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JunaidHasan
GERMANY
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 Posted - Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 9:14 PM
1. A Sunnah may be recorded in the Hadith but a Hadith cannot approve a Sunnah as it itself depends on the Sunnah (practice of the Ummah in following the Prophet (SAW)) for its approval. All the Muhaddaseen agree to it. This is one of the basic rules of Muhaddaseen to see if a Hadith is in accordance with the Sunnah.
2. Ahadith have not reached us through the practical consensus of the Ummah, whereas, Sunnah has.
Because of the above two points, a Hadith, even if Sahi, cannot be as reliable as Sunnah. A Hadith that is Sahi in the eye of one muhaddis can be criticized by another. For example, a number of scholars have objected the very Hadith of Sahi of Bukhari (RA) in which the Prophet (SAW) has predicted destruction for a Nation that selects a woman as its leader.
Nobody can disagree to an established Sunnah but there has always been a lot of difference of opinions in the other affairs of the Prophet (SAW) which are not established by him as Sunnan. For example, lifting a cloth higher than the ankle. Some people think it’s necessary whereas other do not. Both have their reasons. On the other hand, no one argues about the act like circumcision of a male child. This is the major difference between the Hadith and the Sunnah which needs to be appreciated. |
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Shaan
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Thursday, July 20, 2006 - 4:39 AM
1.You are stating here about the mass practice of ummah like praying 5 times,hajj,circumcision,etc..Classical scholars agree that a hadith is not fit if it goes against Quran,established Sunnah and other ahadith which have already been approved.
What the prophet said,did or approved is not termed as sunnah in this course rather the perpetual practice of ummah is sunnah.I find it strange that since there is no dispute on Quran and established sunnah,then why have they have utilized ahadith to give rulings.They differ on rulings and ahadith as being abrogated or not,etc...example the Ahnaf claiming that rafa-yadin was abrogated afterwards.
Another complex issue comes with the methodology of Imam Malik which uses ahadith,fatwa and practice of people of medinah as source of rulings.
I think they use ahadith as a source because of their interpretation of Quranic verses which command to obey(what he commanded) and follow(what he did) the prophet(pbuh)).
2. What about mutawatir ahadith.Are there any or none ? Are mutawatir ahadith a source of shariah like Quran and Sunnah because of their authenticity ?
Khatib Baghdadi, the author of "al-Kifayah fi`ilm al-Riwayah"2 defines Khabar-i-Tawatur as follows:
It is that Khabar which is quoted by such a large number of persons that in normal circumstances it is impossible that on a manifest subject so many people would, at one and the same time, agree on a false matter, when there is no evidence of any pressure on them too.
To my knowledge, no Hadith exists which satisfies the definition of Khabar-i-Tawatur. Sometimes a Hadith is assigned the status of a Khabar-i-Mashhur3. However, on investigation, it is discovered that during a span of three periods only one or two narrators could be established, whereas their number was found to increase during the period of the third or fourth period. Likewise, in my opinion, such Ahadith as have been declared as Khabar-i-Mutawatir stand in need of investigation. If they come up to the prescribed standard, only then should they be accepted as Mutawatir. Without this investigation, it would not be correct to accept anything as Mutawatir. It must, however, be remembered that so far as the Sunnah is concerned, it does hold the status of Tawatur (continuity), as we shall explain further. And this Tawatur is not verbal, but practical.
(Translated from Mubadi Tadabbur-i-Hadith by S. A. Rauf)
http://renaissance.com.pk/jafelif986.html |
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usmani790
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Thursday, July 20, 2006 - 8:04 AM
Assalam Alikum
I wish to share the words of our Prophet(pbuh).Which are above all to the rest of the humanity for all of us.Intelligentsia may be wrong in the concept and understanding of deen,but the words of Prophet(pbuh) can never wrong. May Allah guide us to the straight path.
Hadith 1.
The Beloved Prophet (Salla Allahu ta'ala alayhi wa Sallam) said "The Jews split into 71 groups; one will enter Paradise and 70 will enter Hell. The Christians split into 72 groups; 71 will enter Hell and one will enter Paradise. By Him in Whose Power is the life of Muhammad, without doubt, my Ummah will be divided into 73 groups. Only one will enter Paradise and 72 will enter Hell."
