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usmani790
PAKISTAN
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 Posted - Friday, March 2, 2007 - 11:05 AM 
Dear Salman
If you are claiming some thing so you must be able to prove it.If some one says that I am a thief so I am not worried about it.The person who said that must be able to prove it.
Secondly I have already given some referances from Quran and Sunnah, I can give you more.The problem is, it seems to me the way you are here,you wish prove Tasawwuf wrong only and you are not here to learn about Tasawwuf.
Regards, |
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salmant
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, March 2, 2007 - 11:33 AM
| My claim is accompanied by my arguments supporting it. Incase you dont want to, or are not able to refute it, it is completely fine with me. But when the topic of "Tasawwuf" is being discussed in such a forum, it is important for the benefit of everyone to bring the criticism in front of everyone as well. If there is any truth to Tasawwuf, that should be brought forward by the refutation of criticism on it. However, if you feel you have already done enough, then let us leave it to the individual choice of the readers to decide on the matter. |
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usmani790
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, March 2, 2007 - 11:58 AM
But you are not here to learn about Tasawwuf rather make it some more bad in the eyes of the partcipants.
Am i wrong here? |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Friday, March 2, 2007 - 12:14 PM
quote:
But you are not here to learn about Tasawwuf rather make it some more bad in the eyes of the partcipants.
Am i wrong here?
So you admit that it is bad and you want the participants to learn it. What for? |
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salmant
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, March 2, 2007 - 12:17 PM
| No. I am presenting my criticism, and "learning" is incomplete without criticism. If my criticism is invalid, the readers are intelligent enough to judge that. |
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usmani790
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, March 2, 2007 - 5:18 PM
Quote:-So you admit that it is bad and you want the participants to learn it. What for?
Oh my God where and when did I say this? |
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usmani790
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, March 2, 2007 - 5:27 PM
Dear Salman
You must have seen some thing good in Tasawwuf as well, I am sure.Please say some thing good about it.I needed yours little support on it.
Regards, |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Saturday, March 3, 2007 - 1:12 AM
quote:
Quote:-So you admit that it is bad and you want the participants to learn it. What for?
Oh my God where and when did I say this?
Please read your previous post where you have said:
quote:
usmani790 PAKISTAN Posted - Friday, March 02, 2007-11:58 AM .......rather make it some more bad in the eyes of the partcipants.
How can you use the term more bad but for something you consider to be bad? |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Saturday, March 3, 2007 - 1:22 AM
quote:
Dear Salman
You must have seen some thing good in Tasawwuf as well, I am sure.Please say some thing good about it.I needed yours little support on it.
Regards,
Even if you see something good in it you should not give preference to it over that which is ordained in the Qur'an and Sunnah |
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usmani790
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, March 3, 2007 - 3:36 AM
Quote:-How can you use the term more bad but for something you consider to be bad?
I said to brother Salman "in the eyes of participants" not in my eyes.When I say participants so I means you and others friends here and not my own self.I hope it will be clear to you now. |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Saturday, March 3, 2007 - 10:55 AM
quote:
Quote:-How can you use the term more bad but for something you consider to be bad?
I said to brother Salman "in the eyes of participants" not in my eyes.When I say participants so I means you and others friends here and not my own self.I hope it will be clear to you now.
No compulsion. What do you say about this Sufi? Do you consider these Sufi thoughts to be anywhere near Isalm?
quote:
In 1923, Sufi Inayat Khan developed a multi-faith worship service that acknowledges and pays homage to the expressions of divine truth as they are revealed through all religions. This inspiring service, called the Universal Worship, honors the “unity of religious ideals,” and is celebrated on various occasions in both a formal ritual version as well as in a more informal style. The Universal Worship provides a powerful symbolic enactment of inter-religious unity and mutual gratitude in a world fractured by divisions and suspicion.
In the same peacemaking spirit of bearing witness to the unity of religious ideals, members of the Sufi Way seek to express inter-religious respect by visiting, praying, learning, and making friends in all places of worship of all faiths, wherever we are welcome.
http://www.sufiway.org/universal_worship.php
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salmant
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Monday, March 5, 2007 - 7:26 AM
Quote: You must have seen some thing good in Tasawwuf as well, I am sure.Please say some thing good about it.I needed yours little support on it.
Reply: Thank you for considering me worthy of supporting you. Ofcourse there is a lot of good in Tasawwuf, but same can be be said about almost any religion of the world. Be it Christianity, Judaism or Hinduism etc. I am not rejecting the possibility that Tasawwuf can have good things in it, what I am arguing here is the issue that it has been considered synonymous to Islam, while it is not. It might be close to Islam, as the scholars promoting it (such as Imam Ghazali etc.) were also scholars of Islam as well, but the fact remains that it runs parallel to Islam. If we dont go into the details of the differences, one basic problem is regarding the certitude of inspiration, as discussed above. There are other problems as well with it.
