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sksamsherali
INDIA
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 Posted - Friday, July 14, 2006 - 12:59 PM 
Dear Tilawat,
All throughout the Quran God commands us to stay away from stone and alters, yet during the visit to the Ka’bah, and at one of its corners, Muslims from all over the world push and shove their way ferociously to get to what is called ‘the black stone’ in order to touch it and kiss it, believing that the stone has the power to heal them, save them or bless them!!! If this is not idolatry I do not know what is!! Not surprisingly, this ritual has no sustenance in the Quran whatsoever, but originates instead from a corrupt ‘hadith’ stating that this stone was descended from heaven since the time of Abraham, that it is thus sacred, and that the prophet used to kiss it!! One is left wondering ‘have they not read the Quran!!?’ The Quran informs us that Abraham destroyed all the stone that his people were worshipping and said:
"Do you then worship beside God what possesses no power to benefit you or harm you?" 21:66
How could anyone in their proper sense of mind accept a dubious saying that is in total violation of the Quran! How could anyone believe that the prophet could ever kiss and idolize a stone that has no power to "benefit" or "harm"anybody?
Needless to say, there is no mention whatsoever in the Quran about a blessed stone that has descended from heaven !!
It is a sad sight today at the Ka'bah to see hundreds of people adhering their bodies to the walls of the Ka’bah, thinking that the walls of the Ka’bah will bless them! The scenes at the location of the ‘black stone’ are abhorrent. In front of the ‘black stone’ there is a line drawn on the ground. This line is intended as a marker from which people could keep count of each lap they have completed, however it is indeed a truly sad sight to see the people raising their hands in awe in the direction of the ‘black stone’ every time they passed the line! Some were even praying on the line itself in total awe of the ‘black stone’!! Once again, have they not read the Quran?!!
"Say ‘Would you worship besides God what can neither harm you, nor benefit you?" 5:76 also see 10:18 and 25:55.
samsher
quote:
Dear Samser
I reread para 4 of your article of 7/7/06. It says "In the world today there are those who still worship such objects as statues, the sun, fire, or even certain animals. All these groups are promised great punishment in the Hereafter."
Do you mean this also includes the 'Black Stone' placed in Kaabah which is the only object which is worshipped by the Muslims as a ritual?
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Minara
INDIA
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Posted - Friday, July 14, 2006 - 1:01 PM
Dear Tilawat,
O.K., My name is MINARA BIBI.
minara |
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oosman
USA
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Posted - Friday, July 14, 2006 - 2:10 PM
quote:
Muslims from all over the world push and shove their way ferociously to get to what is called ‘the black stone’ in order to touch it and kiss it, believing that the stone has the power to heal them, save them or bless them!!!
As far as I understand, Muslims do not kiss the black stone thinking its ha magical healing powers. Perhpas some do that, but that is shirk. Majority of Muslims do it as a passage of ritual. As Allah mentions in the holy Quran there is no harm in following the rituals of the Hajj.
2.158 o! (the mountains) As-Safa and Al-Marwah are among the indications of Allah. It is therefore no sin for him who is on pilgrimage to the House (of Allah) or visiteth it, to go around them (as the pagan custom is). And he who doeth good of his own accord, (for him) lo! Allah is Responsive, Aware. |
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tilawat
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 12:55 AM
quote:
Dear Tilawat,
All throughout the Quran God commands us to stay away from stone and alters, yet during the visit to the Ka’bah, and at one of its corners, Muslims from all over the world push and shove their way ferociously to get to what is called ‘the black stone’ in order to touch it and kiss it, believing that the stone has the power to heal them, save them or bless them!!! If this is not idolatry I do not know what is!! Not surprisingly, this ritual has no sustenance in the Quran whatsoever, but originates instead from a corrupt ‘hadith’ stating that this stone was descended from heaven since the time of Abraham, that it is thus sacred, and that the prophet used to kiss it!! One is left wondering ‘have they not read the Quran!!?’ The Quran informs us that Abraham destroyed all the stone that his people were worshipping and said:
"Do you then worship beside God what possesses no power to benefit you or harm you?" 21:66
How could anyone in their proper sense of mind accept a dubious saying that is in total violation of the Quran! How could anyone believe that the prophet could ever kiss and idolize a stone that has no power to "benefit" or "harm"anybody?