When asked which group will be on the right path, the Beloved Prophet (Salla Allahu ta'ala alayhi wa Sallam) replied, "The main (al-Jama'ah) body of the Muslims." [Ibne Majah Kitab al-Fitan]
Hadith 2.
The Beloved Prophet (Salla Allahu ta'ala alayhi wa Sallam) said " There was disagreement amongst Jews and they split into 72 groups. In exactly the same way, there will be disagreement and divisions in my Ummah. It will split into 73 groups. Apart from one of those groups, all the remaining 72 will be thrown into Hell."
When asked which group will be on the right path, the Beloved Prophet (Salla Allahu Alayhi wa Sallam) replied, "The group on the right path, which will enter Paradise, will be the group which follows my Sunna and that of my Sahaba and this will be the largest group of Muslims." [Tirmidhi, Imam Ahmad, Abu Daud, Mishkat]
Hadith 3
The Beloved Prophet (Salla Allahu ta'ala alayhi wa Sallam) said "Without doubt my Ummah will never be gathered in misguidance. Whenever you see disagreement, then hold fast to the Sawad-e-A'zam (the great majority)" [Ibne Majah]
Hadith 4.
The Beloved Prophet (Salla Allahu ta'ala alayhi wa Sallam) said " Follow the way of the largest group of Muslims! For, he who deviates from this group will be thrown into Hell!" [Ibne Majah]
Hadith 5.
The Beloved Prophet (Salla Allahu ta'ala alayhi wa Sallam) said "The devil continually pursues humans as a wolf pursues sheep. The wolf only dares to attack those sheep which have separated from the rest of the flock and are standing alone. And so, my followers and my devotees! Save yourselves from being caught in the traps of misguidance and firmly remain with the largest and most well known group of Muslims!" [ Imam Ahmad]
Hadith 6.
The Beloved Prophet (Salla Allahu ta'ala 'alayhi wa Sallam) said " Allah will never allow my Ummah to unite upon misguidance and incorrect beliefs. Allah's mercy, blessings and protection are with the largest group of Muslims. And he who deviates from this largest group of Muslims will be thrown into Hell." [ Tirmidhi]
Hadith 7.
The Beloved Prophet (Salla Allahu ta'ala 'alayhi wa Sallam) said " He who deviates from the largest group of Muslims, even as much as a hand span, has himself cut off his connection with Islam." [Abu Daud, Imam Ahmed]
Having quoted no less than SEVEN Hadiths, from authentic sources, two things become clear:
1. The Muslims will divide into 73 Groups
2. The largest group will be the right group |
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Shaan
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Thursday, July 20, 2006 - 10:50 AM
What have these ahdith got to do with the topic in hand ???
Couldn't understand what you were trying to show.Please elaborate.
Edited by: Shaan on Thursday, July 20, 2006 10:52 AM |
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usmani790
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Thursday, July 20, 2006 - 11:39 AM
Dear Shaan,
The vast majority of muslims don't hold the understanding of Sunnah as this web-site coming up with.This what I am saying from my first post.
My discussion with brother Junaid has proved this.
Majority of the schalors of today and recent past were discussed with brother Junaid but found that all have diffrent understanding of Sunnah then this course and all have same views on Sunnah as I have provided here or closer to it.
If any one still have doubt,I will advised to him, to survey 100 Mosques and see what is their understaning of Sunnah is.You will know where majority standing with.
So one should follow the understanding of Sunnah as what the majority of Muslims believes.
If one don't agreed with the maority of Muslims on understanding on Sunnah,then he must ponder on the Ahadith provided above. |
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JunaidHasan
GERMANY
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Posted - Thursday, July 20, 2006 - 12:44 PM
Shaan:
First, I love and appreciate your attitude much. I have never found you “biased” and it appears as if you honestly want to learn the true status of the things in Allah’s Religion. Most appreciated! Masha’allah; keep this great attitude with you, always. May Allah guide us all to the right path. (A’men!)
ONE:
Brother Usmani said, “My discussion with brother Junaid has proved this.”
Please Brother, don’t be so conclusive. Let the reader decide who proved what.
