| Author | Topic |
safimera
CANADA
|
 Topic initiated on Tuesday, March 2, 2010 - 2:38 PM 
old topic but with new intention.
I read a big discussion about head covering in this forum .
I want to post a new topic with same root and this is about HOW to guide your daughter about this issue.
So I am posting here my understanding and needs further guidelines.
.I read all discussionS FROM all participants and can conclude for myself that:
Head covering is not must but it is better option religiously .
It has been mentioned in Quran (even if u say it is for only wives of Prophet Muhammed (pbum))and then in the history of muslims almost all muslims followed it as to get more and more rewards and to please GOD. Then it becomes a part of culture so much so that if a woman tried not to cover head , she had been considered bad muslim woman.
Then culture took a new turn in last century and woman started to go out without head covering. So now there is conflict that it is faraz or simple a islamic culture??
After big research from some modern era scholars it has been found that
1) According to Quran and sunnah it is not must but, only modest dressing and covering the chest area are two main things which are faraz.
2) If some women are covering to please Allah (and only Allah , not husband or their surrounding islamic culture), she will definitely get more reward.
3) When a woman wear head cover , she definitely looks more modest than a woman without it (provided both are wearing same modest dress)and moreover if woman wear abaya she definitley looks more modest than head scarf alone.
This is true but interstingly same rule applied to MAN as well. A man looks more modest in dressing when he is covering himself with hat(or topi whatever)and wearing full sleeves shirt and so on as compared to a man who is wearing simple T-shirt and jeans. (sorry !here I went away from the topic)
4) So if woman want to become more modest looking, when going out to avoid mischievious staring OR to Please Allah, she can do anything from wearing head cover to full abaya with even face covering..But it should be choice of woman herself not outside pressure.....
otherwise MODEST DRESS IS MUST FOR ALL MAN AND WOMAN BUT WOMAN HAS SOME ADDITIONAL OBLIGATIONS FROM QURAN AND THOSE ARE: WHEN GOING OUT 1) NOT TO SHOW THEIR MAKE UP OR JEWELLARY AND 2)THEY SHOULD COVER THEIR CHEST AS WELL.
IF I am wrong or anybody wants to add something, please tell me.
I want to guide my own daughter and want to explain her in detail and then to give her choice. |
|
saba2
Moderator
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Wednesday, March 24, 2010 - 3:50 PM 
Salam You seem to be the proud father of a daughter and anxious to fulfill your responsibility. You have read all that was said on the forum about head covering so you can come to your own conclusion. There is only one thing I want to add, the concept that a woman will be teased less because she is wearing a head scarf is not correct. Women in chader burqa Abbaya have been equally molested or teased as opposed to the ones who don't wear one.
A man who teases women in the street is not looking at who is wearing what, to tease ,stock or molest. He is looking at a victim who shows fear hesitation a general lack of confidence. I am not saying women should dress provocatively modesty and respect for ones own sexuality is a must. If you teach your daughter to be a good human being and give her the confidence in her own self and the toughest the judgement of deciding what is right or wrong you have given her the best of tools to live her life.
A child learns about his/her environment from his/her family.Parents are his/ her first role model. He/she observes everything how you dress, how you talk what you drink and eat his/her first lesson starts from the crib. The nurturing and you as a role model to your daughter are going to be the prime builders of her character the saying " THE APPLE DOESN'T FALL FAR FROM THE TREE" in most cases is correct. |
|
samra
UNITED KINGDOM
|
Posted - Friday, March 26, 2010 - 12:33 AM
| I feel very comfortable wearing my long coat up to the knees with long sleeves and high neck and tied up hair.I don't use makeup for shopping, work etc. only for family events or close friends parties that are almost always family based. I sometimes cover head, with a warm cap in winter and sometimes not. I believe that even without putting a shawl or dopatta or scarf on my head, in this environment I am fairly modestly covered. I hope so. |
|
safimera
CANADA
|
Posted - Wednesday, April 21, 2010 - 3:32 AM
saba2==> thank u sister for your input..
quote:
There is only one thing I want to add, the concept that a woman will be teased less because she is wearing a head scarf is not correct. Women in chader burqa Abbaya have been equally molested or teased as opposed to the ones who don't wear one.
