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student1
PAKISTAN
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 Topic initiated on Wednesday, December 22, 2004 - 9:49 AM 
Dialogue between Christians and Muslims
Asalam Aalaikum
This forum is specially dedicated for the discussion between Christians and Muslims. All Muslims and Christians are welcome to this forum and I hope that both will enjoy their discussion.
Regards, |
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nadya
USA
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Posted - Saturday, December 25, 2004 - 10:46 AM 
Asalamu Alaykum
(peace be upon you)
If there some discussion you want to initiate on this topic forum please feel free to go ahead.
Regards. |
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student1
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, January 21, 2005 - 6:11 AM
Asalam Aalaikum
Lets discuss regarding the Doctrine of Trinity which is no doubt the main cause of the difference between Muslims and Christians. Christians have strong faith in this Doctrine but Muslims donot believe in it and consider it to be against the true concept of God.
Lets discuss this issue.............
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vlias1
USA
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Posted - Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 10:36 PM
Hello student1,
As a Christian, I would be willing to discuss the issue with you. So long as it does not become mean-spirited or insulting to either one of our faiths, I think it would be a good topic. I'm not saying that you, personally, would be insulting. It's just that in 9.5 out of 10 dialogues I am involved in or read between other Christians and Muslims, this topic always gets heated.
Anyway, I'd be willing to start us off with a little background information or maybe you'd like to start with a specific question. Just let me know. :-) |
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student1
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Monday, January 31, 2005 - 1:30 PM
Vilas
Welcome to this forum, I understand your concern over the dialog which takes place between Christians and Muslims, no doubt most of the time these discussions become heated and both sides endup acheiving nothing from these dialogs but dont worry inshallah in this forum you wont find anyone insulting or abusing.
If you find any argument abusive or criticising you can complain to the moderators of this forum without any hesitation.
Regards, |
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student1
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Monday, January 31, 2005 - 1:43 PM
You can start off with the background information ,we will give our comments on it.
Regards,
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vlias1
USA
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Posted - Thursday, February 3, 2005 - 2:03 AM
Sorry that it's taken me a while to get to this, but here I am.
First off, it should be understood that as Christians, we are to believe in the whole of revelation that God has given to mankind. There is something called General Revelation and also Special Revelation.
With "general revelation", this refers to the evidence that is easily perceived by any and all people on the earth. We can see within creation evidence that there is a God.... One God. All people have, also, a "moral conscience". Some way, some how... people all over the world, regardless of their culture or upbringing, have a built-in understanding of the difference between right and wrong. Whether or not they choose to suppress this knowledge is another matter.
Now, while what we can observe in nature and within ourselves is a type or revelation of God, it is not enough to bring us to full relationship with God. Only through "special revelation" - God revealing truths about Himself - to mankind, we would be lost; it would be impossible to truly know Him.
God has revealed Himself through many vehicles and avenues. He has:
1) Spoken directly to men (i.e., Adam and Eve in the garden).
2) Spoken directly to the prophets of the OT and the apostles of the New Testament.
3) Written down laws (i.e., the 10 Commandments)
4) Appearances in various manifestations (i.e., the Burning Bush in the OT; the "Angel of the Lord" in the OT).
5) So forth and so on...
God's revelation has taken place since the beginning of humankind and continued throughout time, progressively revealing more and more of Himself and of His plan for man's salvation and redemption.
Christians believe, know and accept that God is [B]ONE[/B]. That is evident in the Bible. The final revelation of God, however, through Jesus Christ reveals to us that God is a TRI-UNITY. Jesus said that He was ONE with God, that no man had ever seen "the Father" but that He [JESUS] was making Him known.
This does not mean that we believe in 3 separate gods all controlling and running the earth separately.
The Bible says that God made man in His own image. That could refer to our intellect or reasoning; it could refer to our emotions, etc. I believe it also refers to our very nature and make-up.
Men (and women, of course) are made up of 1) a physical body, 2) a soul (our minds, our wills and emotions), and 3) a spirit (that eternal part of us, the inner person).