TWO:
Ahadith are the most difficult topic, in Islam, to understand. Mere words tell very very little. We need to see a number of things about a Hadith in discussion. For example:
a. Who are its addresses?
b. What is the Quranic ruling in regard to which it is said?
c. What all of the other Ahadith, describing the same topic, say?
d. What are the circumstances in which it is said?
e. If the complete thing that the Prophet (SAW) said is presented in it or may be found in another Hadith?
f. If it is Sahi or Hasan or Daif or Modu?
Ummah has been misled a great deal by presenting the mere wordings of Ahadith to the commoners without taking into account the above points.
Let me give an example: If you pull out the following sentence from my life:
“Oh you Muslims: do not enter into mosques.”
And present it to anyone without its background; the listener would think that I have given a very wrong verdict. However if anyone reads it in the background that there were some criminals hiding in the particular mosques of an area and I was asking the Muslims of that area not to enter the mosques for some time until the criminals were taken out, the reader would understand then the true meaning of the verdict given.
Only a scholar can elaborate more on the Ahadith presented by Brother Usmani above because if you talk about the majority of so called Muslims, they are surely involved in a number of innovations, for example, Chaliswaan, Eid Milad-un-Nabi (SAW), Asking others except Allah for the divine help, blind following etc. etc. Of course, no literate Muslim will join the majority in such innovations.
In anyway, I am not ready to accept any Hadith from Brother Usmani as I found him wriggling the words of a Hadith and even quoting Ahadith with wrong references.
THREE:
To the best of my knowledge, there is no Hadith that fulfills the definition of Khabar-e-Tawatur.
FOUR:
Ahadith, no doubt, are used by the Islamic jurists, for example, Aima Shafa’e and Abu Hanifa (RA) etc. Of course, Ahadith should be used for this purpose. I mean, how can one separate oneself from a saying of the Prophet (SAW) when it is thought to be authentic (rightly ascribed to the Prophet (SAW)) by a jurist? Of course, every wise man would take guidance from the Hadith. Even if not as authentic as Sunnah still Hadith is an extremely important source of guidance for a literate Muslim.
Sincerely,
J.
Edited by: JunaidHasan on Friday, July 28, 2006 6:01 PM |
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Shaan
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Thursday, July 20, 2006 - 2:59 PM
quote:
Dear Shaan,
The vast majority of muslims don't hold the understanding of Sunnah as this web-site coming up with.This what I am saying from my first post.
My discussion with brother Junaid has proved this.
Majority of the schalors of today and recent past were discussed with brother Junaid but found that all have diffrent understanding of Sunnah then this course and all have same views on Sunnah as I have provided here or closer to it.
If any one still have doubt,I will advised to him, to survey 100 Mosques and see what is their understaning of Sunnah is.You will know where majority standing with.
So one should follow the understanding of Sunnah as what the majority of Muslims believes.
If one don't agreed with the maority of Muslims on understanding on Sunnah,then he must ponder on the Ahadith provided above.
Are you saying that the above Ahadith are saying to "follow the understanding of Sunnah of the Majority."
No where in the Ahadith is it even hinted what you are saying.I wonder how did you come to that conclusion.The Ahadith are saying that the majority are correct.Follow the majority.In Terms of what ? The Ahadith are silent on this.So I am wondering how you arrived at the conclusion that the above Ahadith are referring to the majority in terms of "understanding of sunnah".
Edited by: Shaan on Thursday, July 20, 2006 3:00 PM
Edited by: Shaan on Thursday, July 20, 2006 3:02 PM |
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Shaan
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Thursday, July 20, 2006 - 3:22 PM
quote:
FOUR:
Ahadith, no doubt, are used by the Islamic jurists, for example, Aima Shafa’e and Abu Hanifa (RA) etc. Of course, Ahadith should be used for this purpose. I mean, how can one separate oneself from a saying of the Prophet (SAW) when it is thought to be authentic (rightly ascribed to the Prophet (SAW)) by a jurist? Of course, every wise man would take guidance from the Hadith. Even if not as authentic as Sunnah still Hadith is an extremely important source of guidance for a literate Muslim.
Sincerely,
J.
The issue is not about following the authentic Ahadith.It is about method of interpreting the Ahadith.The classical scholars interpret Ahadith as an independent source of shariah besides the Quran.