I m happy that u raised this point...
there is a big circle of good muslims who believe that once a girl is fully covered , she could not be teased or assulted.....and in this way if something happens...they start to blame the girl that because u r not covered properly so this happened....
yes!!! generally, hijab would be helpful but covering fully yourself, is not fool-proof phenomena from being assulted....
parents and general people should consider other protective perspective as well....
samra===>
quote:
I feel very comfortable wearing my long coat up to the knees with long sleeves and high neck and tied up hair.I don't use makeup for shopping, work etc. only for family events or close friends parties that are almost always family based. I sometimes cover head, with a warm cap in winter and sometimes not. I believe that even without putting a shawl or dopatta or scarf on my head, in this environment I am fairly modestly covered. I hope so.
what u r doing is perfect...my wife is doing almost same when going out and we want to teach our daughter in this way....
but I found only Mr Ghamdi who believes that without scarf is ok...otherwise all ijmah I have found is against it and it is sin if u do not, in their opinion....
do u have any other reference of any scholar in this regard.....
jazakAllah khair... |
|
saba2
Moderator
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Thursday, April 22, 2010 - 6:14 PM
Salam,
quote: yes!!! generally, hijab would be helpful but covering fully yourself, is not fool-proof phenomena from being assulted...
how is Hijab Helpful to a woman from being assaulted or molested?
You mean to say if a woman is walking down a street with a head scarf she is more secure than a woman who is not wearing one.
As for Mr. Ghamidi saying head scarf is not mandatory that is his research and he has stated and quoted the Quran and Hadis. You have also researched other scholars view point so I am sure you can come to your own conclusion. |
|
safimera
CANADA
|
Posted - Thursday, April 22, 2010 - 7:04 PM
saba2===> I do not know about west,
but in muslim society it is a difference.....
as a man, I can tell you that majority of men consider scarf and hijab woman more respectful than one who is without scarf and hijab.....
I have been in Pakistan, UAE ,saudi arabia, Turkey and oman.....
majority of men there, do not stare at scarf or hijab women and if any fool is brave enough to tease a girl, he usually never tease such girls....
REASON...??? I DO NOT KNOW....and yes!! this is not good.....
BUT this is a culture in muslim society.....
but again as i said.......it is not a fool proof phenomena... |
|
saba2
Moderator
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Friday, April 23, 2010 - 4:12 AM
Oh I belong and live in a muslim country and am a woman so I can tell you first hand head scarf chader burqa does not protect a women from being teased or stared at. As I said earlier the man who teases is looking for a victim a woman a girl who lacks the confidence to protest.
Men who do this are perverts and have no respect for women weather clad in a burqa, chader or head scarf. I have been to turkey and have seen 2 extremes there women who are fully covered in Hijab full sleeves full skirts and women scantily dressed in shorts halters and mini skirts. Well are women teased more who are in mini skirts and halters? No of course not. Generally in Turkey I did not come across women being teased, women were walking alone or in groups using public transport late at night early in the morning going to work to study or plain just sitting in a café reading a book.
I once heard a cousin of mine complain who lived in Saudi Arabia of how some Saudi men stared as if you were wearing no clothes. In Saudi Arabia by law all women have to wear a Hijab so has it stopped men from starring ? the only reason they are not molested is due to the fear of the police if they are caught.
Unless we teach our boys to respect women irrespective of their clothes only then this problem can be solved. |
|
safimera
CANADA
|
Posted - Friday, April 23, 2010 - 5:59 AM
I said what I obsevered as a man....this thinking exists in majority of men...exceptions are there...
Even common Men who are little bit religious in practice, have this thinking that women with less dress are less respectful....
this is I am telling you the majority's opinion.....and
I am not saying this is correct thinking....
it is wrong and it should be changed....but it exists...
quote:
Men who do this are perverts and
I 100% agree with you...
quote:
I once heard a cousin of mine complain who lived in Saudi Arabia of how some Saudi men stared as if you were wearing no clothes.
imagine what they would do if woman would be there without scarf and hijab??
at that time the local police and mullas would also blame women for any mishappening....they could not allow their women to drive till now b/c they think it would be dangerous for their women , b/c of their males' such attitiude....
quote:
Unless we teach our boys to respect women irrespective of their clothes only then this problem can be solved
.
again I agree with you and same I said earlier..
but I found many many women cursing the girls for seducing and doing flirt with their sons and brothers or husbands...but they do not curse their own sons and force them to correct their perversions!!!!!!!! |
|
saba2
Moderator
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Sunday, April 25, 2010 - 5:17 AM
I am sorry but you still seem to be missing the point. When I mentioned Saudi men I did not mean they are bad or they are immoral what I wanted to point out was clothes, hijab does not stop men from staring or passing remarks it is only the consequences that stops them.
