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saadiamalik

PAKISTAN
Topic initiated on Thursday, February 10, 2005  -  11:11 AM Reply with quote
So are Women really Intellectually Deprived?


Abu Sa‘id Khudri narrates that the Prophet (sws) while once talking to a group of women on the occasion of Eid ul Fitr or Eid ul Adha said: ‘… and I have seen no one more than you rob even a resolute man of his senses in spite of being Naqisati ‘Aql wa Din’. They said: ‘O Allah’s Messenger, what is this Naqs in religious and worldly affairs?’ He said: ‘Is not the evidence of a woman equal to half of a man’s’. They said: ‘Yes’. He said: ‘This is their Naqs in worldly affairs’. He said: ‘Is it not a fact that when they enter the period of menses they neither pray nor fast’. They said: ‘Yes’. Whereupon he said: ‘This is the Naqs in religious affairs’. (Bukhari, No: 298)
oosman

USA
Posted - Thursday, February 10, 2005  -  5:13 PM Reply with quote
It is one of the topics already clarified by Mr Saleem here

http://www.studying-islam.org/forum/topic.aspx?topicid=1249&lang=&forumid=1
oosman

USA
Posted - Saturday, February 12, 2005  -  4:31 AM Reply with quote
I am strongly against the opinion that women are intellectually any less superior than men. It is the same brain in both man and woman, and I am sure one day when they will be having brain transplants like they have heart transplants today, that will prove that women are just as smart as men.

As for you comment about there being no female prophets, can you prove for a certainty that out of the 124,000 or so prophets sent to mankind, none was a woman? What is your evidence?
saadiamalik

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, February 12, 2005  -  11:21 AM Reply with quote
quote:

Exceptions may be there but in general, women are not only physically, socially, economically, emotionally and spiritually deprived but intellectually a well. The higher mental or intellectual functions does not mean to obtain marks 950 out of 1000 but comprise concentration, memory, intelligence and decision making and the latter is poor in women than men, does not mean that in the courts but in all aspects of life even cooking, stitching, knitting and embroidering etc handicrafts in the hands of the men look more distinguished. Moreover the women are more jealous than man and even the princess of Wales (May her soul be blessed), of different race and culture and a symbol of sympathy and social work shaking hand with the patients of AIDS, could not forgive or spare herself.


Are you not challenging the creation of man?

If it will suit you, you'll suggest that women were made to stay inside their homes, do home chores, cook, stitch, embroider - you know, the work that you, as "an intellectually superior man", would think of as scum.

As for decision-making, try and write a brand new history on the 'failures of Hazrat Khadija (ra)' as a businesswoman.

As for memory and intelligence, throw half the corpus of hadith right out of your house for it must come from an 'intellectually deprived' Aisha (ra).

Or were they 'exceptions"? Seriously, where do you get your understandings from?

Bro Oosman has referred us to the right opinion - or at least, one that is true to the sources that we take from.

http://www.monthly-renaissance.com/Feb22y5.htm
saadiamalik

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, February 12, 2005  -  11:27 AM Reply with quote
Loveall: Moreover the women are more jealous than man and even the princess of Wales (May her soul be blessed), of different race and culture and a symbol of sympathy and social work shaking hand with the patients of AIDS, could not forgive or spare herself.

Hmm...weren't you the one advocating that women be kept inside the house as much as possible, in fear that if she steps out, she may just share a word or two with non-mahram man?

One who cannot allow others to be free and independent, is insecure, jealous and dependent from within.
oosman

USA
Posted - Saturday, February 12, 2005  -  3:17 PM Reply with quote
I believe 'the higher degree' assigned to men over women is not because women are intellectually poorer, but it is because of the physical nature of the woman. And by that I also do not mean that less stronger than men, because women wrestlers and weight lifters have shown they can be just as strong or stronger if they build their muscles.

The physical nature I am talking about that leaves a woman not able to do the things a man would do are pregnancy, menstruation and breast feeding the baby. Pregnancy causes many women to be sick, some cannot even move from their bed or eat anything. While some women in their monthly periods have painful cramps that hinders them from doing their normal chores. And a breast feeding mother has to feed the baby every three hours round the clock 24 hours a day sometimes.