I am 1 person and yet have these 3 distinct areas that make up who I am.
This is only an analogy; I am speaking in human terms, I realize this.
In any case, we believe in ONE GOD. That is simple.... easy. Jesus said that even the demon spirits know that there is one God; that is nothing to brag about, but is the most basic thing that a person can grasp.
As Christians, though, we understand that God's FULL nature is this Tri-Unity.
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nadya
USA
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Posted - Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 2:18 AM
Hi vlias!
Thank you for your post!
Reading what you had to say it was interesting to note how many common aspects there are between Islam and Christianity.
Muslims also believe that the whole universe holds evidence to the existence of God, and that there is innate guidance in man and in the concept of conscience, which is supplemented by God's revealed message to mankind, through which morals matters are ascertained and God communicates about His self and the truth about the reality of this world and our lives and the coming of the Day of Resurrection and Judgement. Muslims also hold belief that God has guided mankind from the beginning, beginning with Adam.
As to how He communicated with the prophets, the Quran tells us:
"It is not fitting for a man that Allah should speak to him except by inspiration, or from behind a veil, or by the sending of a messenger to reveal, with Allah's permission, what Allah wills: for He is Most High, Most Wise." (42:51)
So even though we are informed that God spoke directly to Moses, we have to understand it in the context of this verse, and not take it to mean direct conversation like there is between people.
Another difference is that though Muslims believe that Moses heard God when he saw the burning bush, Muslims do not believe that was a manifestation of God:
"Now when Moses had fulfilled the term, and was traveling with his family, he perceived a fire in the direction of Mount Tur. He said to his family: "Tarry ye; I perceive a fire; I hope to bring you from there some information, or a burning firebrand, that ye may warm yourselves."
But when he came to the (fire), a voice was heard from the right bank of the valley, from a tree in hallowed ground: "O Moses! Verily I am Allah, the Lord of the Worlds...." (28:29-30)
A verse which illustrates the basis of the Muslim belief that God cannot be seen:
"When Moses came to the place appointed by Us, and his Lord addressed him, He said: "O my Lord! show (Thyself) to me, that I may look upon thee." Allah said: "By no means canst thou see Me (direct); But look upon the mount; if it abide in its place, then shalt thou see Me." When his Lord manifested His glory on the Mount, He made it as dust. And Moses fell down in a swoon. When he recovered his senses he said: "Glory be to Thee! to Thee I turn in repentance, and I am the first to believe." (7:143)
About the other incident that you have mentioned "Angel of the Lord" in the OT", I am not sure if there is a similar incident in the Quran. Do tell more about it, or quote from the Old Testament, I would really like to read about it.
Muslims also believe in the commandments that were given to Moses:
Say ye: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam)." (2:136)
-Allah! There is no god but He,-the Living, the Self-Subsisting, Eternal.
-It is He Who sent down to thee (Muhammad) in truth, the Book, confirming what went before it; and He sent down the Law (of Moses) and the Gospel (of Jesus) before this, as a guide to mankind, and He sent down the criterion (of judgment between right and wrong). (3:2-3)
And lastly about Jesus, Muslims believe that he was a prophet of God, and that like all prophets and messengers of God he should be loved and respected. Muslims believe in a series of Prophets which started from Adam and ended with Muhammad, among them are: Abraham, Noah, David, Solomon, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, Job, Jonah and Aaron, among others.
Muslims are required to hold them in respect equally and make no distinction between them:
-Those who deny Allah and His messengers, and (those who) wish to separate Allah from His messengers, saying: "We believe in some but reject others": And (those who) wish to take a course midway,-
-They are in truth (equally) unbelievers; and we have prepared for unbelievers a humiliating punishment.
-To those who believe in Allah and His messengers and make no distinction between any of the messengers, we shall soon give their (due) rewards: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful. (4:150-152)
The Quran mentions Jesus at many instances, to give you an idea about the Muslim belief regarding him, I will quote a few verses:
-Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah;
- "He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous."