For example,in Quran we find that interest is haram.Similarly in Ahadith we find that wearing gold and silk for men is forbidden.
Here is where the split between classical scholars and Ghamidi's point of view comes.The classical scholars take the directive of wearing silk exactly as if it were from Quran.They see it as another directive of Allah not mentioned in Quran but in Ahadith ascribed to the prophet.
On the other hand Mr. Ghamdi will view the forbiddance of wearing silk and gold for men as application of preventive measures by the prophet(pbuh) to eradicate wasting of money, show off, and pride in that society and will still be forbidden today if used in that fashion because all the original commandments and forbiddances are found only in Quran.Authentic Ahadith can't add and abrogate any commandment and forbiddance in Quran since Ahadith are not an independent source of shariah.
Both theories have their own strong points to justify their position on the concept of Sunnah.I pray to Allah to show us the right understanding of sunnah.
Edited by: Shaan on Thursday, July 20, 2006 3:30 PM |
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JunaidHasan
GERMANY
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Posted - Thursday, July 20, 2006 - 9:17 PM
Shaan wrote, "On the other hand Mr. Ghamdi will view the forbiddance of wearing silk and gold for men as application of preventive measures by the prophet(pbuh) to eradicate wasting of money, show off, and pride in that society and will still be forbidden today if used in that fashion because all the original commandments and forbiddances are found only in Quran."
He sees a forbidden thing in the Hadith like this because the Prophet (SAW) himself explained the reason, on a number of occasions, for forbidding something in the light of the human nature or Quran.
Nobody sees the Ahadith as an independent source. Had this been the case, a Hadith needed not to be matched with the Qur'an and Sunnah for its authenticity. |
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Shaan
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, July 21, 2006 - 5:39 AM
quote:
He sees a forbidden thing in the Hadith like this because the Prophet (SAW) himself explained the reason, on a number of occasions, for forbidding something in the light of the human nature or Quran.
Really ? I would like to see the references for this.Interesting.
quote:
Nobody sees the Ahadith as an independent source. Had this been the case, a Hadith needed not to be matched with the Qur'an and Sunnah for its authenticity.
In my knowledge all the classical scholars view authentic ahadith as an indepedent source of shariah even though they may differ on
1). its interpretation and being abrogated or not by another authentic hadith,etc.. which is also the case with Quran .
2). sometimes a certain hadith being authentic and fit for ruling for one scholar and not so for the other one.
If Quran is Furqan then why can't it be used to distinguish the authentic ahadith,verses of bible from the non-authentic ones as Mr. Ghamidi himself insists on that Bible can and should be read in light of Quran since it is Furqan.What's wrong with the concept that one independent source (Quran) being used to seek another independent source(Ahadith) inspite of the fact that the prophet(pbuh) and the rightly guided caliphs never made a special arrangement for its preservation.
As for ahadith being matched with Sunnah the methodology of classical scholars is that a hadith is not acceptable if it is found in contradiction to the established Sunnah and other authentic ahadith.
They put the established sunnah,sahih and hasan ahadith all into one tub which is known Sunnah.
You can also see that they view the ahadith,once confirmed for their authenticity, as an independent source of shariah in their rulings on punishment of death for apostasy,stoning for adultery,etc.. even though they differ on its details You can read it in Burhan that Mr. Ghamidi has stated that the fuqaha have made mistake and said that ahadith can't add or abrogate the basic corpus of shariah which to him consists of Quran and established Sunnah only.
Edited by: Shaan on Friday, July 21, 2006 5:40 AM |
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usmani790
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, July 21, 2006 - 11:16 AM
Brother Junaid
ONE:
You wrote: -Please Brother, don’t be so conclusive. Let the reader decide who proved what.
Reply:-I am agrees on that with you.
TWO:
You wrote: -Ummah has been misled a great deal by presenting the mere wordings of Ahadith to the commoners without taking into account the above points.
Reply: -This could be true to an extend only but in the overall context, it is a blind blame to the peoples who are involved in the preaching of Allah deen to commoners.This is very unfair with those peoples, we always use to blame for so many things, but we are not ready to do the job of a Mullah in the mosque.
You wrote:- you talk about the majority of so called Muslims.
Reply:-Are you saying that,they are not Muslims?please clarify it.