Needless to say, there is no mention whatsoever in the Quran about a blessed stone that has descended from heaven !!
It is a sad sight today at the Ka'bah to see hundreds of people adhering their bodies to the walls of the Ka’bah, thinking that the walls of the Ka’bah will bless them! The scenes at the location of the ‘black stone’ are abhorrent. In front of the ‘black stone’ there is a line drawn on the ground. This line is intended as a marker from which people could keep count of each lap they have completed, however it is indeed a truly sad sight to see the people raising their hands in awe in the direction of the ‘black stone’ every time they passed the line! Some were even praying on the line itself in total awe of the ‘black stone’!! Once again, have they not read the Quran?!!
"Say ‘Would you worship besides God what can neither harm you, nor benefit you?" 5:76 also see 10:18 and 25:55.
samsher
Thank you dear Samsher. So it is despite the fact that according to the very tradition which is stated to be the main basis of this ritual Hazrat Umar Farooq once kissed the black stone with abhorrence (abaahat) saying that it was just a stone with no heavenly attributes whatsoever and he kissed it only because he had seen the Prophet (PBUH)kissing it. But there is a Hadees also that this stone is the right hand of God. Is it not Shirk worse than Hindoo's stone worshipping as they take the stones only as symbols without ascribing any heavenly attributes to them (See Bollywood film Naastik). History states that the Yamanies (Muslims, of course) once took away this stone and fixed it in a latrine (Perhaps to show abhorrence to the 'Shirk' of worshipping it).
But the man is by nature a 'Stone worshipper' by whatever label he is called. They kill humans, the progeny of Aadam, mercilessly by calling them 'kafirs' when God says that He lives in the heart of every human but worship stones and say "Is mein harj hi kia he".
Oh God, "He darveshi bhi ayyaari, sultani bhi ayyari". Yih Deen Dharam, yih Ishq-o-muhabbat sub Maaya he? "Wa mal Hayyatudunya illa mataaul gharoor" says the Quran e Hakeem and asks us again and again, "Why don't you think?".
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tilawat
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, July 15, 2006 - 1:23 AM
quote:
Dear Tilawat,
O.K., My name is MINARA BIBI.
minara
Thank you dear MINARA BIBI! Now I can understand you better. |
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Minara
INDIA
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Posted - Monday, July 17, 2006 - 10:14 AM
Salam,
Brother You are wrong. I am giving you the reference of six translations of verse 5:6 which will say you that your imagination is wrong. Please see;
Khan:- “O you who believe! When you intend to offer As- Salat (the prayer), wash your faces and your hands (forearms) up to the elbows, rub (by passing wet hands over) your heads, and (wash) your feet up to ankles…..”
Maulana: “O you who believe, when you rise up for prayer, wash your
faces, and your hands up to the elbows, and wipe your heads, and (wash)
your feet up to the ankles…..”
Pickthal: “O ye who believe! When ye rise up for prayer, wash you faces,
and your hands up to the elbows, and lightly rub your heads and (wash) your
feet up to the ankles……”
Rashad: “O you who believe, when you observe the Contact Prayers (Salat), you shall: (1) wash your faces, (2) wash your arms to the elbows, (3) wipe your heads, and (4) wash your feet to the ankles….”
Sherali: “O ye who believe ! when you stand up for Prayer, wash your faces, and your hands up to the elbows, and pass your wet hands over your heads and wash your feet to the ankles….”
Yusufali: “O ye who believe! when ye prepare for prayer, wash your faces, and your hands (and arms) to the elbows; Rub your heads (with water); and (wash) your feet to the ankles….”
So brother you should remove your confusion from your mind not me.
Samsher.
quote:
Salamo alaykoum,
Quote of brother Minara: Qur’an mentions only 4(four) steps of ablution, which are as follows;
(5:6) “O you who believe, when you observe the Contact Prayers (Salat), you shall: (1) wash your faces, (2) wash your arms to the elbows, (3) wipe your heads, and (4) wash your feet to the ankles”.
***************************************************
For the ablution (wudhu), if we take ORIGINAL TRANSLATION of the verse (5: 6), it does not seem to be washing but wiping the feet. You can translate yourself the verse that is in front of you as below.
