| Author | Topic |
Fatawu
GHANA
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 Posted - Sunday, January 11, 2009 - 1:43 PM 
| my question is concerning shi'a movement.where is their source. |
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mahmed08
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 3:56 AM
Assalam o alaikum!
Our attitude should be to weigh the views of each of these scholars in the scales of the Qur'an and Sunnah and decide accordingly.(Salahuddin)
I wd like to ask should we apply the same criterion to the views/teachings/work of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed sb and his followers? Mirza sb and his followers have done a lot of work on Islam. They tried to remove the misconceptions in Islam just like Al-Mawrid is trying to do nowadays.
One more thing: i have not got the answers of my questions in the previous posts. I would like the participants either to accept that Mirza sb did nt cliam prophethood or his claim was like the great scholars(sufis) of the past.
Another important thing about the understanding of Islam by the sufis of the past is:
Studying islam is of the view that the teachings/views of the scholars of the past should be analyzed in the light of Quran and Sunnat. I wd like to say that if in our understanding some of their views are contradicting the Quran and Sunnat, Should we doubt their intentions? Should we call them enemies of Islam? Should we degrade them in such a way that we put them outside Islam? Should our attitude be so harsh to them?
Some of Newton's views in the field of Science contradict Modern Science. Do scientists consider Newton an enemy of Science? What is the attitude of scientists of today towards Newton and other scientists of the past?
Regards!
M Ahmed |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Tuesday, January 13, 2009 - 3:52 PM
quote:
................if in our understanding some of their views are contradicting the Quran and Sunnat, Should we doubt their intentions?
Should we call them enemies of Islam?
Should we degrade them in such a way that we put them outside Islam?
Should our attitude be so harsh to them? .........M Ahmed
Wa alaikum assalam wa Rahmatullah.
You will find answers to your questions on the very first page of this thread posted by me, (aboosait) on Wednesday, October 15, 2008 - 4:04 PM. |
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mahmed08
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 10:45 AM
assalaam o alikum!
Before saying anthing i wd like to first summarize my questions in the previous posts:
Q1.In the view of writings of Sufis/Saints of the past, do u consider all of them claimant of prophethood? Was Mirza sb claim like those sufis/sainats or the sufis/saints of the past claims were same as Mirza sb?
Q2. Were all the sufis of the past were rejectors of the finality of prophethood on Muhammad (sallallaho alayehay wasallam) either by claiming the prophethood or by following the tasuwwaf?
Q3.So were all of them were rejecters of very basic tent of Islam (Khatam e Nabuwwat)? Should their all teachings, books, scholarly work be rejected?
Q4. In the same context please tell that what is the difference between claim of "Maseelma Kazzab" and claim of the sufis of Islam(including Ghulam Ahmed)?
One answer i received for the above mentioned questions is:
Our attitude should be to weigh the views of each of these scholars in the scales of the Qur'an and Sunnah and decide accordingly.(Salahuddin)
Then i ve put forward some more questions:
Q5. I wd like to ask should we apply the same criterion to the views/teachings/work of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed sb and his followers? Mirza sb and his followers have done a lot of work on Islam. They tried to remove the misconceptions in Islam just like Al-Mawrid is trying to do nowadays.
Q6. Studying islam is of the view that the teachings/views of the scholars of the past should be analyzed in the light of Quran and Sunnat. I wd like to say that if in our understanding some of their views are contradicting the Quran and Sunnat, Should we doubt their intentions? Should we call them enemies of Islam? Should we degrade them in such a way that we put them outside Islam? Should our attitude be so harsh to them?
Now Brother aboosait, i didnt find the answers of the above questions in the post u mentioned (Wednesday, October 15, 2008 - 4:04 PM.). If u think that ur above mentioned post answers the above questions then in the light of that post please answer one by one. Importantly u ll have to prove that u r giving answers from ur post of Wednesday, October 15, 2008 - 4:04 PM.
Please answer the questions and donot refer to any other post. If u think it to be time consuming, consume it for the sake of God.
I wd also like to request the reader of this discussion to try to find the answers of my questions in the post mentioned by my respected brother aboosait. Moderators are also requested to comment.
Regards! |
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hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
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 Posted - Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 11:56 AM
moderators hv already given their comments about the topic 
you are welcome to continue the discussion now or in case of a Q and for a scholarly reply, write to
query@studying-islam.org |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 3:27 PM
quote:
moderators hv already given their comments about the topic
you are welcome to continue the discussion now or in case of a Q and for a scholarly reply, write to
query@studying-islam.org
Jazakallahu Khair. |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Friday, January 16, 2009 - 2:15 AM
quote:
......aboosait, i didnt find the answers of the above questions........Mirza sb and his followers have done a lot of work on Islam. They tried to remove the misconceptions in Islam .............
quote:
......in 1901, he pronounced himself a prophet of God! Facing an open and strong opposition by Muslim Scholars and religious leaders for this blasphemous declaration and other teachings which belittled Jesus Christ(pbuh) and contradicted the Quranic revelations, he also announced that he was the second and improved coming of the Prophet Muhammad(SAW) with authority to reinterpret the Holy Quran at his pleasure! Not happy with mere prophethood,
.....in 1904, he declared himself the Krishna (the Hindu Lord). Obviously, like an unethical modern-day politician, he was trying to appeal to all uneducated segments of the public in India!