These limitations that Allah has set on women restrict her activities. Can you expect a woman who is sick because of pregnancy every other year or in pain due to menstrual cramps to be the leader of the household. That is why I believe men have their responsibilities and women have theirs. It is not because women are dumber than men.



And Allah knows best.
student1

PAKISTAN
Posted - Saturday, February 12, 2005  -  3:33 PM Reply with quote
Asalam Aalaikum

We can say that ladies are not as intelligent as men but it doesnot mean that they are intellectually deprived.
when you say that a person is intellectually deprived ,then it means that the person has zero intellectual level which I think is not possible.

I have seen some ladies who are even more smart and intelligent then men.
The example is the West, where not only male Scientists are working in the field of Science and Technology but also female Scientists are working as well but they are in minority as compared to male Scientists.

Their are also some western ladies working in NASA as astronauts and also their are several Lady teachers and professors in the Universities of Europe and America who teach Mathematics, Physics and Medicines.

If Women were intellectually deprived ,then they would not have acheived these posts.

Take an example of Madam Benazir Bhutto ,the EX-Prime Minister of Pakistan, she is a very intelligent lady and even President Clinton has praised her,she graduated from Harvard University and not everyone can graduate from it.

Donot degrade ladies by starting these kinds of discussions after all they are Allah(swt)'s creation and the most sweatest creation, dont forget that your mother, sister and wife is also a female, If you say that women are intellectually deprived, then you are also putting the intellectual level of your mother ,sister and wife under question.

Regards,
askhalifa

UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
Posted - Sunday, February 13, 2005  -  6:16 PM Reply with quote
I am strongly against the opinion that women are intellectually any less superior than men. It is the same brain in both man and woman
I believe 'the higher degree' assigned to men over women is not because women are intellectually poorer, but it is because of the physical nature of the woman

Brother Oosman you can believe anything you like your belief does not make any difference. It is not same brain!!
We are in 21st century so instead of "thinking" and making guesses, see what research tells us. This has been scientifically proved that there is major difference between male and female brain you find these studies on the website not from mullas but from western universities
you will find hundreds of such research if not thousand. Just go through few of them. I found them in 5 mins of effort
http://www.boingboing.net/2005/01/21/difference_between_m.html
http://www.newhorizons.org/neuro/diamond_male_female.htm
http://www.betterhumans.com/News/news.aspx?articleID=2003-10-20-7
http://www.brainplace.com/bp/malefemaledif/default.asp
http://faculty.washington.edu/chudler/heshe.html
and finally if you can read urdu read this as well
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/science/story/2005/01/050118_havard_remarks_fz.shtml
oosman

USA
Posted - Monday, February 14, 2005  -  6:55 PM Reply with quote
Assalam alaikum,

Did you read the articles you asked me to read? They only support my point even more:

"...there are no real differences in general intelligence between the two sexes."

"..however, result in equivalent overall performance on broad measures of cognitive ability, such as those found on intelligence tests."

Your articles show the male and female brains are a little different because of the different bodily tasks they have to do (like sex organs are different so brain is a little different), rest of it is same and has no affect on the intellectual capabilities. Thank you for proving my point.

As for the last link, Dr Summers later released a statement in which he said: "My remarks have been misconstrued as suggesting that women lack the ability to succeed at the highest levels of math and science. I did not say that, nor do I believe it."


http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200501/s1285074.htm


Again thank you for showing that men and women have the same intellectual capacity as given by Allah.
Irsalfwalsh

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, February 14, 2005  -  8:13 PM Reply with quote
Yuck!!!!
Many More, wait.
Irsalfwalsh

PAKISTAN
Posted - Monday, February 14, 2005  -  8:14 PM Reply with quote
Yuck!!!!
Many More, wait.
tweety

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Monday, February 14, 2005  -  10:10 PM Reply with quote
how are women intellectually deprived when Allah says clearly in the quran in chapter 2 surah bakara
-women are equal to men
apart from the rank in responsibility- in which men are 1 degree higher
but thats for the woman's own comfort bcuz she has so many responsibilities in the home of looking after the home so the over all responsibility goes to the man so thers less stress on the woman
and hte whole 2 witness things is along the same lines
2 women will be needed to stand as witness but 1 man needed because the woman has so many things on her mind at home such as children etc that she is more likely to forget or not recall the matter so the second woman may b calld 2 remind the 1st
bcuz a woman generally has more responsibilities in life
this ayah in surah nisa relates Allah's blessings on the women- not sayin theyr dumber
hope that clears it up ^_^
tweety

