| Author | Topic |
saba2
Moderator
PAKISTAN
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 Topic initiated on Tuesday, November 9, 2010 - 10:31 AM 
The second wife
No little girl longs to grow up and be called the “second wife” I know it is a cultural phenomena and one of the stigmas of the Asian societies that ‘a husband’s second wife is the worst thing that can happen to a woman’. It can be any situation ‘to be the second wife’ or for a husband to ‘bring in the second wife.’ The Arab women have no problem with it because that is the way they’ve been raised to view it at least that is the impression I have. How should we view the situation? First of all if Allah has permitted it, how can one oppose it or be ‘totally against it’? Once this is established that a man has the right to have more than one wife then why can’t we accept it? Why is the second wife viewed as an outcast? In most cases when a man wants to marry it is assumed the woman he wants to marry is someone whose character is questionable, someone who is a clever and conniving and has trapped this innocent man. The blame falls on the woman be it the first wife for not keeping the husband happy or on the second one for trapping the innocent man somehow the man is not held responsible. The question arises why does a man want to marry again when he already has a wife? , I think why a man would want to keep two wives is because he is ‘out’ of love with the first one and ‘in’ love with someone else. The point is that if he is then why should the first wife care what he does or doesn’t do when the major factor, love, has fallen out of her equation with him? She cannot keep him tied to herself forcibly. So why are Muslim women still hell bent to oppose a law pre-determined by Allah? |
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saba2
Moderator
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, November 27, 2010 - 12:42 PM 
| The problem with this whole situation is that what Allah has asked man is not fulfilled in most cases. The woman is usually left on her own or on her family to be taken care of. The finances of the husband are never equally divided between the 2 wives and neither is the time of the husband. The insecurity caused by the husband's second marriage causes the first wife to harbor resentment and transfer the same feelings to her children. How much responsibility is it of the man to emotionally satisfy his first wife and his children? Can a man actually be able to maintain his first wife and children of the status they were used to? Can a man give the same status to his children and make them emotionally secure? |
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safimera
CANADA
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Posted - Sunday, November 28, 2010 - 1:16 AM
quote:
The Arab women have no problem with it because that is the way they’ve been raised to view it at least that is the impression
I believe it is mere an impression in sub-continent that arab women welcome the second marriage.
I have been in gulf countries > 20 yrs since my childhood...
there is always a big protest from frist wife and other womenfolk, and I saw some took divorce and some became patients of depression!!!!
yes!! there is a big trend for MAN to have 2 or 3 wives. And yes! they have support from their manfolk there.
women accept 2nd marriage here by force and by social circumtances??what she will do??....in these cultures still man domination exists in most of the fields and women do not find any choice for the sake of children and own survival.
Almost 4 to 5 women I know , who went to high career postion b/c of their education, and then their husbands did 2nd marraige , i saw those women took divorce; b/c they have enough money and social support to survive alone...
latest worst example is famous Kuwait case last year: a woman burned to death >40 people in a wedding tent of his husband's 2nd marriage.
SO arab women are also very against of 2nd marriage of their husbands; but yes, here culture for man is more favourable than other countries.
In sub-continent, the man also soon realized after honey-moon period that he has made his life hell by this decision.
God knows better |
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Sanwal
INDIA
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Posted - Thursday, December 2, 2010 - 6:55 AM
| Man has more sex; one wife can't meet the need hence he is allowed for 4 wives. |
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safimera
CANADA
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Posted - Thursday, December 2, 2010 - 10:21 AM
sanwal===>u may be right but sex is allowed in islam NOT lust.
you have many thing to do in life to save yourself from hell in akhirah, you are not here only for sex.
if husband and wife have normal routine intimate relationship, that is enough for their satisfaction, but if a man is inclined towards lust then may be 4 wives are also not enough. it is a basic instinct...the basic instinct like urge for food..
But if you eat food more than your satisfaction and requirement then what happens==>overwaight=>obesity==>diseases===>miserable life.
same rule apply for too much sex.
four wives are allowed not because of sex.
It is to take responsibilty to help poor women especially with children.
All sahaba times polygamy happened to help poor women with children only.
