| Author | Topic |
shah_625
PAKISTAN
|
 Posted - Saturday, November 1, 2008 - 3:06 PM 
quote:
quote:
........that only dog is mentioned because in those days, rabies was spreading through dogs only. That is why the holy Prophet said :
The prophet's saying always has a wide spectrum not limited to dogs because Allah is behind sayings of the prophet.
I wonder what your point was in that? (In the context of this topic)
Edited by: shah_625 on Saturday, November 01, 2008 3:08 PM |
|
shah_625
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Tuesday, November 4, 2008 - 12:02 PM
| So anybody got anything on the history & context of dogs at the time of Holy Prophet (PBUH) which can explain the restriction of keeping dogs in house? |
|
hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
|
Posted - Wednesday, November 5, 2008 - 5:58 PM
i think shehzad saleem has explained it's religious aspect sufficiently as ibrahim posted the link
http://www.monthly-renaissance.com/issue/query.aspx?id=669
as for practical matters, day in and day out, here in the west where its a nom to keep dogs as house pet, we keep listening to stories like a neighbour been biten by neighbour's dog, a small baby who was unattended in a pub, eaten up by a customer's dog, a woman's face attacked by a dog later needing full face plastic surgery,etc. the beastly part of dog is something one has to be aware of. most restaurants, shops and public places have bold notice now' No Dogs please except Guide Dogs' etc which is th eresult of such experiences.
hence there seems to be clear wisdom in this stance of the prophet sws.however it does not at all lead to any 'haram' rule of forbiddence. people must use their minds and decide according to the needs and possible harms. dogs can be very useful for blind people for example, helping elderly and disabled people around, guarding houses, for outdoor games with children with their trainers and guides etc. |
|
aboosait
INDIA
|
Posted - Thursday, November 6, 2008 - 1:52 AM
quote:
...........dogs can be very useful for blind people for example, helping elderly and disabled people around, guarding houses, for outdoor games ..............etc.
Jazakallahu khair.
As the subject is "the dog" it would not be out of place if I quote the following verses where dog is mentioned in the Qur'an:
Al-A'raf (The Heights)
وَلَوْ شِئْنَا لَرَفَعْنَاهُ بِهَا وَلَـكِنَّهُ أَخْلَدَ إِلَى الأَرْضِ وَاتَّبَعَ هَوَاهُ فَمَثَلُهُ كَمَثَلِ الْكَلْبِ إِن تَحْمِلْ عَلَيْهِ يَلْهَثْ أَوْ تَتْرُكْهُ يَلْهَث ذَّلِكَ مَثَلُ الْقَوْمِ الَّذِينَ كَذَّبُواْ بِآيَاتِنَا فَاقْصُصِ الْقَصَصَ لَعَلَّهُمْ يَتَفَكَّرُونَ (7:176)
7:176 Now had We so willed, We could indeed have exalted him by means of those [messages]: but he always clung to the earth and followed but his own desires. Thus, his parable is that of an [excited] dog: if thou approach him threateningly, he will pant with his tongue lolling; and. if thou leave him alone, he will pant with his tongue lolling. [142] Such is the parable of those who are bent on giving the lie to Our messages. Tell [them], then, this story, so that they might take thought.
------------------------------------------------------
Al-Kahf (The Cave)
وَتَحْسَبُهُمْ أَيْقَاظًا وَهُمْ رُقُودٌ وَنُقَلِّبُهُمْ ذَاتَ الْيَمِينِ وَذَاتَ الشِّمَالِ وَكَلْبُهُم بَاسِطٌ ذِرَاعَيْهِ بِالْوَصِيدِ لَوِ اطَّلَعْتَ عَلَيْهِمْ لَوَلَّيْتَ مِنْهُمْ فِرَارًا وَلَمُلِئْتَ مِنْهُمْ رُعْبًا (18:18)
18:18 And thou wouldst have thought that they were awake, whereas they lay asleep. And We caused them to turn over repeatedly, now to the right, now to the left; and their dog [lay] on the threshold, its forepaws outstretched. Hadst thou come upon them [unprepared], thou wouldst surely have turned away from them in flight, and wouldst surely have been filled with awe of them. [21]
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Al-Kahf (The Cave)
سَيَقُولُونَ ثَلَاثَةٌ رَّابِعُهُمْ كَلْبُهُمْ وَيَقُولُونَ خَمْسَةٌ سَادِسُهُمْ كَلْبُهُمْ رَجْمًا بِالْغَيْبِ وَيَقُولُونَ سَبْعَةٌ وَثَامِنُهُمْ كَلْبُهُمْ قُل رَّبِّي أَعْلَمُ بِعِدَّتِهِم مَّا يَعْلَمُهُمْ إِلَّا قَلِيلٌ فَلَا تُمَارِ فِيهِمْ إِلَّا مِرَاء ظَاهِرًا وَلَا تَسْتَفْتِ فِيهِم مِّنْهُمْ أَحَدًا (18:22)
18:22 [And in times to come] some will say, [31] "[They were] three, the fourth of them being their dog," while others will say, "Five, with their dog as the sixth of them" -idly guessing at something of which they can have no knowledge -and [so on, until] some will say, "[They were] seven, the eighth of them being their dog." Say: "My Sustainer knows best how many they were. None but a few have any [real] knowledge of them. Hence, do not argue about them otherwise than by way of an obvious argument, [32] and do not ask any of those [story-tellers] to enlighten thee about them."