You wrote:-Only a scholar can elaborate more on the Ahadith presented by Brother Usmani above because if you talk about the majority of so called Muslims, they are surely involved in a number of innovations, for example, Chaliswaan, Eid Milad-un-Nabi (SAW), Asking others except Allah for the divine help, blind following etc. etc. Of course, no literate Muslim will join the majority in such innovations.
Reply: -Brother these innovations mostly belong to the Muslims of the sun-continent only and I may be wrong but I don’t think they are in the majority here.There are more than 50 Muslims countries in the world today. These bidah are very seldom found in other parts of the Muslim world. So at large, majority of Muslims Ummah are not involved in these bidah.
I was in Malaysia for more than five years, I never came across there that the people are involved in these bidahs even in the neighbouring Muslim countries, Indonesia, Brunei as well.Now since this world is become globel village,we knows what hepening in the other parts of the world.
You wrote:-In anyway, I am not ready to accept any Hadith from Brother Usmani as I found him wriggling the words of a Hadith and even quoting Ahadith with wrong references.
Reply:-It is very sevior blame on me, I think you are habitual to blame others.
THREE:
You wrote: -To the best of my knowledge, there is no Hadith that fulfills the definition of Khabar-e-Tawatur.
Reply: -This is where the problem lies, with only a little knowledge of deen peoples speak too much about it wronly. This could be because if we follow a single scholar in every aexpect of deen and gave him priory over other scholars.
Scholars like Maudoodi sahib or Hakim-ul-Ummat Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi Sahib are born in cenctries. They had the command over all aspect of deen. No all scholars can be like them. They could be very good in some particular area of deen but not in all areas. What we do mistake that we start following them in all the areas of deen where they might be no so good.
So I find that its better not stick with a single scholar or two rather try to listen and read others scholars and also try to understand their views on the matters of deen as well.
Allah Hafiz |
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usmani790
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, July 21, 2006 - 11:18 AM
Dear Shaan
You wrote: -Are you saying that the above Ahadith are saying to "follow the understanding of Sunnah of the Majority."
Reply: -Not only Sunnah, in every matter of religion. Whenever we see disagreement in any matter of deen we should follow the way of majority group’s practices and understanding.
Disagreement could be between you and me or between two or more schelors. So Prophet (pbuh) has provided the guideline to the Ummah what they should in this circumstances.
Allah Hafiz |
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Shaan
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, July 21, 2006 - 2:29 PM
Dear Usmani,
You wrote:-Not only Sunnah, in every matter of religion. Whenever we see disagreement in any matter of deen we should follow the way of majority group’s practices and understanding.
Reply:-So that means that one should be Hanafi since they are in majority at this time.
You said that the ahadith say to follow the majority in terms of religion.How do you come to this conclusion.Its not mentioned in those Ahadith.
Also what do you think about the time ? If a majority at one time becomes minority at some other time in history and vice versa.then what ? whom one should follow ? |
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JunaidHasan
GERMANY
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Posted - Friday, July 21, 2006 - 9:26 PM
Shaan wrote, “Really ? I would like to see the references for this.Interesting.”
See the viewpoint of him about the directive of keeping the cloth higher than the ankles. For more details, please start watching the program: Live with Javed Ahmad Ghamidi at Aaj TV on every Sunday 12:10 pm (specially Dars-e-Hadith).
Shaan wrote, “If Quran is Furqan then why can't it be used to distinguish the authentic ahadith,verses of bible from the non-authentic ones as Mr. Ghamidi himself insists on that Bible can and should be read in light of Quran since it is Furqan.What's wrong with the concept that one independent source (Quran) being used to seek another independent source(Ahadith) inspite of the fact that the prophet(pbuh) and the rightly guided caliphs never made a special arrangement for its preservation.”
Who says that the Quran is not used to check the authenticity of a Hadit.? Muhaddaseen used to compare a Hadith’s text with three things:
a) Quran
b) Established Sunnah
c) Common sense and established facts
“ilm-ad-diraya” is the branch of the Islamic Science which deals with this kind of examination of a Hadith.
Usmani wrote, “This could be true to an extend only but in the overall context, it is a blind blame to the peoples who are involved in the preaching of Allah deen to commoners.”