Afterward muslims started to misuse this relaxation till now.
.
More than one marriage is allowed for social reasons , Not for sex..my dear.
but u r right...it is my observation that mostly men do 2nd marriage for a change(they are fed up from their first wife) or sexual attraction.
God knows better.
Edited by: safimera on Thursday, December 02, 2010 10:31 AM |
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Sanwal
INDIA
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Posted - Thursday, December 2, 2010 - 11:15 AM
quote:
......It is to take responsibilty to help poor women especially with children...
if so, what about poor man with children. |
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Sanwal
INDIA
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Posted - Thursday, December 2, 2010 - 12:23 PM
quote:
……it is a basic instinct...the basic instinct like urge for food..
But if you eat food more than your satisfaction and requirement then what happens==>overwaight=>obesity==>diseases===>miserable life.
same rule apply for too much sex.
Safimera, Urge for food is different. One can eat food beyond one's desire but can't do sex beyond his desire. And, what are the hazards of over sex like those of over eating? |
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Sanwal
INDIA
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Posted - Thursday, December 2, 2010 - 2:42 PM
quote:
but u r right...it is my observation that mostly men do 2nd marriage for a change(they are fed up from their first wife) or sexual attraction.
Well, if anyone is fed up, certainly, it's a natural phenomenon. So Is Islam (said to be on religion of nature) against such natural phenomenon. If Islam is really religion of nature, so "has it any solution of such problem (being fed up)?" |
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saba2
Moderator
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Thursday, December 2, 2010 - 4:28 PM
Is it only being fed up that prompts a man to marry the second or third time? Men can find satisfaction with one woman as his wife as is in most cases, I think it is a myth about men not feeling happy or satisfied with one woman. Islam allows a man to keep more than one wife... true but the responsibility doubles and the husband is supposed to support the wife and kids as before, how many men can do that?
The question is why does a woman stay with her husband? Lack of choices? or doesn't care as long as her needs are met? |
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safimera
CANADA
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Posted - Friday, December 3, 2010 - 4:32 AM
quote:
if so, what about poor man with children.
haha!! why not , in my opinion if he could get the chance to marry a rich woman for support, let it be.....
but let us come to the fact:
1) it is man dominated society
2) reponsibility has been put on male to earn money by God, so that poor man should try harder and harder to earn money.
quote:
Urge for food is different. One can eat food beyond one's desire but can't do sex beyond his desire. And, what are the hazards of over sex like those of over eating
I do not agree that if somebody has no desire for food and you can force him to eat???... the result is usually vomiting or maximum 2 to 3 pieces inside....
same in sex : you may go upto foreplay and then no more........
hundreds of children presenting to the doctors daily by their parents complaining "not eating"...they force them , punish them or beat them but no use.....because the children have no desire (that could be natural for some kids or due to any disease).
Secondly we are not in this world to fulfil our natural desires upto its finishing level (100% satisfaction).
I hope you are reading Quran with translation regularly....what is the teaching of Islam according to Quran:
on many many occasion God said "this world is for little benefit...little enjoyment...little satisfaction....
the real satisfaction, the real benefit and the real enjoyment in heaven ....life after death"....then Quran further says "to gain this you have to work hard, be responsible and sacrfice your things which you love for the cause of God...."
so what does it mean???
2 or 3 or 4 marriages mentioned in sura NISA only, you do your homework and ask any scholar of your choice, all will reply that "this verse at that time only to help those widow women with children whose husband got shaheed" ....not to fulfill the increased desire of sex.....do your homework in this regard...
Harmful effects of over-sex are mostly mental and psychological. There are many centres in western world which treat "sex addiction " as established disease. You can find detail by surfing online google......
quote:
Well, if anyone is fed up, certainly, it's a natural phenomenon. So Is Islam (said to be on religion of nature) against such natural phenomenon. If Islam is really religion of nature, so "has it any solution of such problem (being fed up)?"
being fed up is a natural phenomenon but temporary, u could fed up with your work for a while, with your children , with your surrounding and vice versa wife also could be fed up with you as well...but u do not take a drastic step in reaction....
solution:
just give a little break and do discussion or raise the issue of conflicts by simple talking could resolve the situation...
more importantly ask for God's help for saving you married life, pray and read Quran.
saba2==>
quote:
The question is why does a woman stay with her husband? Lack of choices? or doesn't care as long as her needs are met?