FAGHSOLU (WASH) Wojuhakum (your face) wa-aedeekum (and your hands) ilal-marafiq (upto the elbows), WAMSAHU (AND WIPE) be-rousekum (your heads) wa-arjolakum (and your feet) ilal-kaabain (upto the ankles) (5: 6)
FAGHSOLU (WASH) your face and your hands upto the elbows,
AND
WAMSAHU (AND WIPE) your heads and your feet upto the ankles.
So washing the feet does not seems to be implying but wiping only.
I request you to remove this confusion of my mind.
Regards and Thanks!
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sksamsherali
INDIA
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Posted - Monday, July 17, 2006 - 11:38 AM
Salam,
Quote:- Majority of Muslims do it as a passage of ritual. As Allah mentions in the holy Quran there is no harm in following the rituals of the Hajj.
Reply:- There is no such ritual(kissing the black stone) mentioned in the Nobel Qur'an. Yes, it is harm if we consider this ritual as one of the rituals of Hajj.
Samsher. |
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Minara
INDIA
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Posted - Monday, July 17, 2006 - 11:44 AM
Dear Samsher,
Please excuse me. I mistakenly wrote my name as samsher at the end of my opinion above. I am very sorry for this.
Minara |
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tilawat
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Monday, July 17, 2006 - 11:45 PM
I see there is a mix up in my post also. The following post(15/7) of mine heretofore has been shown as though it is a quote of Samsher Ali's post:-
"Thank you dear Samsher. So it is despite the fact that according to the very tradition which is stated to be the main basis of this ritual Hazrat Umar Farooq once kissed the black stone with abhorrence (abaahat) saying that it was just a stone with no heavenly attributes whatsoever and he kissed it only because he had seen the Prophet (PBUH)kissing it. But there is a Hadees also that this stone is the right hand of God. Is it not Shirk worse than Hindoo's stone worshipping as they take the stones only as symbols without ascribing any heavenly attributes to them (See Bollywood film Naastik). History states that the Yamanies (Muslims, of course) once took away this stone and fixed it in a latrine (Perhaps to show abhorrence to the 'Shirk' of worshipping it).
But the man is by nature a 'Stone worshipper' by whatever label he is called. They kill humans, the progeny of Aadam, mercilessly by calling them 'kafirs' when God says that He lives in the heart of every human but worship stones and say "Is mein harj hi kia he". (Then why didn't they also worship the hundreds of idols placed inside Kaaba instead of breaking them all)
Oh God, "He darveshi bhi ayyaari, sultani bhi ayyari". Yih Deen Dharam, yih Ishq-o-muhabbat sub Maaya he? "Wa mal Hayyatudunya illa mataaul gharoor" says the Quran e Hakeem and asks us again and again, "Why don't you think?".
tilawat
PAKISTAN Posted - Saturday, July 15, |
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usmani790
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 7:39 AM
quote:
Dear Samsher,
Please excuse me. I mistakenly wrote my name as samsher at the end of my opinion above. I am very sorry for this.
Minara
Samsher Finally you did this mistake.
How can some one forget his own name and not even this, wrote some one else name instead?
Never possible.This Samsher is also coming with the name of Minara.Why you are playing games here Samsher,what are yours intentions?Would you like to share with us.We might help you to sought out your problem. |
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sksamsherali
INDIA
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Posted - Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 10:54 AM
Salam,
Ha....ha.....   I did not do any mistake. It is Minara who did mistake by writting my name mistakenly at the end of her opinion. Do you not understand? Are you a man with chicken IQ?What is your problem? If you have any courage to argue(ofcourse logical argument according to Qur'an) with me then you are welcome. Although you have tried earlier to do this with your false logic based on your HISLAM, and failed to prove anything. Any one can see those dialogues held between you and me, displayed under another topic (the Qur'an and the Sunnah) in this fourum. Whatever may be I am giving you here another chance. Please accept it,If you have any courage to accept. Don't try to divert the attention of believers of this forum to other things to prove yourself right by hook or by crook.
Samsher
quote:
quote:
Dear Samsher,
Please excuse me. I mistakenly wrote my name as samsher at the end of my opinion above. I am very sorry for this.
Minara
Samsher Finally you did this mistake.
How can some one forget his own name and not even this, wrote some one else name instead?
Never possible.This Samsher is also coming with the name of Minara.Why you are playing games here Samsher,what are yours intentions?Would you like to share with us.We might help you to sought out your problem.