So "learning" about Tasawwuf should not be an onslaught of 'good things' on the readers. Instead they should also be educated about the criticism that is written on it. Whoever claims that criticism to be invalid, should come forward to refute it. Having done your best at it, one should leave it to the audience/readers to decide what they think about the subject.
Regards,
Salman |
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usmani790
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Monday, March 5, 2007 - 11:34 AM
Dear Salman
Thank you very much for your support I appreciate it.Tasawwuf may be running in parallel but only for the people who don’t wish study the religion seriously and they stuck in some stories of people who have broken the limits of Shariah some where.You named the top twenty scholars in Pakistan the majority will recognize the Tasawwuf.
As said by Maulana Maudoodi sahib Fiqa deal with the visible deeds.This is only sees that what are the orders given to you,have you followed them or not. If you followed then fiqa does not see how yours heart felt about them.The thing which talk about your heart,is called Tasawwuf.
He further said while explaining the Tasawwuf, thing which called Tazkia and Hikmat in Quran and in ahadith its given the name of Ahsan and letter on it is become famous with the name of Tasawwuf.
Maudoodi sahib further explained it through example that if you see some one ,you sees him with two angles.First one is that,is he healthy or not,he is not handicap,he is good looking or not,hows his dressing.The secondly angle is that how’s he behave with others,how’s his habits are,How his mental level is,he is educated or not,is he a good person or bed.First angle is like fiqa and the second angle is like Tasawwuf.When you wish to have a friend ship with some one,you wish to see him with both angles.You will desire that he should be ok with both ways.
Similerly the better life in Islam is that, his visible actions must be as per sharia’s law and his inner face also must be good.If some one’s visible actions are in accordance with the Shariah but the inner face is without the soul of obedience,so his example is like a man with beautiful appearance but he is dead.On the other hand the person whose deeds are with the obedience of inner soul but his visible actions are not accordingly so he is like very gentleman and pious person but bad looking and handicap.
Regards, |
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salmant
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Tuesday, March 6, 2007 - 12:53 PM
(16:68) And behold ! .Your Lord has inspired the bee *56 with this "Build thy hive in the mountains, trees and in the creepers over trellises:
Maulana Maududi writes, please pay special attention to the words highlighted as yellow, as this is precisely what I wanted to convey:
*56 The lexical meaning of the Arabic word ('wahi ) is secret inspiration which is felt only by the one who inspires and the other who is inspired with. The Qur'an has used this word both for the instinctive inspiration by Allah to His creation in general and for the Revelation towards His Prophets in particular. Allah sends His "wahi " to the heavens with His Command and they begin functioning in accordance with it (XL: 12). He will send this to the Earth with His Command and it will relate the story of aII that had happened on and in it. (XCIX: 4-S). He sends wahi to the bee and inspires it with faculties to perform the whole of its wonderful work instinctively (v. 68). The same is true of the bird that learns to fly, the fish that learns to swim, the newly born child that learns to suck milk, etc., etc. Then, it is also wahi with which Allah inspires a human being with a spontaneous idea (XXVIII: 7). The same is the case with all the great discoveries, inventions, works of literature and art, etc. , which would not have been possible without the benefit of wahi. As a matter of fact, every human being at one time or the other feels its mental or spiritual influence in the form of an idea or thought or plan or dream, which is confirmed by a subsequent experience to be the right guidance from the unseen wahi.
Then there is the wahi (Revelation) which is the privilege of the Prophets. This form of wahi has its own special features and is quite distinct from all' its other forms. The Prophet, who is inspired with it, is fully conscious and has his firm conviction that it is being sent down from Allah. Such a Revelation contains doctrines of creed, commandments, laws, regulations and instructions for the guidance of mankind. |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Tuesday, March 6, 2007 - 4:21 PM
salmant PAKISTAN Posted - Tuesday, March 06, 2007 - 12:53 PM
quote:
...... every human being at one time or the other feels its mental or spiritual influence in the form of an idea or thought or plan or dream, which is confirmed by a subsequent experience to be the right guidance.............
This can happen only in worldly matters and not for doctrines of creed, commandments, laws, regulations and instructions for the guidance of mankind.
This because Deen has been completed and all the doctrines of creed, commandments, laws, regulations and instructions for the guidance of mankind have been delivered in full by the Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi Wasallam.
No Aalim, Mufti or Sufi can claim to receive such guidance in matters of deen. |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Wednesday, March 7, 2007 - 3:13 AM
quote:
salmant PAKISTAN Posted - Tuesday, March 06, 2007 - 12:53 PM ........