100% reason is lack of choices.......
suppose ideally, if a woman has choice of two potential men to marry of same level in all aspects (physical appearance, wealth, social status and religion) but one is already married also...where she would go????
if you say even then a woman can go for the married one....then I rest my case...lols |
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Sanwal
INDIA
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Posted - Friday, December 3, 2010 - 8:34 AM
quote:
reponsibility has been put on male to earn money by God, so that poor man should try harder and harder to earn money.
If man is disable then?
quote:
same in sex : you may go upto foreplay and then no more........
A nonsense statement!
quote:
hundreds of children presenting to the doctors daily by their parents complaining "not eating"...they force them , punish them or beat them but no use.....because the children have no desire (that could be natural for some kids or due to any disease).
Only a concerned medical man may give such statement not a lay man like you.
quote:
Secondly we are not in this world to fulfil our natural desires upto its finishing level (100% satisfaction).
I hope you are reading Quran with translation regularly....what is the teaching of Islam according to Quran:
quote:
2 or 3 or 4 marriages mentioned in sura NISA only, you do your homework and ask any scholar of your choice, all will reply that "this verse at that time only to help those widow women with children whose husband got shaheed" ....not to fulfill the increased desire of sex.....do your homework in this regard...
I disagree with your conjecture. Suppose if there is no one deserving to take zakat, would you conjecture like to abandon zakat system?
quote:
Harmful effects of over-sex are mostly mental and psychological. There are many centres in western world which treat "sex addiction " as established disease.
+
just give a little break and do discussion or raise the issue of conflicts by simple talking could resolve the situation...
Only a concerned medical man may give such statement not a lay man like you. |
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ibrahim
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, December 4, 2010 - 1:38 AM
Among many other misconceptions about Islam is the notion that it unconditionally allows a Muslim to have four wives. In this regard, some scholars have gone as far as to say that keeping four wives is a man's essential physiological need. We are afraid that this point of view is in direct contradiction with the Quran. It is, in fact, a distortion of the stance of Islam and as such has gone a long way in disillusioning many a people from the call of this faith.
The opening verses of Surah Nisaa, in which this matter is discussed, read as follows:
"If you fear that you would not be able to deal justly with the orphans, marry two, three or four of the women who are lawful for you. But if you fear that you would not be able to deal justly [with them] then [restrict yourself to] one only." (4:3)
Three implications of the verse quoted above are very clear:
Firstly, Muslims have been allowed to have more than one wife only in case of some indispensible need. In the time of the Prophet (sws), one such need arose when many Muslims were martyred in various battles. Many helpless widows and children were left behind. In this situation, Muslims were urged to look after these children and if they feared that they would not be able to do justice to them, they should marry their mothers. It is, therefore, obvious from this that the permission of marrying more than one wife has nothing to do with a man's lust for more than one wife. A person can have more than one wife if a moral or social need arises and a man's lust is certainly no such need.
Secondly, whatever the need be, the number of wives cannot exceed four in any circumstances.
Thirdly, howsoever important the need be, if a person cannot maintain balance and do justice to his wives, he must restrict himself to one. However, as clarified by the Quran*, justice and balance do not entail that he should have equal inclination towards all his wives, for this is not humanly possible. What is required is that he should treat them equally as far as their rights are concerned.
Furthermore, according to the Quran, in normal circumstances, a family comes intoÿbeing only through wedlock between a single pair of man and woman. A subtle reference to this is made by the Quran where it alludes to the fact that when the Almighty created Adam, he made Eve for him as his only wife. Naturally, had the Almighty intended that a man should have more than one wife, he would have created more wives for Adam instead of just one. This shows us that as far as a man's physiological needs are concerned, they are completely satisfied even if he has a single wife. Also, in normal circumstances the ideal family is one formed by a single couple.