I don’t think it’s blame but reality. Anyway, you have a right to disagree.
Usmani wrote, “Brother these innovations mostly belong to the Muslims of the sun-continent only and I may be wrong but I don’t think they are in the majority here.”
What about something like Sufism? Is it a Sunnah? If not the majority but half of the Ummah has backed it almost in all ages.
Usmani wrote, “It is very sevior blame on me, I think you are habitual to blame others.”
I presented the text of the Hadith as presented in Sahi Bukhari. It was quite different than the same Hadith that you tried to quote. Until you’d explain to me that difference and also provide me the correct references of the other Ahadith that you presented with the wrong references, I’d not accept any Hadith from you.
Usmani wrote, “This is where the problem lies, with only a little knowledge of deen peoples speak too much about it wronly. This could be because if we follow a single scholar in every aexpect of deen and gave him priory over other scholars.”
Wish you had presented a Hadith that fulfills the condition of being “matwatir” instead of calling the other people wrong.
Usmani said, “Scholars like Maudoodi sahib or Hakim-ul-Ummat Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi Sahib are born in cenctries. They had the command over all aspect of deen. No all scholars can be like them.”
It is your own perception that I do not agree with. If you’d start this topic now, it may go longer than the discussion we’ve had about the Sunnah.
Usmani wrote, “So I find that its better not stick with a single scholar or two rather try to listen and read others scholars and also try to understand their views on the matters of deen as well.”
I strongly agree. |
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usmani790
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 11:41 AM
Dear Shaan
You wrote: -So that means that one should be Hanafi since they are in majority at this time.
Reply: -Brother I said and also hadith saying if there is disagreement, these four Madabs are in harmony with each others, either of them can be followed.
You wrote: -You said that the ahadith say to follow the majority in terms of religion. How do you come to this conclusion. Its not mentioned in those Ahadith.
Reply:-Our Prophet (pbuh) and every Prophet (May Allah be pleased with them all)came in this world to teach us the religion only nothing else. So it is obvious that we will interpret religion from these Ahadith.
You wrote: -Also what do you think about the time? If a majority at one time becomes minority at some other time in history and vice versa.then what? Whom one should follow?
Reply:-It never hapened in last 1400 years, Sunni Muslims who follow the way of Sahaba were always in majority. Allah used to speak from the Prophet (pbuh) tounge, His words were never proved wrong.
Please don’t mind and try to understand my another point here.that’s how we learn from each other. This Satan is our enemy, he used to create false ideas in our mind to keep away us from the truth. We need to ponder on Quran a lot. I am quoting some verses that how can Satan mislead us by throwing His ideas in our mind and how we can save our self from Him.
That He may make the suggestions thrown in by Satan. , Al-Hajj, Chapter #22, Verse #53)
And on them did Satan prove true his idea, and they followed him, all but a party that believed. , Saba, Chapter #34, Verse #20)
Verily Satan is an enemy to you: so treat him as an enemy. He only invites his adherents, that they may become Companions of the Blazing Fire. , Fatir, Chapter #35, Verse #6)
Those who fear Allah, when a thought of evil from Satan assaults them, bring Allah to remembrance, when lo! they see (aright)! , Al-Araf, Chapter #7, Verse #201)
When thou dost read the Qur'an, seek Allah.s protection from satan the rejected one. , An-Nahl, Chapter #16, Verse #98)
There is another point I want high light.
The Messenger believeth in what hath been revealed to him from his Lord, as do the men of faith. Each one (of them) believeth in Allah, His angels, His books, and His apostles. "We make no distinction (they say) between one and another of His apostles." And they say: "We hear, and we obey: (We seek) Thy forgiveness, our Lord, and to Thee is the end of all journeys." , Al-Baqara, Chapter #2, Verse #285)
And they say: "We hear, and we obey.
This is what Allah saying for Sahaba, whenever they hear some thing from Prophet (pbuh) Quran or Ahadith.
The difference is that the Sahabah have the opportunity to directly hear things from Prophet (pbuh). What we have is the record of His sayings. We have lots of problems with the ahadith as brother Junaid used to explained. What he says also not all wrong but what happened actually we stuck in these things what the part of believing and obeying is left behind. Is this what Allah want us do in the above verse?
