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hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
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 Topic initiated on Tuesday, September 22, 2009 - 9:02 PM 
was bible revealed to jesus/essa (sws)
would be nice to have some thoughts on this.the Q has been posed to studying islam by a muslim friend and we hv also asked friends from other faiths to send their opinion. |
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hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
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 Posted - Saturday, September 26, 2009 - 7:09 AM 
hv recvd some resposes from our interfaith colleagues, as below:
hi, Josephus the Jewish historian talks of Jesus being crucified, and a new sect called Christians believing that he rose fromteh dead and followed him. THe New TEstament of the Bible contains letters written by Jesus followers a relativley short time after his death and resurrection. They speak of how the new church formed within weeks of the death and resurrection of Jesus.
Certanly within a short time, Christianity had spread from Israel into what is now Turkey, Greece, Italy, Malta, Crete, Jordan, Egypt and North Africa.
This is off the top of my head. I would have to look other refs up.
As Christians we believe that something momnetous must have happened after Jesus death to change a very frieghtened and defeated group of people, Jesus' disciples into a movement which they spread worldwide, even being prepared to be tortured andkilled inthe most horrible ways. would anyone allow this for a lie?
Does this help?
Linda
Hi Henna,
The Bible as we know it today is a translation from ancient Hebrew and Greek manuscripts. It is made up of writings (Books) of different people who have been inspired by God. The Old Testament comes mainly from the Prophets and from the Jewish Law i.e the Book of Leviticus. The books of the New Testament (i.e The Gospels & the Letters of St. Paul etc) were written from about 45 years on after the death of Jesus and recall his ministry and the Ministry of the Apostles.
The Early Church's Council's ( i.e. AD 321 onwards) decided which books should be 'in' and those that would 'not' be included. They chose the 39 that make up the Old Testament and 27 that make up the New Testament. These are not standard of course as there are some minor differences between what the Eastern Orthodox Churches have adhered to and what the Reformed Churches of the West have adhered to, but essentially the are what Christians all over the world adhered to in one form or other.
The Bible (as we know it) was not something given to Jesus. As a Jewish Rabbi, he would have been very conversant with the scriptures of the Old Testament and the History of the Jewish people. Hence, when we read the books of the New Testament we see that Jesus makes many references to the Old Testament Prophets and their teachings.
So, in essence, the Bible is a collection of writings by the Prophets of Old and of those who either knew Jesus personally during his 33 years of life here on earth or by those who recalled the stories of his life which would have been passed down the generations. All however are seen being inspired by God i.e the Bible being Word of God.
For some Christians i.e. fundamentalists - everything in the bible is seen as being 'The Word of God'. For the more liberal of Christians it is seen as being revelation which is to be interpreted afresh in every generation.
Hope this helps
Allen
Hi Henna
Do you mean that the text of the Bible was in any way given to Jesus - as a revelation? Christianity doesn't really come at it from this viewpoint at all.
The Bible is in two parts - old and new testament. The Old Testament is the Jewish law, Jewish History, prophesy and psalms/songs - effectively the context and setting the scene for the arrival of Jesus. The new Testament is the Gospels (four accounts of the life of Jesus, three narrative and one more exploratory), then accounts of the early church, letters and writings from the Apostles (especially Peter and Paul) to the early churches, and a final book of prophesy of the end times. The Bible was put together by the early church fathers, as a canon that should not be added to or taken away from. So in this way the Bible is not a revelation to Jesus at all.
But in another way, we believe Jesus was/is ''the Word made flesh' - so He is Himself the revelation.
I've not studied theology, and I wouldn't know where to begin with texts to be honest. I know there is real evidence for a reformed understanding - that Bible must be understood anew by each generation. Of course there are a great number of people with a literalist view too.
A really good book on Christian Theology basics is this book (intelligent, not dumbed down, but all the terms explained!)
I hope this helps a little.
(and a greeting of Eid Mubarak to you and your family)
A
Andrea
Dear Henna,
This is a difficult question to answer as it embodies several 'Muslim' misunderstandings about 'what the Holy Bible is'. The Bible as understood by Christians is a library of 'books' with a consistent account of how God Almighty has revealed himself to humankind as the God and 'Father' of Our Lord Jesus Christ down through the millenia of human history. It is a pilgrimage, a journey from primitive responses to a sense of the transcedent reality of God to an understanding of God as personal, compassionate, merciful, gracious and intimately involved with the ongoing creation of the Universe with humanity's responsible involvement within it. It is a record of a developing response to divine revelation.