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Note 142 (Quran Ref: 7:176 )
Because his attitudes are influenced only by what his earth-bound desires represent to him as his immediate "advantages" or "disadvantages", the type of man alluded to in this passage is always - whatever the outward circumstances - a prey to a conflict between his reason and his base urges and, thus, to inner disquiet and imaginary fears. and cannot attain to that peace of mind which a believer achieves through his faith.(Quran Ref: 7:176 )
Note 31 (Quran Ref: 18:22 )
The future tense in sayagulun points once again to the legendary character of the story as such, and implies that all speculation about its details is irrelevant to its parabolic, ethical purport.(Quran Ref: 18:22 )
Note 32 (Quran Ref: 18:22 )
Le., for the sake of the self-evident ethical lesson to be derived from their story: an allusion to the first paragraph of verse 21 above.(Quran Ref: 18:22 )
Edited by: aboosait on Thursday, November 06, 2008 2:02 AM |
|
shah_625
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Thursday, November 6, 2008 - 11:18 AM
After reading the article again my mind is cleared up but there is one thing, the author says "It can be kept for protection as well as for hunting purposes. It can be kept as a pet as well"
But it is mentioned in the Aadith if a dog is kept beside hunting and protection then reward of two qirat will be deducted from that persons good deeds.
Can someone explain this? What did the prophet mean by other than? |
|
aboosait
INDIA
|
Posted - Thursday, November 6, 2008 - 12:15 PM
quote:
........It can be kept as a pet as well.........
please provide proof.
Dont you know that shaitan has lead people to pornography with pet dogs. (Astagfirullah)
Edited by: aboosait on Thursday, November 06, 2008 12:19 PM |
|
shah_625
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Thursday, November 6, 2008 - 12:22 PM
Brother aboosait, thanks for the reply but I'm sorry your gonna have to elaborate on that.
And secondly can you explain what the Prophet ment by price of a dog in the following.
Volume 7 : Book 71 : Hadith 656 :
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Narrated by Abu Mas'ud:
The Prophet forbade the utilization of the price of a dog, the earnings of prostitute and the earnings of a foreteller |
|
aboosait
INDIA
|
Posted - Thursday, November 6, 2008 - 5:02 PM
quote:
Brother aboosait, thanks for the reply but I'm sorry your gonna have to elaborate on that.
google it.
quote:
Narrated by Abu Mas'ud:
The Prophet forbade the utilization of the price of a dog, the earnings of prostitute and the earnings of a foreteller
obviously that would mean a ban on trading in dogs as a commodity.
Edited by: aboosait on Thursday, November 06, 2008 5:30 PM |
|
shah_625
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Thursday, November 6, 2008 - 5:15 PM
"obviously that would mean a ban on trading in dogs as a commodity"
Maybe that is what the Prophet meant when he said other than hunting and guarding. |
|
aboosait
INDIA
|
 Posted - Friday, November 7, 2008 - 1:48 AM
quote:
It can be kept for protection as well as for hunting purposes. It can be kept as a pet as well. If kept as a pet............"
Assalamualaykum w.r.w.b.
Respected Hafizji,
Kindly provide proof for the portion of the fatwa quoted from your post. I am repeating this question assuming that you are too busy in your da'wa activities and have not read my questions -- this and the questions I asked you on October 31 regarding your concept about the angels.
Kindly spare some of your valuable time to clarify these doubts that have arisen out of your post under reference.
That question has arisen in our minds because it iscontrdicting what is mentioned in the Ahadith "if a dog is kept beside hunting and protection then reward of two qirat will be deducted from that person's good deeds".