- She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!
- "And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel,
- "And (appoint him) a messenger to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah's leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I raise the dead, by Allah's leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;
- "'(I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me.
- "'It is Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight.'"
- "'(I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me.
- "'It is Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight.'"
- When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah?" Said the disciples: "We are Allah's helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims.
- "Our Lord! we believe in what Thou hast revealed, and we follow the Messenger; then write us down among those who bear witness."
- And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and Allah too planned, and the best of planners is Allah.
- Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.
-"As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."
-"As to those who believe and work righteousness, Allah will pay them (in full) their reward; but Allah loveth not those who do wrong."
-"This is what we rehearse unto thee of the Signs and the Message of Wisdom."
-The similitude of Jesus before Allah is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: "Be". And he was. (3:45-59)
I hope my response was informative, I wanted to illustrate taking the points in consideration which you had mentioned, what we had in common, and in what aspects we differed, and to quote the Quran to explain the beliefs that we hold differently, and expand on some aspects thereof. I hope I was able to do this in an academic manner.
Regards,
Nadya.
Edited by: nadya on Friday, February 25, 2005 11:30 PM |
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Asim2
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Sunday, May 29, 2005 - 11:50 AM
With The Name of ALLAH, The Infinitely Merciful, The Ever Merciful.
Assalam-u-allaikum! (peace/safety be upon you)
www.islamtomorrow.com/converts.asp
I invite all the Christian fellows to visit the following web sites
www.islamtomorrow.com
www.islamtomorrow.com/converts.asp
and read the story of a former Catholic priest and preacher and more converts who entered Islam and check whether they can convince you too or not. You can ask questions on that web site . My comments " a beautiful, caring and friendly teaching and convincing style !"
This link gives the accounts of some of these converts to Islam.
www.islamtomorrow.com/converts.asp
"Yusuf Estes" Ex-Christian Preacher & Former Catholic Priest Enter Islam
"Yusuf Islam" Former Jazz Singer "Cat Stevens" Came to Islam
Former Bishop Accepted Islam
(author of famous book "Muhammad in the Bible")
She Became Muslim - But is Surrounded by Christians - Hard, but not impossible
Story of 15 year old Christian girl coming to Islam .
all on:
www.islamtomorrow.com/converts.asp |
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Usman
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, June 11, 2005 - 3:18 PM
ASWK! I think Muslims have been asked to be tolerant as far as doctrinal issues are concerned. To each his own. But the number 1 intolerant issue in Islam is Shirk (Association) with God almighty.
Throughout time God has shown his presence through his messengers. Unfortunately people of the old (and even today) have a temptation to worship the creation than the creator-since God is invisible/incomprehensible.
In Quran, Christians have been described as people closer to Muslims. But instead of praising and rubbing each others back, we have to tell our Christian brothers that Quran has corrected/advised the Christians, not to call God as three entities but one. Would you believe the word Trinity is nowhere mentioned in the Bible but the Quran. As Quran was the final revelation. It had to correct all previous misconceptions. Let me just put forward the Quranic mode of message delivery.
a. Allah
b. Holy Spirit-Gabriel
c. Messenger
In Islam these three entities are distinct and act as source (Allah) and dissemination of message (Gabriel and Jesus or any other messenger).
In many places in Bible Jesus called himself Son of Man.
He was a mighty messenger, but nowhere has he said I am God or worship me. When Jesus was asked the first commandment, he said, “Hear O Israel! My Lord our God is One and you should love your God with all your heart….” This is a Biblical and not a Quranic quotation. If there had been something else, he would have out rightly stated it ut like all messengers he reiterated True Monotheism-One God.
The quotation which the missionaries mostly use to prove his divinity is when he said, "I and my father are one". Christians have taken it literally.