For reference to proof from his writings, please visit: http://www.irshad.org/exposed/i-k.php
Edited by: aboosait on Friday, January 16, 2009 2:17 AM |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Friday, January 16, 2009 - 3:10 AM
quote:
........ Sufis/Saints of the past,...........were all of them were rejecters of very basic tent of Islam......Should their all teachings, books, scholarly work be rejected..........what is the difference between claim of "Maseelma Kazzab" and claim of the sufis of Islam.........
The following are the most important fundamentals of Sufism judged by the Qur'an and Sunnah, so that Muslims can tell for themselves how devastating it is to the Muslim ummah.
• Structure of Sufi Orders
• The Certified Shaikh
•Al-'Ahd (The Covenenant of Allegiance)
• The Ritual of Sufi Wird
• Al-Khalwah (Seclusion)
• Al-Kashf (Unveiling)
• Al-Fanaa' (Annihilation)
• Manifest and Hidden Knowledge
• Al-Aqtaab
• Al-Awliyaa' 1. Structure of Sufi Orders: The mechanism of the order structure in Sufism leads to many evil results:
• Division of the Muslim ummah into fractions and orders ruled by deviant and ignorant shaikhs, thus making the ummah an easy prey for conquest by non-Muslims.
• Enmity among the adherents of different orders, to the point that they will not marry into one another's families or cooperate with one another.
• Deception on the part of the shaikh, who falsely claims the ability to deliver the murid from difficulties and deadly problems the befall him. The shaikh even claims he will be present at the murid's death, regardless of time or place, and ridiculously enough, will instruct him in his grave on what to tell the two angels of the grave, and will argue with them on his behalf.Finally, the shaikh promises to intercede for him with Allah on the Day of Judgment, and to help cross over as-Siraat (the bridge over Hell) on that Day, and accompany him to Jannah.
This kind of deception, offering security in the grave as well as in the Hereafter, is a flagrant
lie, not permissible under any circumstance. Sufi shaikhs lead simple-minded Muslims to
believe in such claims, and the result is shirk (polytheism). Deceiving Muslims is one of the
major sins.
• Insulating the murid as far as possible from the world outside the order as to exploit and
manipulate him .
2. The Certified ShaikhThe knowledge of the unseen and unknown, and whatever man's breasts conceal, is restricted to Allah alone; anyone else who claims such knowledge is contending with Allah and assuming His attributes.
The shaikhs, the leaders of chiefs of the Sufi orders, are regarded by their members as superhuman or divine, and paid more awe and reverence than was paid to the Prophet by his companions. 3. Al-'Ahd (The Covenenant of Allegiance) The Prophet said, "If two caliphs were given the covenant of allegiance, then kill the second of them." Based on this, every bai'ah which is made to other than the Khalifah of the Muslims or the Muslim ruler who is invested with authority to declare wars or ratify peace treaties and execute religious castigations, or hudood is null and void.
But the Sufi shaikhs and party leaders of today, not only make imperative that their followers give bai'ah to them, but also consider bai'ah as an indispensable religious rite.4. The Ritual of Sufi Wird The wird is another central principle of the Sufi orders, which literally means a set portion of the
Qur'an, or any other specific act of worship, which the worshipper commits himself to recite or perform, either at a particular time or occasion or on a regular basis.
But according to Sufism, the wird, or dhikr, is a practice of repeating the name of Allah, and a set of invocations assigned to the murid by
his shaikh or deputy as a liturgy of communion. They involve beseeching the dead, and seeking help from sources other than Allah. 5. Al-Khalwah (Seclusion)As for Kalwah, suffice it to know that keeping silent for a whole day is forbidden by the words of the Prophet ,
"There shall be no keeping silence for a whole day until night."
Al-Munawee, in his commentary on this hadeeth, says that keeping silent for a whole day is forbidden because it is an imitation of a Christian custom.
Furthermore, the Prophet never practiced khalwah after receiving the Divine appointment of the Prophethood, nor did his companions, may Allah be pleased with them all, nor did their followers. On the contrary, the Messenger of Allah encouraged socializing among Muslims and regarded it as praiseworthy, 6. Al-Kashf (Unveiling) There are two points against the Sufi interpretation of kashf and tajalli. First, conceiving metaphysics by kashf is impossible, yet Sufis claim otherwise, contending against the truth. The fact is that whatever exists can be conceived of only within the realm of reason. Once man loses reason, he loses the ability to conceive of anything of its reality, and turns to hallucination and utter nonsense.