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usmani790
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Wednesday, July 19, 2006 - 11:58 AM
Dear Samsher
I have done my job brother .I can see from your reply that I have done it with perfection.
You know when God give some one Chicken IQ,so He helped him a lot always.See how I caught you. 
Best Regards |
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Minara
INDIA
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Posted - Thursday, July 20, 2006 - 7:11 AM
Usmani,
What is your probleme brother? why do you tell lie after lie?
Minara
quote:
quote:
Dear Samsher,
Please excuse me. I mistakenly wrote my name as samsher at the end of my opinion above. I am very sorry for this.
Minara
Samsher Finally you did this mistake.
How can some one forget his own name and not even this, wrote some one else name instead?
Never possible.This Samsher is also coming with the name of Minara.Why you are playing games here Samsher,what are yours intentions?Would you like to share with us.We might help you to sought out your problem.
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sksamsherali
INDIA
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Posted - Thursday, July 20, 2006 - 7:52 AM
Dear Usmani790,
Quote:- I have done my job brother. I can see from your reply that I have done it with perfection.
Reply:- What is your job or profession, all the believers of this forum had realized that. It is also realized by the other believer members of this forum from your cowardly reply that ‘you have no courage to accept my challenge, which I offered you through my previous post’.
I know that you have no knowledge about true islam and Qur’an, so you will never be able to accept my challenge. Whatever may be, I am offering through this letter to you another last chance to accept my challenge. If you have any knowledge regarding true islam i.e. Qur’an then accept it, if not then you have no need to this forum and you should leave it immediately.
And one more saying, if you don’t accept my challenge then your further question to me will be discarded. Please remember it.
May GOD Bless all of us.
Samsher. |
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usmani790
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Thursday, July 20, 2006 - 12:52 PM
Dear Samsher
My Quote: - I have done my job brother. I can see from your reply that I have done it with perfection.
Your quote: - What is your job or profession, all the believers of this forum had realized that. It is also realized by the other believer members of this forum from your cowardly reply that ‘you have no courage to accept my challenge, which I offered you through my previous post’.
Reply: - Come I show you some more things here. How come you and Minara post almost on the same timing on many ocasions. Actually one person doing the job for both.Have a look.
Minara post on June 20 10:32 AM Page 8
Samsher post on June 20 11:28 AM
Minara Post on June 22 11:32 AM
Samsher post on June 22 12:46 PM
Minara post on June 22 12:47 PM
Samsher post on June 26 08:58 AM Page 9
Minara post on June 26 10:38 AM
Minara post on June 27 10:41 AM
Samsher post on June 27 11:22 AM
Minara post on July 07 12:20 PM Page 11
Samsher post on July 07 12:31 AM
Samsher post on July 10 01:26 PM Page 12
Minara Post on July 10 01:35 PM
Minara post on July 13 11:19 AM
Samsher post on July 13 12:48 PM
Samsher July 14 12:59 PM Page 13
Minara July 14 01:01 PM
Minara post on July 17 10:11 AM Samsher post on July 17 11:38 AM
Minara post on July 17 11:44 AM
Even caught but not yet learn the lesson carryon like this.
Minara post on July 20 07:11 AM
Samsher post on July 20 07:52 AM
I don’t want to do this job, but to open up your real face I got to do it.
Quote: -And one more saying, if you don’t accept my challenge then your further question to me will be discarded. Please remember it.
Reply:-I have already lots of title from you like idol worshippers, unbelievers, lier so on---. Find some one else for this. I think that’s what you doing here, searching new peoples for that. I won’t be caught by you again. Good luck to you.
Take care and have a nice day
Usmani |
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sksamsherali
INDIA
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Posted - Friday, July 21, 2006 - 9:43 AM
Salam to All,
Dear readers Mr Usmani claimed illogically that my posts and sister Minara’s posts were the same. I don’t want to waste much time to prove him false. I refer here only two posts of mine and sister minara, as example, which Mr. Usmani claimed that these were from the same person. After reading the followings you also can definitely realize how liar mr. usmani is.
Minara’s Post.
Posted - Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 10:32 AM
Wa-alaykum Assalam,
Q:-We are having a dialog and trying to find out the truth. You are being arrogant in assuming you already know the truth. This is not a good method for an open debate.
A:- Brother, I am not arrogant, rather you. Your ego, yes it is your ego, which does not permit you to accept the quranic truth.
