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aboosait
INDIA
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 Posted - Saturday, March 10, 2007 - 6:25 AM 
quote:
There is lots of verses of Quran and sayings of Prophet(pbuh) already there in this forum.
Then why dont you take the solution to your mutual dispute from it rather than spamming the pages with unnecessary arguments. |
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salmant
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, March 10, 2007 - 7:06 AM
Quote: Speaking what is good is better than silence and silence is better than talking evil." (Reported by al-Bayhaqi)
Reply: So the assumption behind quoting this hadith is, that all of us except Mr. Usmani, are talking evil?
I think the question is valid that when Quran is providing a concept of Tawheed, why is it necessary to go beyond that Quranic description of Tawheed? if the Quranic concept is being explained in Maulana's statement then please elaborate as to how the Quranic concept of Tawheed leads to this concept
"Therefore, wahdat al-wujood means that Allah is one in His existence as He is one in His 'zaat' (self/identity). It is a much deeper notion of 'tawheed' (oneness of Allah)."
If it is something additional to the Quranic concept, then its source has to be mentioned and justified. |
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usmani790
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, March 10, 2007 - 10:28 AM
Quote:-Reply: So the assumption behind quoting this hadith is, that all of us except Mr. Usmani, are talking evil?
Not at all,Who is how mush pious only God know.My intention by quoting this hadith is that we need be a bit carefull before using some bad words or blaming some one for any thing.Brother Abusait is not very carefull in these things.
As far as wahdat al-wujood is, so far what I understood that it is not a product of Tsawwuf.I have heart about it and knows a very little about it.Since its comes in the discussion I don't mind to learn it a bit more deeply through sharing knowledge here. |
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raushan
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
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Posted - Saturday, March 10, 2007 - 12:53 PM
quote:
Can anyone shed light on the concept of Wahdat-ul-Wajood which forms in my opinion forms the basis of tasawaff.
Philosophy always gives us more questions than answers.
We know from Quran:
40:68 It is He Who gives Life and Death; and when He decides upon an affair, He says to it, "Be", and it is.
36:82 Verily, when He intends a thing, His Command is, "be", and it is!
16:40 For to anything which We have willed, We but say the word, "Be", and it is.
2:117 To Him is due the primal origin of the heavens and the earth: When He decreeth a matter, He saith to it: "Be," and it is.
It may be taken as a finding here that Allah creates things from "nothing".His" intention/will/decision and "say"are all that requires to bring anything into "existence'.
So we can say that the Islamic idea about the creation is that the Creator of an object is not at the same time be a part of it.Here we find the foundation of uncompromising monothism.Means the Creator and His creations are two different things.
Attributes of the Creator like anger and mercy can also be the attributes of creations but that only suggest the related meaning to human intellect.Since God is infinite(awwal and akhir)and so His attributes are.And since man has its limitations in all known capabilities,we just cant say what exactly would be the meaning of ''most merciful"as we can only imagine limited mercy and not "the Infinite mercy".
Everything is part(ansh) of creator is purely Hinduism ideology.that gives the reason to worship everything ranging from snakes to river or sun etc .
plz keep me right through your comments. |
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ibrahim
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Monday, March 12, 2007 - 11:40 AM
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hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
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 Posted - Monday, March 12, 2007 - 1:42 PM
thnx salamnt for the report about the site.(because you are in pak you can get the info directly from our office in lahore-institute of islamic sciences almawrid-javaid ghamidi's lec on tasawwuf has been published already) did you try al-mawrid.org for the text. also check out www.understanding-islam.org and www.monthly-renaissance.com.
there has been some tech work going on at tv-almawrid--launched recently; therefore you may not be able to listen to all the lectures all the time. we are hoping it should be audible round the clock soon insh'Allah( we are thankful to our voluntary working colleagues who are endeavouring to bring such valuable data into the media;without any support from the state ot other organisatioons and we ought to extend our helping hands in time and money for all such efforts--to make them more efficient. plz visit our 'support us' page.)
