقال أهل الظاهر : تقبل إذا كان معهن رجل وكان النساء اكثر من واحدة في كل شىء على ظاهر الآية وقال ابوحنيفه : تقبل في الأموال وفيما عدا الحدود من أحكام الأبدان مثل الطلاق والرجعة والنكاح والعتق ولا تقبل عند مالك في حكم من أحكام البدن واختلف أصحاب مالك في قبولهن في حقوق الأبدان المتعلقة بالمال مثل الوكالات والوصية التي لا تتعلق الا بالمال فقط فقال مالك وابن القاسم وابن وهب : يقبل فيه شاهد وامرأتان وقال أشهب وابن الماجشون : لا يقبل فيه الا رجلان واما شهادة النساء مفردات اعنى النساء دون الرجال فهي مقبولة عند الجمهور في حقوق الأبدان التي لا يطلع عليها الرجال غالبًا مثل الولادة والاستهلال وعيوب النساء
There is a general consensus among the jurists that in financial transactions a case stands proven by the testimony of a just man and two women on the basis of the verse: ‘If two men cannot be found then one man and two women from among those whom you deem appropriate as witnesses’. However; in cases of Hudud, there is a difference of opinion among our jurists. The majority say that in these affairs the testimony of women is in no way acceptable whether they testify alongside a male witness or do so alone. The Zahiris on the contrary maintain that if they are more than one and are accompanied by a male witness, then owing to the apparent meaning of the verse their testimony will be acceptable in all affairs. Imam Abu Hanifah is of the opinion that except in cases of Hudud and in financial transactions their testimony is acceptable in bodily affairs like divorce, marriage, slave-emancipation and raju‘ [restitution of marriage]. Imam Malik is of the view that their testimony is not acceptable in bodily affairs. There is however a difference of opinion among the companions of Imam Malik regarding bodily affairs which relate to wealth like advocacy and will-testaments which do not specifically relate to wealth. Consequently, Ash-hab and Ibn Majishun accept two male witnesses only in these affairs, while to Malik Ibn Qasim and Ibn Wahab two female and a male witness are acceptable. As far as the matter of women as sole witnesses is concerned, the majority accept it only in bodily affairs, about which men can have no information in ordinary circumstances like the physical handicaps of women and the crying of a baby at birth.
contd:
Edited by: hkhan on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 10:10 AM |
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