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Posted - Sunday, November 12, 2006  -  8:45 AM Reply with quote
QUOTE of waseem: - Then the definition of a muslim according to the Qur'an. amar i bilmaroof and nahi unil munkar.

I think, every religion advises for, “amar i bilmaroof and nahi unil munkar (enjoin the good and forbid the evil – 31: 17)” If some non-muslims do bad deeds (like some Muslims do), their religion NEVER allows them. Could you please elaborate further, if I am not correct?



To date, I have been the member of this site for last 2 years, 1 month and 14 days. One thing which I still could not understand, “Some Muslims of today’s thinking say about some Quranic verses that these are for the Prophet Mohammad’s (peace be upon him) time ONLY” while Holy Quran is the Last Book of God till the Day of Judgment. So according to this logic of the Muslims, more than half of the Holy Quran does not seem to be applicable to us. For example, in the verse 31: 17 (amar i bilmaroof and nahi unil munkar) Prophet Luqman (peace be upon him) is advising his son to enjoin the good and forbid the evil. So according to the logic mentioned above, how the verse can be applicable to us? Similarly how the talks between prophet Musa (peace be upon him) and Firon, between prophet Yusuf (peace be upon him) and Zulaikha, between prophets Nuh (peace be upon him), Loot (peace be upon him), Saleh (peace be upon him) etc and their nations and between prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and the Mushrekeen, are applicable to us. Holy Quran is full of such matters of the past. So what is the base on which the Muslims say that these verses are for the Prophet’s (peace be upon him) time ONLY.


Posted - Monday, November 13, 2006  -  8:39 AM Reply with quote
Salaam brother

In my very limited understanding of religion. I quote Javaid Ahmad Ghamidhi

What does the religion ask of you?

1. Understand the religion in its true sense
2 Practical application of religion in our own lives.
3. Tell that to others in your circle in manners that are appropriate and with wisdom, to those who want to know in the manner of inzaar.

Javaid Ahmad Ghamidhi further states. What is the differance between a true believer and non believer.( surah Baqrah)

A believer believes in

1. Belief in ALlah as is the right of Allah
2. Believe on the Day of Judgement as is the right belief
3. Performs amal i saleh (righteous deeds in light of divine instruction)

We then look at surah Asr the Qur'an tells us who will succeed

1. Those who have true faith
2. those who perform amal i saleh
3. Tawaasi bil Haq
4. Tawassi bisabr.

I would like to add that as far as I understand amal i saleh and good deeds are not the same. good deeds are judged by this society. If someone donates to charity with an ulterior motive of succeeding in politics. it may be deemed a good deed but it will not be amal i saleh as Islam is a religion of intention.

Thus my understanding is that the responsibilities of a true believer are as above.learn about religion , practical demonstartion in his/her own life. and within their circle i.e friends collegues family, with wisdom, we must tell others.

I think as we see in surah Asr, if we have to perform tawasi bil Haq we will also have to perform aml i saleh. I think if I knew someone who was doing something wrong and whilst I felt I was in a position to help or advise, I say I cannot be bothered then I feel I am not fullfilling my religious duties. amal i saleh is amri bil maroof and naheh unil munkar.

Allah knows best

Posted - Monday, November 13, 2006  -  1:58 PM Reply with quote
salaam brother Loveall

In my very limited understanding of religion. The Glorious Qur'an contains AL-Hikmah i.e philosophical basis of religion, this is everlasting, AL-Kitab or Shariah which is rules and regulations, these are everlasting too. In addition it contains historical record of the prophets before to remind the readers about the choices and fates of nations.In addition it was the source for Guidance and instructions for the prophet pbuh and through him for the muslims of that time to deal with issues that they were facing. Those issues have to be read in the context of that period and cannot be said to be applicable for today. The Al-Hikmah and Shariah is ever lasting.

For example AL-Baqrah 190-194 where it states" and where ever you find them (mushrekeen) kill them and take them out from where they have turned you out from"This was said in referance to a specific time and issues of that time. Muslims wanted to perform pilgrimmage and they were told if the Quresh resisted or stopped them then their attitude should be like this. We cannot use this to mean that it means today wherever we see a non believer we kill him.

Similarly, Surah Anfaal verse 65-68 states " among yourselves if there are 20 steadfast, they will previal over 200"

This is specific to the battle of Badr and happened in specific circumstances to give encouragement to the muslims fighting that battle as they were severely out numbered. We cannot interpret it today and the ratio as we learn changed to 1;2 afterwards.

Similarly issues regarding the battles of Tabuk, Uhad and Badr have been quoted in the QUr'an and pertain to that time. like instructions about muslims not participating in the war.The issue of the three sahabhi who initially refused to go to war and then accepted their mistake and the peophet pbuh is guided in the Qur'an that Allah will decide their fate and then their forgiveness is accepted in the Qur'an.

We also note that Hazrat Zainab rta Nikah with prophet Mohamamd is mentioned as that was an issue at that time.

Surah Al Kafiroon has speciifc adressees. Lakum deenukum walyadeen is not the muslims aproach towards non muslims in general but this was the surah that signified the completion of Itmaam ul hujjah on the mushrekeen of Makaah and signalled that the prophet was going to migrate from Makkah.

Thus if we read the Qur'an with its nazam and referance to the context, only then we can appareciate that certain instructions and certain commandments were specific towards the non believers of that time and cannot be meant to address the non believers of today.

We also se that the Qur'an came over a period of twenty years and in that time their are changes in the QUr'an according to the need of time in instructions like alcohol, fasting.

We have to bring in the concept of itmaam ul hujjah into this.It is Allah's rule that no nation or people have been punished till ALlah; through His prophets did not reveal Truth beyond any reasonable doubt and the people refused to accept the truth either beacause of stubborness or ego. Thus those instructions that pertain to mushrekeen and ahl i Kitab of the prophet pbuh's time when Truth had been revealed to them by the prophet of Allah and ONLY then in the Qur'an they were called Kafirs or disbelievers, and those verses were specific for them. The ahl i kitab and non believers of today , we cannot say have had itmaam ul hujjah thus we cannot use those verses of the Qur'an to apply on them.

Posted - Monday, November 13, 2006  -  2:07 PM Reply with quote
Well said waseem.

There are other examples too. Like punishing the wife for being unchaste. First the Quran says to lock them up for a period of time inside the home. Later it says that zani should be lashed 100 times. Apparently this is contradictory, so we have to apply each in its context and time. Another example would be that masters are told intercourse with slaves is ok. Later men are told to marry the slave women first. Also the other thing is slavery does not exist today in the form it used to, so this whole section of the Quran probably does not apply to our lives any more.

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