it's a shame that millions and billions of $ are being spent for the spread of evil  through the media but the help to good is always lagging behind  |
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hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
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 Posted - Monday, March 12, 2007 - 1:50 PM
even if a minority of sufis believe in the concept of grasping physial presence of God, the basic idea in tasawwuf remains the noorani/enlightened association with god which they teach can be achieved by for example reciting His names millions of times, standing on one leg by the seaside and reciting some dhikr, chillas of various types;
hence all sorts of dramas to waste time and moving away from the practical methods of achieveing God's pleasure ; the methods and way of living as taught by all the prophets of the past and as finalized by the last prophet Muhammad sws/pbuh along with the final revelation Qur'an.
every other method besides this is just trying to get away from the practicalities and difficulties which one has to face when truying to live a life of tolerance, giving and forgiveness as taught by Him and His Messengers; whilst living very much amongst the people around instead of running away and breaking up from them. this is a difficult task but for the ones who truely believe in Him and Hereafter. |
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raushan
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
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Posted - Monday, March 12, 2007 - 2:35 PM
quote:
well have anyone seen an article related to tasawwuf on the Following:
http://www.ahya.org/amm/modules.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=69
Plz Comment on it. thanks
The article is full of selective text and comments.
This doesnt work,I suppose.One can neither prove nor convince anything this way.This can be only good for telling''look they too said so''.
what you ll do when the tasauwuf people start quoting their own of "buzurgs"in response to this.
Then mine is better than yours will start. |
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raushan
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
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Posted - Monday, March 12, 2007 - 2:39 PM
monism and monotheism
************************
The major religions of the world can be divided into two broad categories—the Aryan and the Semitic, with Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism in the first and Judaism, Christianity and Islam in the second. So far as their theological aspects are concerned, there is a difference between these two kinds of religions. While the Aryan religions are basically philosophy based, the Semitic religions are revelation based. The former represent the culmination of the philosophical pursuit of truth by the great minds of the world. In the quest for reality, meditation and contemplation brought these saintly souls to the conclusions which gave rise to the principal, organized religions of the eastern hemisphere.
The creeds of the Semitic religions on the other hand, are based on divine revelation. That is, God chose a series of Semites to be His apostles and then imparted to them His commandments, frequently in the form of Scriptures, through His angels. These messengers were not only the bearers of divine scriptures but also their interpreters. It was these revelations and their divinely inspired interpretations which provided the fundamentals of the Semitic religions as they exist today.The basic difference in respect of beliefs of the Aryan and Semitic religions can be briefly described in terms of monism and monotheism respectively.
Although both traditions—monism and monotheism—have the idea of God in common, there are fundamental differences in their conceptualization of God. In the Aryan tradition, God is an all-pervasive force rather than an independent reality. Monism posits the totality of a single reality, with all the diverse phenomena of the natural world seen as different manifestations of the same reality, according to this concept, therefore, there is no real difference between the creator and the creature. Thus in monistic theorizing, the concept of an individual, personal God does not exist.
In Semitic religions, particularly in Islam, the concept of God is entirely based on monotheism. This concept can also be termed dualism, that is, the Creator and the creature, in their nature are completely different from one another. God has a real and eternal existence. As the Creator of all things, he is distinct as an entity from all that He has created. His creatures in their seemingly independent existence totally depend upon the will of God. The sole possessor of all power, God has created man to live for a specific period of time, during which he is sent into the world to be tested. It is this concept of the Creator as totally distinct from creature, which sets the Semitic religions apart from the Aryan. |
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raushan
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
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Posted - Monday, March 12, 2007 - 2:47 PM
continue from above:
The philosophy of Islam is explicitly that of monotheism. It is true that the Sufi system has, to a great extent, incorporated monistic concepts. This is in actual fact, a deviation from the original and real Islam. It is therefore held by the majority of Islamic scholars to be an incorrect interpretation, not truly representative of Islam.Other presentations of Islam also figure in the books produced in the later period of Islam. But all of these, based as they are on personal interpretations, do not have the status of sacred books. In Islam, it is only the Qur’an and Sunnah (the Prophet’s words and deeds) which enjoy the status of the only authentic sources, and it is to them that we must turn if we are to have a true appreciation of the essence of Islam.