Allah Hafiz |
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Shaan
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, July 22, 2006 - 12:45 PM
I wrote: -So that means that one should be Hanafi since they are in majority at this time.
You wrote: -Brother I said and also hadith saying if there is disagreement, these four Madabs are in harmony with each others, either of them can be followed.
Reply:- Sorry but nowhere does any of the ahadith mention anything about four madhabs.It is saying refer to majority and is also silent on which matters.
Also the Quran says something else from what you interpret the ahadith.
"O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those charged with authority among you. If you differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger if you do believe in Allah and the Last Day: that is best and most suitable for final determination."
(Al-Qur'an 4:59)
As mentioned in the verse quoted above, when people in authority, the rulers, leaders, imams and scholars differ amongst themselves, our Creator instructs us to look into the Qur'an and the authentic Ahadith for guidance. The legitimacy, relevance and accuracy of the reasons and evidence provided by these people should be evaluated in the light of the Qur'an and the Sunnah. However, it should be borne in mind that infallibility belongs to Allah alone and a scholar, being a human, can make an error of judgement.
http://www.irf.net/irf/faqonislam/index.htm
There is also disagreement in some matters within each madhab.Following is 1 example:-
Question:-I was told that if one misses the communal congregational prayer in the mosque he is not aloud to make his own congregation prayer if he arrives late. is this true.
Answer:l-Walaikum assalam,
There are two famous positions regarding this in the maddhab:
1. The transmitted position from Abu Hanifa, which is that a second congregation in the masjid is prohibitively disliked;
2. That mentioned by many late scholars, and adopted for fatwa in most of the later works, as shown by Ibn Abidin in his Radd al-Muhtar, which is that a second congregation is not disliked if performed away from where the first one is performed. [see: Ibn Abidin, Radd al-Muhtar]
In general, a lot of major Indian scholars chose the first position, for many reasons, including:
a) it is Abu Hanifa's own position, and the general principle is that one does not leave the Imam's position unless the evidence of another position is stronger, or if the general practice is contrary to it, or if it would cause general undue hardship
b) its textual evidence appears to be stronger;
c) it avoids the problem of people coming late for the first congregation, because they can simply pray in a second one, and other reasons.
The general practice in Arab lands, including in Damascus, however, is on the second position, for many reasons, including:
a) it is easier for people;
b) it is what most of the later scholars of the school have chosen, and they were more knowledgeable about the details of the school, its principles, and methodology than we are, and they only chose this for good reasons;
c) it enables people to pray in congregation, and come to the mosque even when they are late (instead of merely staying at home or in their work place);
d) this is the general practice of people, and one is supposed to leave people to their general practices, unless there is clear harm in doing so.
What one does would depend partially on where one is.
Personally, I follow Abu Hanifa's own position, but let others take the other opinion.
Walaikum assalam,
Faraz Rabbani.
http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=1217&CATE=4
As you can see from above the answer of the scholar is based on evidence rather than statistics of who is in majority.Its been more than 1400 years and no scholar in my knowledge has ever used statistics in islam.
I wrote: -Also what do you think about the time? If a majority at one time becomes minority at some other time in history and vice versa.then what? Whom one should follow?
You wrote:- It never hapened in last 1400 years, Sunni Muslims who follow the way of Sahaba were always in majority. Allah used to speak from the Prophet (pbuh) tounge, His words were never proved wrong.
Reply:-Sorry but there is no word of sunni in those ahadith and also there is no agreed upon definition of Sunni.Some defined it in terms of politics that Abu Bakar(ra) was the first caliph.Others define it in terms of Aqeedah i.e. Asharis and Maturidis are sunnis.Still others define it in terms of taqleed of any 1 of 4 Imams,etc..Also each school of thought(deobandi,barelvi,ahl-e-hadtih) claims itself to be the true sunni and others misguided and deviant.
I've listened to a Brelvi scholar's answers to ahl-e-hadith on his website who also appears on Qtv and in that audio he used the same ahadith which you quoted to attack his opponents by saying that the ahl-e-hadith are in minority and the Sunnis(Barlevis) are in majority..blah blah..
Edited by: Shaan on Saturday, July 22, 2006 12:54 PM
Edited by: Shaan on Saturday, July 22, 2006 1:05 PM |
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