(16:68) And behold ! .Your Lord has inspired the bee *56 with this "Build thy hive in the mountains, trees and in the creepers over trellises:
Before we continue to read your quote on maudoodi, let us see the verse and its meaning as translated by by other scholars. An-Nahl (The Bee) 16:68
وَأَوْحَى رَبُّكَ إِلَى النَّحْلِ أَنِ اتَّخِذِي مِنَ الْجِبَالِ بُيُوتًا وَمِنَ الشَّجَرِ وَمِمَّا يَعْرِشُونَ
(16:68)
Translation of the meaning of the above verse:
English / Yusuf Ali
16:68 And thy Lord taught the Bee to build its cells in hills, on trees, and in (men's) habitations
Note:
Auha: wahyun ordinarily means inspiration, the message put into the mind or heart by Allah. Here the bee’s instinct is refered to Allah’s teaching, which undoubtedly it is. In xcix. 5, it is applied to the earth….Yusuf Ali
English / Muhammad Asad
16:68 And [consider how] thy Sustainer has inspired the bee: "Prepare for thyself dwellings in mountains and in trees, and in what [men] may build [for thee by way of hives];
Note :
The expression "He has inspired" (awha) is meant to bring out the wonderful quality of the instinct which enables the lowly insect to construct the geometrical masterpiece of a honeycomb out of perfectly-proportioned hexagonal, prismatic wax cells - a structure which is most economical, and therefore most rational, as regards space and material. Together with the subsequently mentioned transmutation, in the bee's body, of plant juices into honey, this provides a striking evidence of "God's ways" manifested in all nature.(Quran Ref: 16:68 ) http://www.islamicity.com/quranSearch
English / M. Picktall
16:68 And thy Lord inspired the bee, saying: Choose thou habitations in the hills and in the trees and in that which they thatch
quote:
Maulana Maududi writes,........ Allah sends His "wahi " to the heavens with His Command and they begin functioning in accordance with it (XL: 12).
There is no mention of "wahi" in this verse?
فَالْحُكْمُ لِلَّهِ الْعَلِيِّ الْكَبِيرِ
(40:12)
English / Muhammad Asad
40:12 [And they will be told:] “This [has befallen you] because, whenever the One God was invoked, you denied this truth; whereas, when divinity was ascribed to aught beside Him, you believed [in it]! But all judgment rests with God, the Exalted, the Great!"
English / Yusuf Ali
40:12 (The answer will be:) "This is because, when Allah was invoked as the Only (object of worship), ye did reject Faith, but when partners were joined to Him, ye believed! the Command is with Allah, Most High, Most Great!"
English / M. Picktall
40:12 (It is said unto them): This is (your plight) because, when Allah only was invoked, ye disbelieved, but when some partner was ascribed to Him ye were believing. But the command belongeth only to Allah, the Sublime, the Majestic.
quote:
He will send this to the Earth with His Command and it will relate the story of aII that had happened on and in it. (XCIX: 4-S).
Az-Zalzalah (The Earthquake)
99:2 And the earth throws up her burdens (from within),
99:3 And man cries (distressed): 'What is the matter with her?'
99:4 On that Day will she declare her tidings
99:5 For that thy Lord will have given her inspiration.
Note:
1. I.e., on the Day of Judgment the earth will bear witness, as it were, to all that has ever been done by man: an explanation given by the Prophet, according to a Tradition on the authority of Abu Hurayrah (quoted by Ibn Hanbal and Tirmidhi).(Quran Ref: 99:5 ) http://www.islamicity.com/quranSearch
2. The inspiration is the command or direction conveyed by instruction breathed into the Earth personified: She is directed to tell the whole story of what she knows. Yusuf Ali.
quote:
Then, it is also wahi with which Allah inspires a human being with a spontaneous idea (XXVIII: 7).
Al-Qasas (The Narration)
وَأَوْحَيْنَا إِلَى أُمِّ مُوسَى أَنْ أَرْضِعِيهِ فَإِذَا خِفْتِ عَلَيْهِ فَأَلْقِيهِ فِي الْيَمِّ وَلَا تَخَافِي وَلَا تَحْزَنِي إِنَّا رَادُّوهُ إِلَيْكِ وَجَاعِلُوهُ مِنَ الْمُرْسَلِينَ
(28:7)
English / Muhammad Asad
28:7 And so, [when he was born,] We inspired [thus] the mother of Moses: Suckle him [for a time], and then, when thou hast cause to fear for him, cast him into the river, and have no fear and do not grieve - for We shall restore him to thee, and shall make him one of Our message-bearers!”
Please note that this Wahi was to the mother of Moses who was to be a messenger of Allah, and that this was much before the Deen was completed by Allah. There can be no such wahi now because the deen has been completed. |
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