The mainstay of Islam is its monotheism—tawhid—that is, belief in the oneness of God in the complete sense of the word. God is One. He has no partner. He created all things and has complete control over the universe. We should serve Him and submit to Him alone. In Him should we repose our hopes and to Him should we pray. Though He cannot be seen, He is so close to us that He hears and answers us when we call upon Him.
The distinctive aspect of this monotheism is that no intermediary link exists between the Creator and the creature. By remembering Him, any individual at any point in time may, quite independently, establish contact with God. There is no need for any go-between. Indeed belief in an intermediary link with God is alien to the Islamic religious system. Called shirk (associating others with God) it is deemed to be an unpardonable offence.
According to the Qur’an God in Islam is not a symbol, but a reality. God has not been conceived of as a kind of working hypothesis on which to found a religious system. On the contrary, God in Islam is a Personality. He has a real and independent existence. He is alive and self-sustaining, self-perpetuating. He is near us; He cares for us; He hears and sees. He has knowledge. He takes decisions. He rewards and punishes. He is the Controller and Sustainer of human history.
(full text -:The Religion of Islam) |
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imran776
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Tuesday, March 13, 2007 - 2:12 PM
AOA,
Brother Salmant
I will very soon give my opinions on 'certitude of inspiration'. Sorry about the dealy coz stuck currently in few personal issues.
Brother Usmani,
Thanks for the definition of Wahdat-al-wajood. Now what I need is the evidence of this in the light of Quran. I know that verses have been posted on this forum before but couldn't relate to this concept of wahdat-al-wajood. need your help.
W/salaam
Imran |
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usmani790
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Wednesday, March 14, 2007 - 7:44 AM
Brother Imran,
Following is a reflection of a brother on "Wahdat-ul-Wujud.I hope it might help us to understand it better.
I completely believe in "Wahdat-ul-Wujud" and also "Wahdat-ul-Shuhud".
It is not something I believed just by reading books or listening to scholars. It is something that my heart was opened to it by Allah. And, I consider it the highest level of "Tawheed"
Also, I believe that this "tawheed" is the tawheed of Prophets and Awaliya'. However, since Islam and Quran addresses all level of "mind-capacities" and "personal acceptance", people who don't reach to the level of realizing that Allah is his creation, too, are also on the right track. This is Allah's mercy. At the end, he gave everything its creation. So, every person has special creation given to him by Allah guarded by unique Divine Name (The Lord) which gives him the knowledge Allah gave him since pre-existance.
the term "Wahdat-ul-Wujud" was coined later in Islamic history, but that doesn't mean that the Prophet (saaws) didn't have it. He had it as well as some of the companions, like AbuBak, Ali. AbuBakr once said: "Whenever I looked at something, I see Allah behind it". He is refering to that the reality behind the images sensed in this world is Allah and that the images are manifestation of his reality. However, we cannot comprehend that reality.
Also, "wahdat-ul-wujud" is the at the deeper meaning of Allah's Divine Name "Al-Ahad", that is, it is completely different than the Name "Al-Wahid"
Among the ancient scholars who had "ma'rifa" of Allah (and believed in wahdat-ul-wujud) are Al-Junaid, Abu Yazeed Al-Bistami, Al-Hallaj. Then, came Abdul-Qadir Al-Jilaani, then, Ibn Arabi, and many others.
Also, one cannot attain the belief in "wahdat-ul-wujud" just by reading books or listing to shyoukh. It is a gift from Allah put into one's inner sight. To reach to that level, one has to understand deeply different Islamic issues, like (1) "Al-Qadar" (Pre-destination) to a very deep level, (2) the secrets of "Kun Fa Yakoun" (BE and It is), (3) the deeper meaning of "creation", and many others.