UNITED KINGDOM
Posted - Monday, February 14, 2005  -  10:18 PM Reply with quote
"We can say that ladies are not as intelligent as men"
that is SO not true!!!!
the only reason there r more men scientists or watever is cuz the women are kept at home by their husbands!
u did know that on average girls are hav a much higher pass percentage in xams than bois do?
saadiamalik

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, February 15, 2005  -  8:23 AM Reply with quote
quote:

You are not only showing poor decision making but poor concentration as well and moreover your repeated posts before my reply as well. What does it indicate? Are you not proving my claims? Perhaps you have not seen that I have mentioned, “Exceptions are there- my first words”.


A classic exhibit of dishonesty: I referred in my post, to your condition of "exception". Yet, you chose to ignore that part. I don't even know why I'm arguing with you.

quote:

I ask Saadia, “Can you please be a volunteer to be examined intellectually to create a standard of women” and “Why do you want to see only what you have in your brain” You must know that you will remain a women, can never be a man.


Haha. If there were such a need, I'd volunteer. I'd love the praise! (See, women have a sense of humour too, and that's a sign of intelligence!)

In any case, as I was saying, if there were such a need, I'd volunteer - but never to dimwits.
student1

PAKISTAN
Posted - Tuesday, February 15, 2005  -  8:39 AM Reply with quote

Asalam Aalaikum

I donot agree with the statement that women are kept in house by their husband thats why their are less lady Scientists then gents, this doesnot mostly happen even in the third world countries ,and let alone in West ,where ladies donot have any restriction on them from their husbands.

The possible reason for having more gents Scientists then Ladies Scientists
could be that few ladies apply for this field as compared to gents.

Regards,
karime

PAKISTAN
Posted - Wednesday, February 16, 2005  -  1:11 PM Reply with quote
A.A

Being a docent, I would like to inscribe some in this regard, if you do not mind because you are looking regular part of this forum and I interrupt you; what you (all) are writing, no doubt doing well because, after a long discussion or controversy one could get something new or different other than his/her own believe and can reach or create a new sense of knowing something well.
I may be inappropriate or unable to explain but what I think or believe I share with you.

Allah says that there is no one superior to other but conduct, so it should be clearly understand that we all are equal to one an other, if we want to be superior, we should run in the way to do good, better, best and the best…., it is that can make us superior to others. Allah does not need our good-looking……. etc, because what ever there is HE created it and did well. Now neither a man is superior to a woman nor a black to white. If there is any thing, that it is conduct or deed. No one is born male or female by his/her own wishes or efforts that one should be proud of being it. Every thing is created by Allah; and we are created nothing but to obey HIM.
Allah made this universe or angles, human being, prophets, animals, plants, rivers, sun…………etc to run & accomplish this whole system according to his wants. Every one has been given commands to do one’s job.
Our job is to obey accordingly and we are one of the parts of this system.
Allah also says He has given someone (SUBKAT) to other, as they get work from one an other. It does not mean that they are created less, (as it is even not shown who they are- male/female) but this is a part of his/her life; and it is obvious that one is today a poor & rich, master & slave, good & bad, he may be rich or poor …..etc. in future.
So every one has to play his/her part as male/female, father, mother, sister, brother, laborer, master, poor, rich, …..etc.

Now physically, sexually, structurally, emotionally…….etc can be one different from other BUT these could not be his/her hindrances or preventing factors that can stop or make him/her superior or get more gifts from Allah. His/her duty is to do his/her job (obeying Allah- this is the mission, nothing else is valuable).
If any one think that being a woman/man one can not obey rightly or get the status what Allah wanted than surely he/she is wrong.
More, this man & woman has been shown commands or verses through Prophets of Allah how to obey or lead a life.
In short, as Shakespear “ Life is a stage and every one has to play his role”.
Regards,
A.karime, Jacobabad

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