Moreover, if it is felt that people are exploiting the permission granted to them by marrying not owing to some need, but merely to satisfy their desire, an Islamic government can legislate against this trend. It can obligate a person to satisfy a court that his marriage is due to some social or moral need. However, the prevailing law in this regard, in accordance with which a person has to seek permission of the first wife, is not practicable at all.
It is clear from this discussion that polygammy in Islam is conditional upon certain circumstances. It is certainly not a licence for men to satisfy their lust. The permission is, in fact, a proof of the universal applicability of Islam. A number of problems can be solved by using this attitude which would have been impossible to overcome had Islam totally forbidden polygammy. For example, in our society, many young widows and divorced women with small children have to live a life of misery and no one is willing to accept them as wives. Such widows and children can lead normal lives if this permission is benefitted from.
We have presented the stance of Islam on polygammy. It can be seen that, in present times, the fog of alien concepts has enveloped it. Once it is got rid of, the stance of Islam dazzles with the splendour of the midday sun.
The Quran says:
"You shall never be able to deal justly [as far as the inclination of the heart is concerned] between your wives, even if it is your ardent desire. So turn not away [from a wife] altogether so as to leave her suspended [in a state of uncertainty]." (4:129)
http://studying-islam.org/articletext.aspx?id=609 |
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saba2
Moderator
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, December 4, 2010 - 4:09 AM
| Salam and thankyou Ibrahim sahab. It answers a lot of questions in our minds. We all need to understand the context given by Quran itself and stop using it for our personal gain. Though I disagree with this view of the article... " For example, in our society, many young widows and divorced women with small children have to live a life of misery and no one is willing to accept them as wives. Such widows and children can lead normal lives if this permission is benefitted from." Why can't a single man marry a widow or a divorced woman? second wife will always create a feeling of misery and insecurity with the fist wife and her kids.When a man marries a woman it should be as a commitment to establish a family and not as a 'ehsan', unequal relationships are not good ones. When the society mentions in the usual circumstance a 'widow' like a handicap then the woman feels like one, why should she?We don't need handicaps we need productive members in our society. When our prophet married Hazrat Khadija he was single much younger and she was a widow much older mature and independent, she never married him because she was a helpless victim of fate and needed a sahara. We need our women to keep Hazrat Khadija as their role model. It's Hinduism where a woman is an outcast and feels her life is at an end not in Islam. |
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Sanwal
INDIA
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Posted - Sunday, December 5, 2010 - 5:29 AM
quote:
Secondly, whatever the need be, the number of wives cannot exceed four in any circumstances.
+
quote:
For example, in our society, many young widows and divorced women with small children have to live a life of misery and no one is willing to accept them as wives. Such widows and children can lead normal lives if this permission is benefitted from.
+
quote:
Thirdly, howsoever important the need be, if a person cannot maintain balance and do justice to his wives, he must restrict himself to one.
+
quote:
However, as clarified by the Quran*, justice and balance do not entail that he should have equal inclination towards all his wives, for this is not humanly possible. What is required is that he should treat them equally as far as their rights are concerned.
Ibrahim, I disagree with you & the article you posted.
If the purpose of more than one marriages is just to serve the widows and orphans, then it should be compulsory for every rich man to marry at least one widow and why a limit of 4, why not more than 4 to benefit maximum number of the women?
&
If the purpose is just to serve widows and orphans," why the balance is emphasized", rather it should be sufficient for a widow if she gets a shelter and her daily needs are met more than before this marriage.
"Balance otherwise only one" clearly puts condition on the man who seems to be the primary needy not the widows or orphans.
Or
If the widows or orphans are the primary needy why they need equal rights.
Is there any point to ponder? |
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saba2
Moderator
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Tuesday, December 7, 2010 - 10:39 AM
| Salam all, yes sanwal there is a lot to ponder on, "If you fear that you would not be able to deal justly with the orphans, marry two, three or four of the women who are lawful for you. But if you fear that you would not be able to deal justly [with them] then [restrict yourself to] one only." (4:3). What do you understand from these opening verses of Surah Nissa?How would you interpret these verses? |
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Sanwal
INDIA
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Posted - Tuesday, December 7, 2010 - 12:16 PM
| Saba2, This is not the answer of my questions. |
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