People who believe in "Wahdat-ul-Wujud" are no longer see "cause-and-effect", "reasons",..etc. They perceive eveything as 'KUN' even their talks. They are no longer with the "creation", they are with Allah. That's why "Wahdat-ul-Wujud" remains absurb and mind-boggling to normal people or people who cannot perceive things beyond their appearance level.
And for those who restrict the meaning of Quranic verses to one meaning, they are striping the Quran from its endless oceans of knowledge. One verse (even one word or one letter) has different meanings on different layers. They are all true and consistent on that layer. Each one gets into the level of understanding according to his creation. This is Allah's mercy and wisdom.
so, no one can restrict a Quranic verse to one meaning and force others to believe in that meaning. |
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raushan
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
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Posted - Wednesday, March 14, 2007 - 10:15 AM
quote:
I completely believe in "Wahdat-ul-Wujud" and also "Wahdat-ul-Shuhud".
It is not something I believed just by reading books or listening to scholars. It is something that my heart was opened to it by Allah. And, I consider it the highest level of "Tawheed".
brother usmani,I will really appreciate if you breifly difine "Wahdat-ul-Wujud" and "Wahdat-ul-Shuhud".
2.
we have discussed so far on the belief or thoughts of sufism.It would be better if we discuss their works (not literary)done for the dawat of Islam.we may discuss this under the heading of their "way" of preaching.I think it would be less controversial . |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Wednesday, March 14, 2007 - 5:45 PM
quote:
...brother usmani,I will really appreciate if you breifly difine "Wahdat-ul-Wujud" and "Wahdat-ul-Shuhud".
Assalmualaikum.
By the time brother Usmani posts his reply let us examine the following statement made by him and see if he has been really been'inspired' by Allah (by opening his heart) as he calims or that the shaitan has succeeded in fishing him into his net!
Usmani's statement:
quote:
I completely believe in "Wahdat-ul-Wujud" and also "Wahdat-ul-Shuhud".
It is something that my heart was opened to it by Allah. And, I consider it the highest level of "Tawheed".
WAHDAT-UL-WUJUD (ONENESS OF BEING)
Excerpts from http://muslim-canada.org/Islamic_Mysticism.html
Time and again the Sufis of Islam and other mystics have been warning mankind that the universe is not real. It is not what it appears to be. It is a phantom. It is a shadow of reality believed to be real by those fettered by the chains of matter-time-space limitations like the inmates of Plato's Cave of Illusion.......
......The Sufis of Islam believe in the oneness of Being. And by being they mean God's Being. They maintain that everything is in God. Even space and the whole universe is included in God's Being (Wujud)....
......according to the cult of Wahdat-ul-Wujud (oneness of being), God's Being penetrates everything in the universe including space.......
Your comments please |
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usmani790
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Wednesday, March 14, 2007 - 8:28 PM
Quote:-By the time brother Usmani posts his reply let us examine the following statement made by him and see if he has been really been'inspired' by Allah (by opening his heart) as he calims or that the shaitan has succeeded in fishing him into his net!
Usmani's statement:
I completely believe in "Wahdat-ul-Wujud" and also "Wahdat-ul-Shuhud".
It is something that my heart was opened to it by Allah. And, I consider it the highest level of "Tawheed".
Reply:-You know Abusait why can't you undertsand things because you never ponder on them.
You put my name on above quote,which I never said.How to believe in what ever funny things coming from you? |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Thursday, March 15, 2007 - 1:40 AM
quote:
Quote:-By the time brother Usmani posts his reply let us examine the following statement made by him and see if he has been really been'inspired' by Allah (by opening his heart) as he calims or that the shaitan has succeeded in fishing him into his net!
Usmani's statement:
I completely believe in "Wahdat-ul-Wujud" and also "Wahdat-ul-Shuhud".
It is something that my heart was opened to it by Allah. And, I consider it the highest level of "Tawheed".
Reply:-You know Abusait why can't you undertsand things because you never ponder on them.
You put my name on above quote,which I never said.How to believe in what ever funny things coming from you?
I copied your quote from this:
usmani790
PAKISTAN Posted - Wednesday, March 14, 2007 - 7:44 AM |
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