Secondly, any claim that the Divine essence can appear, whether in existence or beyond it, whether materially or transcendentally, is a flagrant lie. The Prophet and Messenger of Allah, Musa, peace be upon him, whom Allah had favored with the privilege of speaking to him directly, was denied his request to see him,
It is impossible for any creature to
witness the Divine manifestations in this world as confirmed by the words of Allah: meaning, according to Ibn Kathir,
"Eyes cannot reach Him, but He can reach everything the eyes of His creatures can
reach and perceive of."(6.103) 7. Al-Fanaa' (Annihilation)Like most Sufi tenets, fanaa' is mentioned neither in the Qur'an nor in the Sunnah. It is rather a Sufi
gimmick and a satanic deception, originally schemed by mystics among the Jews, Zoroastrians and Christians to adulterate the great religion of Islam. 8. Manifest and Hidden Knowledge
The division of knowledge into exoteric, or manifest, esoteric, or hidden is one of the fundamentals of Sufism which are innovations not sanctioned by the Qur'an or the Sunnah.
9. Al-Aqtaab
Sufis believe that the universe has a master pivot, which they call al-Qutb, which is to the universe as the soul is to the body; one the qutb departs, the universe can no longer exist.• The Sufis' beliefs are not based on the Qur'an or the Sunnah. Reference to the qutb and his qualifications can be found only outside the Qur'an and the Sunnah, in the literature of the Batini, or clandestine religions.
• If all the universe is sustained by the spirituality of the qutb, then what is left for Allah to
sustain? And what would be the meaning of the Qur'anic verse:
"Allah: there is no god but He, the Living, the Sustaining."(2.255) 10. Al-Awliyaa'Al-Awliyaa' is the plural of waliy, which means a true, sincere believer. But the waliy as defined by the leader of the Tijaniyyah Order is he whom Allah distinguishes by handling his affairs and permitting him to witness His Divine deeds and attributes(!)
The conditions of "witnessability" and "distinguishability" produce a very ambiguous definition, since we know that Allah the Exalted does not take anyone other than a pious believer for waliy, and piety can be maintained by the acquisition and application of the knowledge of Allah and His names and attributes as stated in the Qur'an and the Sunnah, in which lawful things are clearly distinct from unlawful .
Edited by: aboosait on Friday, January 16, 2009 5:16 PM |
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mahmed08
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Monday, January 19, 2009 - 8:13 AM
Well brother aboosait.... one thing is clear that answers of my questions were not in ur post (Wednesday, October 15, 2008 - 4:04 PM.)
Other thing is that: we are deviating from the original topic due to some lack of communication, i think. U please answer to my questions in post (Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 10:45 AM ) one by one. Either in yes/no or short answer of each question. My point here is not to discuss what tasuwwaf is. Neither i want to discuss the details of teachings of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed. A seperate thread can be created for Ahmadiyya teachings, and i ll do that inshaAllah.
For now please answer one by one to each of my questions of post (Thursday, January 15, 2009 - 10:45 AM ). If u dont want to answer any of them, also mention that.
I wd also request all the readers of this discussion to please answer. These answers ll lead to conclusion regarding "Claim of Prophethood by Mirza sb"
Regards!
Edited by: mahmed08 on Monday, January 19, 2009 8:15 AM
Edited by: mahmed08 on Monday, January 19, 2009 8:16 AM |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Monday, January 19, 2009 - 2:01 PM
quote:
Well brother aboosait.... one thing is clear that answers of my questions were not in ur post (Wednesday, October 15, 2008 - 4:04 PM.)
You will find answers to the remaining questions in the following two posts:
1. aboosait-Posted - Friday, January 16, 2009 - 2:15 AM
2. aboosait-Posted - Friday, January 16, 2009 - 3:10 AM |
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mahmed08
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Wednesday, January 21, 2009 - 3:59 AM
well i wonder why Mr. aboosait is hesitant to directly answer to my questions? Why he is not answering these questions in a way which i requested in post of (Monday, January 19, 2009 - 8:13 AM ). Anyhow i leave the decision to the reader of this discussion. I think now i should initiate some discussions which i talked about in previous posts such as:
1. Divine Communication
2. Teachings of Ahmadiyyat
I would also like to discuss some relevant topics like:
3. Claims of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed (to be Mahdi, ibn e Maryam etc)
I ll create a new thread for these topics and provide links here, inshaAllah.
Regards! |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Wednesday, January 21, 2009 - 9:46 AM
quote:
.........I ll create a new thread for these topics and provide links here, inshaAllah..........
ok
Edited by: aboosait on Wednesday, January 21, 2009 9:47 AM |
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mahmed08
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Monday, February 16, 2009 - 3:45 AM
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mahmed08
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, March 27, 2009 - 4:49 AM
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