Q:- The verses you have quoted about Allah asking the angels to prostrate to Adam and they prostrated except Iblees, they all only prove my point that he was among the ranks of the angels. None of the verses you quoted explicitly say he was an angel.
A:- Alas! You could not yet to understand a simple matter. Almighty Allah here ordered only to the Angels to prostrate before Adam. HE did not order to the Jin & Angels as you think.
“ All the angels prostrated before Adam EXCEPT Iblees”, this simple sentence clearly means that Iblees was also an angel. Let me try to demonstrate the subject;
A class teacher told his students that ‘tomorrow you shall remain present in this classroom at 9 a.m.’. The very next day all the students were remained present in the said classroom EXCEPT ‘ONE’.
Now will it be right to say that the above mentioned ‘ONE’ is not a student? No.
In the same way Almighty God ordered to the Angels to prostrate before Adam and all the angels prostrate before him EXCEPT Iblees.(2:30-34, 7:11, 15:28-31, 17:61, 20:116, 38:71-74). In this case Iblees was also an angel.
After he rebelled to Almighty God, he became the first Jin.
Now you said that Iblees was among the RANKS ?????? of Angels. How could you know that the rank of Iblees was the same as the rank of Angels? Where in the Quran it is said? Can you prove it from the Quran?
Q:- It is the style of the Quran that Iblees is referred to as an angle because he is included in their ranks, but not explicitly called an angel anywhere. Show me where Quran explicitly calls him an angel?
A:- You should read all the verses mentioned above and should use your brain.
7:179 We have committed to Hell multitudes of jinns and humans. They have minds with which they do not understand, eyes with which they do not see, and ears with which they do not hear. They are like animals; no, they are far worse - they are totally unaware.
Q:- [Iblîs (Satan)] said: "I am better than he, You created me from fire, and You created him from clay." 38.76
Iblees was made of fire - angels are not made of fire. Also Iblees had a free will to disobey Allah, angels do not have a free will. Therefore Iblees cannot be called an angel.
A:- Whether Angels were made of fire or not, the above verse does not say this. The above mentioned verse only means that Iblees was made of fire and Adam was created from clay.
How could you know that Angels were not made of fire? Pl. give me reference from the Quran. In this world there are many creatures, which have no free will, does this mean that they are all angels as because they have no free wills!!!
Q:- There are different interpretations of your quoted verses. If you do not agree with my interpretation, it is fine with me. It is also the interpretation of scholars like Ibn-Khathir that Iblees was a jin. Allah will judge which is the correct interpretation -
A:- I never told that Iblees is not a jin, I simply told that before rebelled to Almighty Allah he was amongst the Angels and after rebelled he became a Jin.
Q:- but do not be arrogant by saying you are right and everyone else is wrong. Only Allah knows.
A:- Then do you want to say that your opinion, about the subject under consideration, may be wrong?
Q:- Regarding answering of prayers, I believe that if anyone asks Allah for something (not ask some stone god or idol but ask Allah), then Allah may answer the prayer. There is no criteria that the person has to be a Muslim.
A:- Tell me brother what is the definition of Muslim?
Q:- Allah says:
And your Lord said: "Invoke Me, I will respond to your (invocation). Verily! Those who scorn My worship they will surely enter Hell in humiliation!" 40.60
Allah does not put any preconditions to the invocations, only it is your whim. Allah invites anyone, Muslim or non-muslim, to call on to Him.
A:- Smile. It is not my whims rather yours. firstly please look into the Qur’an for the definition of ‘Muslim’. Secondly, the above verse does not say about Salat(namaz). The above verse says only about Invocation/Imploration. Almighty God says in the above verse that “Invoke me, I will respond you’.
To mean ‘Namaz’, Almighty God only used the Arabic word “Salat” in the Quran and nothing else. Salat should be offered at specific times, but we can implore or invoke to Almighty Allah at any time.
Q:- Regarding late prayers, Allah does not say anywhere he will not accept late prayers. The verse you quoted says prayers should be offered at proper times. It does not say they will be rejected otherwise. Show me where Quran says late prayers will be rejected? It is only your whim.
A:- What a ridiculous!! Why Almighty Allah tells us that late prayers will be rejected? Almighty Allah told us in the Quran that salat should be offered at its specific times. Now think if He also said us that due salat can be offered at any time, then will it not be the contradiction??? Brother there is no contradiction in the Quran(4:82).