The Bible has two main sections. The more ancient contains the Torah (The divine law originating in a revelation to Moses but revised to meet the conditions of later times in history more than once). That is the most important part for 'Orthodox Jews'. It also contains the writings of the 'former' and 'later' prophets (Nebi'im) and the liturgical psalms and other writings used in Jewish worship (ketubim). Jewish people refer to these as the 'Tanach'.
Christians refer to it as the 'Old Testament'. 'Testament' means much the same as 'covenant' in this context.
Christians also have what they refer to as the 'New Testament' which is a collection of writings which show (so they believe) that the promises of God's 'salvation', (an idea which needs a good deal of explanation), is fulfilled in the life and ministry of Jesus.
It includes four 'Gospels',-followed by a historical account of how the Christian faith broke out of the confines of the Jewish world and spread throughout the known world of the time. It also includes 'Epistles' or letters written by St Paul to the young Churches that he established at the time to resolve the tensions and misunderstandings that arose out of competition with the Jewish diaspora and the pagan government.
There are also letters by Peter, who became the Bishop of Rome, James the Bishop of Jerusalem and Jude who is thought to have been one of Jesus' brothers.
The final book is a vision of 'the Day of the LORD', the final judgement, described by St John of Patmos. The whole then is a guide to spiritual development, to becoming more Christlike.
I hope this is helpful. Every blessing, Philip
Henna
Not an easy question to answer! The Bible is a very different kind of book from the Quran, and plays a different role for Christians. It was not given at one time, or through one person. What we call the Old Testament is the Hebrew Bible, made up of three kinds of book. The Law (Torah) was given through Moses. The Prophets through a many different prophets (most of whom are not mentionned in the Quran) over several hundred years. The writings came through various people, on various occasions. Jesus knew all these books, and referred to them in his teaching. He committed his teaching (and his work!) to his followers. They recorded this, and applied it in the developing life of the Christian Community (the Church, which we believe Jesus founded). The books they wrote make up what we call the New Testament. All this activity took place, we believe, under the guidance of God's Holy Spirit, who was active not only through the authors, but has continued to be active in guiding the work of interpretation and translation down the centuries. Through the activity of the Holy Spirit Jesus is seen to be a continuing, living force in the life of the Christian community.
From a Muslim perspective this probably seems very unsatisfactory ... but no more unsatisfactory than the Quran seems from a Christian perspective. Dialogue means we have to try and step out of our own shoes and try to see things from the point of view of the other faith. That is not easy!
Hope this helps, if only a little. A lot more can be said about the preservation of the text, but that is for the real experts.
John
Dear Henna,
The one thing I omitted in my answer was the answer to your correspondent's question; Did Jesus receive the Bible? Of course as a Jew in Judaea in the first century of the CE the Torah, Prophets and Writngs (Tanach) would have been the Scriptures he was familiar with and which he read and studied and meditated upon morning and evening every day. In the gospels it is made clear that Jesus preached from these scriptures in the Synagogue in Nazareth - especially from the prophet Isaiah on the coming of the Kingdom of God.
Glad to be of help. Philip
Dear Henna,
Sorry to be so long in replying but I was in France until last night.
There is no physical proof that anything was ‘given’ to Jesus as none of his possessions still exist, as far as we know.
However, the Hebrew Bible, or Old Testament as Christians often call it, was frequently quoted by him and as a Jewish Rabbi or teacher he probably knew most of it by heart.
The New Testament, which is the other half of the Christian Bible, was of course written after the death of Jesus, and, because it told of his life and teaching, could not have been available to him.
There is plenty of evidence of the Hebrew Bible in the form of the Dead Sea Scrolls and other records as well as the writings of Jewish historians such as Josephus, who also wrote about Jesus.
The history of Abraham, the ‘Father in Faith’ of Judaism, Christianity and Islam, was, of course, recorded in the Hebrew Bible.
Does this help?
All good wishes,
Paul
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