"as a man, I can tell you that majority of men consider scarf and hijab woman more respectful than one who is without scarf and hijab.....
I have been in Pakistan, UAE ,saudi arabia, Turkey and oman....."
This is a new one do muslim men really think that?..... Wow I should be vary of men of the so called background as I don't wear a head scarf or take a chadder so I will not be given respect by these so called religious men. |
|
safimera
CANADA
|
Posted - Sunday, April 25, 2010 - 12:05 PM
quote:
I am sorry but you still seem to be missing the point.
Yes I really missed your point,
but now please allow me to disagree with you a little, and I think it is important.....
quote:
When I mentioned Saudi men I did not mean they are bad or they are immoral what I wanted to point out was clothes, hijab does not stop men from staring or passing remarks
first of all, from all rules of ethics, islamic, other religious or civic, to stare or passing remarks is bad and immoral. SO in your friend example , those who were staring like she mentioned, wheather staring to a girl with scarf or to a girl without scarf, was bad and immoral.
And all saudis, or pakistanis or any male whenever do it , he would be consider bad and immoral.
now let us come to your point....
quote:
it is only the consequences that stops them.
yes consequences work sometimes, but not everytime....it is my believe that self moral values always more effective in stopping you something immoral...
whole college life I did many times such immorals activities (which i regret), but I was always afraid of my mother that if she knows , I would make suicide.... although it was just, as u mentioned earlier, "staring and passing remarks", but my mother's teaching was very strict against such activities as well.
I know some of my friends whose mothers used to say that "oy puttar ay tay jawan ay, kia karay"...
this mentality need to be changed that because he is man and jawan , so he is tempted to do that...
(although man is tempted when he is jawan to such activities....lols....but this should not be considered a valid excuse for such activities. And islam does not take this excuse as vaild and forbids it).
I wrote earlier:
quote:
"as a man, I can tell you that majority of men consider scarf and hijab woman more respectful than one who is without scarf and hijab....."
and u responded:
quote:
This is a new one do muslim men really think that?....
.
not only majority of muslim men,but majority of non muslim men also think like that.....but here u missed my point...
u wrote:
quote:
as I don't wear a head scarf or take a chadder so I will not be given respect by these so called religious men.
please read my wording again.
In my "not very good" english I used word "consider"....i meant in their mind they consider......
you took it as "given" respect....
there is a big differance between "considering respectful" and "giving respect".
Many hollywood/bollywood actors and actresses, what they do in their movies, most women and men do not consider them respectful,
but if any actress or actor meet or interact with them, they would give them respect by their hospitality and kindness...
another example:
many world leaders did not consider
George Bush as respectful but they gave him respect whenever they meet him...
in case of G.BUSH, even his some security gaurds, may be, did not like him and consider him disrespectful, but in duty, they have to salute him......lols
so do not u worry....Alhamdolilah....most men usually give respect women irrespective of their dressing...but they do not consider them as respectful as the woman with proper dressing .
i am not saying , this view is right..i m just telling you.. man's thinking as a man.
Personally, I believe this perception is wrong and should be changed and women should be considered also respectful whatever they dress.
and as I emphasized earlier that if mothers, sisters and wives will have zero tolerance for their sons, younger brothers and husbands in this regard, the scenario could be changed fastly. |
|
saba2
Moderator
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Saturday, May 1, 2010 - 4:09 PM
| Salam, sorry for disappearing , well I guess men who belong to families who's women wear hijab might think that way but men belonging to families who's women don't wear hijab don't think that way....... "but they do not consider them as respectful as the woman with proper dressing." |
|
safimera
CANADA
|
Posted - Monday, May 3, 2010 - 9:05 PM
may be ...u r right...
but in my observation it exists in all settings....
anyway...I would be happy if my observation is wrong, in this regard..... |
|
 Reply to Topic 
Printer Friendly |
| Jump To: |
|
|
|