I told you again & again that Quran is fully detailed, complete & perfect. Almighty Allah has said whatever he had to say to humanity in its finality,
totality, and completeness in the Quran (6:115, 6:38, 10:37, 5:48). Therefore, our relationship to Allah is only through His book, the Quran and nothing else. Since Quran says us that we must offer our regular salat at SPECIFIED TIME (4:103), so it is our duty to offer our salat at its specific time. Since the Quran is complete and fully detailed and since there is no reference in the Quran about missed prayer, then logically we cannot say that praying due salat is a part of Islam. But brother you can’t understand this simple logic!! Alas!!
As Quran is fully detailed & complete, then you please show me where Quran says that late prayers will be accepted?
Minara.
My Post
Posted - Tuesday, June 20, 2006 - 11:28 AM
Salaam
Qote:-Verse 18:50 clearly says that Iblees was a Jinn.
Reply:- There are two important phrases in 18:50
1- "We said to the angels, "Fall prostrate before Adam." They fell prostrate, except Satan." this phrase confirms that Satan (Iblees) was one of the angels, otherwise
the command to prostrate given to the angels by God would not apply to him.
2- "He became a jinn, for he disobeyed the order of His Lord." the arabic words used here are "Kana min al-jinn" .... the arabic word "Kana" has two different meanings, the first is (WAS) and the second meaning is (BECAME). By simple logic we can find which meaning is intended for the word "kana" in 18:50. If you look at the first phrase again, we are told that Satan was an angel, thus the first meaning of the word "kana" , which is "WAS" cannot be the correct meaning. This is because Satan was an angel, he was not a jinn, this leaves the second meaning of the word "kana" which is "BECAME" ....and this is the correct meaning, since Satan was an angel who rebelled against God so he BECAME a jinn . He was an angel , then BECAME a jinn Iblis was made of fire when God made him a jinn, but before that he was an angel ....... in any case, what angels are made of is not the deciding factor here, the deciding factor is that God tells us that Satan was an angel and then became a jinn.
<<<< Iblees had a free will to disobey Allah, angels do not have a free will>>>>>
Brother where in the Quran does it say that angels do not have a free will?
Salam
Samsher
Now let us see another post of Sister Minara & Mine dated 22nd June, 2006.
Minara’s post.
Posted - Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 11:32 AM
Salam brother Oosman,
Q:- No, rather you show me where it says late prayers will not be accepted. The truth is Allah says he makes religion easy for us, and in light of that I do not see why we should not do late prayers if we miss a prayer - after all Allah is merciful and forgiving. He is more lenient than you.
A:- Alas! What a nonsensical demand!!! Brother why do you not try to understand the meaning of a simple sentence? I told you again & again that Quran called Itself that IT is COMPLETE, PERFECT & FULLY DETAILED (6:38-39, 114-115) and all that we need for our salvation are given totally in the Quran. If Quran is complete and fully detailed and if all that we need for our salvation are given in the Quran then logically we cannot call/label to that information as Islamic, which are not in the Quran and also we do not require that info. for our salvation. Almighty Allah said in the Quran that Salat should be offered at its SPECIFIED times(4:103)? Now think, If God would say that we should offer our missed salat at any time in the day, then would it not be a contradiction because Almighty God says in the Quran that salat should be offered at specific times? Brother, Almighty God’s words are free from all contradictions.(4:82). If offering due salat at any time in the day would require for us then Almighty God would have definitely said this in the Quran and we can easily find it in the Quran since It is Fully Detailed and Complete. It is not logical to think that Almighty Allah said that Quran is fully detailed, perfect and complete and then He forget(may Allah forgive us) to mention about due salat and its timing, remember Salat is one of the pillars of Islam.
As Quran is FULLY DETAILED AND COMPLETE and as IT does not say anything about missed prayer, then we cannot say it is (offering missed prayer) Islamic. This is the TRUTH and this is the LOGIC. But brother you are not ready to accept any truth and logic because I think you are illogical. Your ego does not permit you to accept any logic & truth. It is your misfortune.
Do you know brother Although Almighty Allah is the most merciful yet He does not forgive any kind of SHIRK with Him? What do you understand by saying SHIRK with Him? If we follow anything, any source besides Quran as our religious source, then it will be fallen under the category of SHIRK with Almighty God. Brother, Quran does not say anything about the missed prayer. The idea of offering missed prayer comes from fabricated hadith. So if you follow any religious idea which is not remained present in the Quran and which comes from other source than Quran then you are doing SHIRK with Almighty God and Almighty God will not forgive this sin, even He is most Merciful.