Quran gives a similar message. "Follow Allah and his messenger". There is another place in the Quran where God tells the Prophet (regarding a pledge under a tree) that is was not your hand they pledged but Allah’s. But it does not mean that Prophet Mohammad is divine. If you look at the source/dissemination equation I explained above, indeed God and Jesus/any messengers are One- (in purpose/goal). Since we cannot see God, we look at his chosen representative to comprehend/understand God and his message.
I know there is no easy way to prove one over another, but as far as I know there are some Christians themselves who doubt the divinity of Jesus. For the first three hundred years after Christ, there was a serious dispute between the Unitarians and the Trinitarians, till when Roman emperor Constantine came and legalized Trinity.
God will stop remaining God if he starts doing ungodly things like showing himself as his creation, be it fire, man, stone, air or rock. This is a concept of pantheism prevalent in pagan societies like India, pre-Islamic Arabia, Romans and Greek.
The best answer to the concept is given by God himself in Quran in Surah Ikhlas, when a group of Christians from Najran came to Medina in the Prophet’s mosque to talk about the incarnation of Jesus. The answer came as a direct revelation:
“Say he is is Allah the One
Allah the Eternal!
He begets not nor is begotten.
And there is none comparable unto him”.
So the moment you can make a mental picture of God, he stops remaining God.
God Bless All… |
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Usman
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, June 11, 2005 - 3:18 PM
ASWK! I think Muslims have been asked to be tolerant as far as doctrinal issues are concerned. To each his own. But the number 1 intolerant issue in Islam is Shirk (Association) with God almighty.
Throughout time God has shown his presence through his messengers. Unfortunately people of the old (and even today) have a temptation to worship the creation than the creator-since God is invisible/incomprehensible.
In Quran, Christians have been described as people closer to Muslims. But instead of praising and rubbing each others back, we have to tell our Christian brothers that Quran has corrected/advised the Christians, not to call God as three entities but one. Would you believe the word Trinity is nowhere mentioned in the Bible but the Quran. As Quran was the final revelation. It had to correct all previous misconceptions. Let me just put forward the Quranic mode of message delivery.
a. Allah
b. Holy Spirit-Gabriel
c. Messenger
In Islam these three entities are distinct and act as source (Allah) and dissemination of message (Gabriel and Jesus or any other messenger).
In many places in Bible Jesus called himself Son of Man.
He was a mighty messenger, but nowhere has he said I am God or worship me. When Jesus was asked the first commandment, he said, “Hear O Israel! My Lord our God is One and you should love your God with all your heart….” This is a Biblical and not a Quranic quotation. If there had been something else, he would have out rightly stated it ut like all messengers he reiterated True Monotheism-One God.
The quotation which the missionaries mostly use to prove his divinity is when he said, "I and my father are one". Christians have taken it literally.
Quran gives a similar message. "Follow Allah and his messenger". There is another place in the Quran where God tells the Prophet (regarding a pledge under a tree) that is was not your hand they pledged but Allah’s. But it does not mean that Prophet Mohammad is divine. If you look at the source/dissemination equation I explained above, indeed God and Jesus/any messengers are One- (in purpose/goal). Since we cannot see God, we look at his chosen representative to comprehend/understand God and his message.
I know there is no easy way to prove one over another, but as far as I know there are some Christians themselves who doubt the divinity of Jesus. For the first three hundred years after Christ, there was a serious dispute between the Unitarians and the Trinitarians, till when Roman emperor Constantine came and legalized Trinity.
God will stop remaining God if he starts doing ungodly things like showing himself as his creation, be it fire, man, stone, air or rock. This is a concept of pantheism prevalent in pagan societies like India, pre-Islamic Arabia, Romans and Greek.
The best answer to the concept is given by God himself in Quran in Surah Ikhlas, when a group of Christians from Najran came to Medina in the Prophet’s mosque to talk about the incarnation of Jesus. The answer came as a direct revelation:
“Say he is is Allah the One
Allah the Eternal!
He begets not nor is begotten.
And there is none comparable unto him”.
So the moment you can make a mental picture of God, he stops remaining God.
God Bless All… |
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