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lofty
UNITED KINGDOM
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 Posted - Wednesday, July 15, 2009 - 2:13 PM 
I think I have a very good idea how Hadiths were collected and compiled. There was a lapse of nearly two and half centuries from the year of the death of Prophet to the time when Imam Bukhari started collecting and compiling Hadiths, therefore he certainly did not receive information from "direct sources". (although Imam Malik's muttawa is earliest hadith work but scholars have pointed out many flaws in that work).
The point I am trying to make is this: If you reject the author of book because he was not present at the times of Prophet then you should also reject Hadith literature because it too got compiled after the demise of Prophet. This leaves us with no historical record of Prophet at all and no "authentic" book on Islam other than Quran!!
I have already pointed out in my post above that the author has very comprehensive bibliography at the back of book and he has written whole chapter explaining how he gathered his sources. His research work received excellent reviews from the critics. What else do you expect from the author to make the book "authentic". If I follow your logic then we end up rejecting every book written on Islam other than Quran. This is possibly my last post on the topic and I apologise if I have said something wrong. At the end of day, as I said earlier, it's up to you accept or reject the incident reported in the book.
Peace
Lofty |
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atifrafi
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Thursday, July 16, 2009 - 10:20 AM
Dear Lofty,
First of all please make sure I am not here to fight for anything... We all are students and trying to learn. I think I am unable to clarify my point. I'll try just once more:
The particualar incident you are quoting, is there any reference for this particular incidence? If yes, please share, as we haven't heard this before from anyone. You are quoting something new which must have a solid proof.
The bibliography you mentioned.... Is there any reference of any other book which quoted the same incident? See, its not possible that NO ONE else knows this except the author u r quoting....
About the Hadith Books, I am not rejecting those. My point was that even after ALL the Careful work and lifelong hardwork of some the most eminent scholars, still there are doubts in the Hadeeths, then why can't there be any question on the book u r quoting?
I hope this time I am able to clarify.
Regards |
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Seemeen
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
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Posted - Saturday, July 18, 2009 - 9:27 AM
Salam,
I second atifrafi. Lofty u need to have full evidence for stating a fact. where did the author u mention get this piece of information. has he elaborated on that point?
one will make many statements but you cannot accept all if one is mature enough to understand the consequences of anything said about anyone. Yes, one cannot be fully sure of the authencity of the Ahadith. But who are those who are not sure of it? those who are highly critical. I am not saying it is a wrong thing. Allaho A'lam. the point here is, even after one knows how much of hard work has gone in the compilation of Ahadith there are still people who have some doubts regarding even the Sahih Ahadith.
And here you are talking about an author who claims something without any evidence/proof (at least you have not provided them even if he mentions it). u r quick to caste doubt about the ahadith. but not so about the unverified statement of the author?
Do not take this negatively. but reason this. one should be very careful in associating statements to anyone, especially the Prophet (s.a.w.w.). Without doubt, he was also a human being. But not like other human beings. no one can doubt that. the difference between other human beings and Muhammad (s.a.w.w.) is his Taqwa. If our taqwa etc were equal to his (s.a.w.w.) then we would also be prophets.
The topic here was about love. I don't know much but i can use my reason and say that what one feels for another usually is not in their hands. If it is pure. if any wrong thoughts are associated with this, let alone acts, then it is haraam. Also, one should not start idolising the person. anything that creates distance between man and God (being ghaafil of God), that causes a person to start walking of the path of being devoid of God, it is a fitnah.
However, it is better to have an answer based in Qur'an. Allaho A'lam.
Fee amaan Allah |
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shah_625
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, July 18, 2009 - 4:39 PM
I have been a silent participant so far in this topic and what I have seen is that atif and lofty are arguing on something that doesn't have anything to do with the topic, but since the argument has some weight so I would just like to express my opinion in it's regard.
Brother atif I may agree that what lofty qouted about Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) doesn't have any proof, but personally I don't think falling in love is a sin or a taboo.
A human being has a heart, a heart which loves, and can fall for anyone. Our beloved Prophet (PBUH) was a human too and in a young age such emotions are normal. Like you said "f it is pure. if any wrong thoughts are associated with this, let alone acts, then it is haraam."
Now coming to the difference between us and our Prophet, actually I'm going to elaborate a little on your point. Since he was a Prophet he certainly had the best control over his feelings and desires. Unlike us, in our case it's the opposite. |
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atifrafi
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Monday, July 20, 2009 - 7:05 AM
Dear Shah_625,
I know that I am arguing on something which is not related to the topic But I believe that this is something very serious thats why I started this discussion.
Brother, My point is very simple.... If you don't have any proof then I cannot accept anything. Debate is NOT about the fact that the act is legal or not, point iswhat is the proof. I can accept if there is any proof available.
See, Prophet's (sws) life history is only available through Ahadees and its mandatory that there is any proof in Ahadees for ANY act....
Just for example, If someone says that Prophet (sws) did HAJJ 10 times in His lifetime or offered 10 FARZ prayers in a day, even then I'll ask for a proof. No one can argue that offering HAJJ or Namaaz is not a good act but to ascribe anything to the Prophet (sws) one has to be very careful and should provide some proof.
Also, please note that I am not saying all this for only Prophet Muhammad (sws), but if someone says anything about anyone, my argument will be same... Whats the Proof?
I hope I am able to clarify. |
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shah_625
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Monday, July 20, 2009 - 7:20 AM
Yes brother I understand your point and I have no objection with it, your absolutely right.
In my opinion Aadith talk about Prophet's life as a Prophet, not about his early life, so you won't find this incidence in Aadith. |
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raushan
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
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Posted - Monday, July 20, 2009 - 8:25 AM
quote:
In my opinion Aadith talk about Prophet's life as a Prophet, not about his early life, so you won't find this incidence in Aadith.
and how come you are so sure about an event which is not recorded.
any reference.which may give any hint abt it?or just a pure guesswork.
plz share'
wassalam |
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shah_625
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Monday, July 20, 2009 - 9:25 AM
I never talked about whether this incident was true or not I talked about whether there was something right or wrong about it
Edited by: shah_625 on Monday, July 20, 2009 9:34 AM |
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raushan
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
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Posted - Monday, July 27, 2009 - 8:21 AM
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lofty
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Sunday, August 2, 2009 - 6:17 PM
| Guys, I do not know how author got this information and there is no reference provided for this incident in the book. We can't demand scholars to provide a reference for every line they write in a book. We just trust their research and judgement! |
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raushan
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
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Posted - Monday, August 3, 2009 - 7:07 AM
quote:
We can't demand scholars to provide a reference for every line they write in a book.
very true ..in case this will be termed as work of fiction and author must declare this in the beginning, rather than giving an impression abt the text as based on truth.
quote:
We just trust their research and judgement!
if author claims of research then must give ingredients of his /her research in the bibliography. |
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