You advised me that I should fear God!! Ha..ha…ha., brother I really fear God and so I never accept anything, any book, any source as my religious guidance BESIDES only QURAN.
Rather you don’t fear God because you accept another source(s) besides Quran as your religious source and in this way you are doing SHIRK with Almighty God. So brother you should FEAR GOD in future.
Q:- Do you admit yours could be incorrect as I have admitted? Or are you going to be headstrong and fundamentalist?
A:- You generally send your whims, rather than Quranic truth. So you have to admit yours fault. But why do I admit when I could not make any fault because I send my opinion only on the basis of Quran and also when you could not yet to prove from the Quran that I am wrong in any matter? You should at first try to prove my fault from the Quran not on the basis of your whims.
Q:- I have read your arguments and it does not sound logical in light of your evidence. If you have anything new to present, then say it. Else there is no point in saying same thing over and over.
A:- I have given my logic in the light of only Quran, but you disliked it because you do not accept only Quran as your religious source. You accept Quran, hadith etc.etc. as your religious sources so you could not satisfy with my logic. You follow another book, in it you can find anything that you want.
(68:36-38) What is wrong with your logic? Do you have another book to uphold? In it, do you find anything you want?
I have already told you All from the Quran regarding the subject according to my knowledge. Now it is your choice whether you can accept it or not, although I know that you do not accept the guidance.
(7:193) When you invite them to the guidance, they do not follow you. Thus, it is the same for them whether you invite them, or remain silent.
(7:198) When you invite them to the guidance, they do not hear. And you see them looking at you, but they do not see.
Minara.
My post.
Posted - Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 12:46 PM
Salam Mr. Nauman,
Quote:- Qur'an does not support this view and it is very clear from the verse.
Reply:- What is clear brother? Do you have eyes to see the clear things from the Quran? Almighty Allah said to the ANGELS (not to the Angels & Jinns) to prostrate before Adam. They(Angels) fell prostrate, except Satan." This phrase confirms that Satan (Iblees) was one of the angels, otherwise the command to prostrate given to the Angels by God would not apply to him. So brother your above saying is completely false. Please see the quote from Minara(2:30-34, 7:11, 15:28-31, 17:61, 20:116, 38:71-74). Brother, you traditionalists never been able to see the clear things from the Quran unless you follow Quran only as your only religious source.
Quote:- No one interpreted the phrase as you did except the Submitters; and no one agrees with them.
Reply:- This is your imagination and is wrong. I interpreted the phrase according to the Quran. If you do not accept this then pl. answer my following question;
“Almighty Allah said to the ANGELS to prostrate before Adam. Now how would it be applicable to Iblees, when he was not an Angel?” As Iblees was an Angel so the command to prostrate given to the angels by God would apply to him and this is simple truth, but you people(traditionalists) could not learn how to accept the simple truth in the Quran.
I don’t care whether followers of Hislam not Islam agree with me or not, because I know that I can’t guide them. Only Almighty Allah can do this and I pray for this.
Samsher.
Minara’s post.
Posted - Thursday, June 22, 2006 - 12:47 PM
Salam Samsher,
What a beautiful reply!! Sabashh!!
Minara.
N.B.- Truth does not differ. If two, three or more persons said the same truth, then this does not mean that they are actually one person not two, three or more!!! Only the man with Chicken IQ like Mr Usmani790 can imagine this way. Also I amazed!!! Why is he here in this forum when he has no knowledge about the true Islam? If he has then he could definitely accept my challenge, which I offered him several times. As he has no courage to accept my challenge, he avoided this and tried to covert the attention of believers of this forum to other way by hook or by crook.
My source of information is Only Nobel Qur’an. I also regularly visit the website www.quran-islam.org, www.submission.org, www.19.org, www.islamicreforms.org, www.free-minds.org and many more websites which generally preach only the Qur’anic message. May be some other members of this forum also visit these websites. So it is possible to some extent that my opinion and their opinion may be same. But this does not mean all are one person. So Mr. Usmain’s claim is totally illogical although it is expected only from him and the persons like him who are illogical.
Samsher |
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