Edited by: ibrahim on Saturday, November 08, 2008 9:08 AM |
|
ibrahim
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Saturday, November 8, 2008 - 9:22 AM
wa alaikum us salaam dear brother
1st a clarification:
Above quote is not my Fatwa though taken from my post. I've just quoted it copied the related QnA.
2ndly, I've asked the quoted person 2day to guide us in this regard. So plz wait abit more. I hope that i'll be able to present something about it on Monday.
Thanks 4 ur patience. Jazkaumullah |
|
aboosait
INDIA
|
Posted - Saturday, November 8, 2008 - 10:05 AM
Respected Hafizji,
wa alaikum us salaam Wa Rahmatullahi wa barakatuhu.
Jazakallahu khair.
May Allah Subhanahu wa Ta;alaa reward ou amply for your patient hearing of our comments and for initiating early action to clarify your stand.
quote:
.........Above quote is not my Fatwa ........... I've just quoted it copied.........
Since the matter quoted by you did not contain any remarks from your side it was assumed that you are in agreement with what you have quoted and we on our part are opposed to blind taqleed.
.
Edited by: aboosait on Saturday, November 08, 2008 10:07 AM |
|
ibrahim
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Saturday, November 8, 2008 - 11:22 AM
yes u r right bro. I quoted it as i've more or less the same opinion in general regarding this matter despite the fact that i don't like dogs & hopefully will never keep them as pet.
& yes I also oppose blind Taqleed. Right now I just want to see the comments of the quoted person regarding the points that U people have raised. Surely i'll say some from my side if needed. |
|
ibrahim
PAKISTAN
|
Posted - Tuesday, November 11, 2008 - 8:15 AM
Here is some more from the author of above quoted QnA. I do hope that it'll clear some points of the matter at least. Lets see what U people say.
" salam to all participants
In order to understand an issue mentioned in Hadith narratives, it is imperative that all the variants of that narrative be studied in major Hadith works so that one can get closer to the actual picture portrayed. This comprehensive study is essential because narrators do not always report an incident in its complete form. At times important bits and pieces are left out in a narrative which are found in others.
Now if we compile and collate all the narratives which mention the keeping of dogs, we can draw the conclusion that in Madinah at one time stray dogs were causing a great nuisance. The Prophet (sws) ordered that they be killed. A big campaign was launched by the companions to rid the streets of Madinah from this menace. In the background of this campaign of killing the Prophet (sws) said that dogs which are used for some specific purpose eg watch-dogs should be spared and he further said that if except for such obvious needs dogs should not be kept otherwise a person would be penalized. Obviously this was because dogs would go out of the places where they would be kept and cause nuisance for others.
It is for this reason that the issue of pet dogs is not even discussed in these narratives. The original Arabic words of these narratives have no such words as "a pet dog". They only say "dogs are which not kept for this purpose ...". And this sentence itself needs to be understood in the light of directive of killing of stray dogs in those times, as I have referred to earlier. For details, see for example Muslim, Nos: 1570-1574.
As far as the issue of angels not entering the house where a dog is kept or where there is a picture these narratives also need to be studied with their complete variants. A study of the latter of the two has shown that these pictures were pictures or portraits which were worshipped in those times. Understandably angels show an aversion to entering houses where someone other than God is worshipped. In other words though most narratives mention seem to prohibit every type of picture, if all the narratives are studied we come to know that only certain pictures (ie those which were worshipped) were forbidden.
Similar should be the case with dogs. Some evil belief must have been attached to certain dogs which were kept in houses and it was this that made the angels averse to these dogs. In other words, this prohibition too relates to certain types of dogs. This is further evident from the fact that angels apparently are not averse to dogs which are meant for security purposes or for hunting otherwise the Prophet (sws) would never have allowed them.
As far as the issue of earning through selling dogs is concerned the narrative is regarded weak by authorities.
regards
Shehzad Saleem |
|
mbellos
NIGERIA
|
Posted - Thursday, November 13, 2008 - 5:49 PM
| Assalamoeleikumwarahmatullah.Dogs are capable of being tamed. Wolves are not :P If you have a choice, keep it. But we have to observe the limits as explained by Brother Abrahame because they can also act like beasts. They can also have diseases which dogs can pass on to humans, especial little children and babees. |
|
aboosait
INDIA
|
Posted - Tuesday, December 2, 2008 - 10:30 AM
quote:
...........certain Ahādīth mention that angels have an aversion to dogs and angels, we know, often frequent our houses to shower blessings on us. This is just like showing respect to their personal dislike – nothing more...........
quote:
It can be kept for protection as well as for hunting purposes. It can be kept as a pet as well. If kept as a pet............"
.
The questions asked by me on those two posts of yours have not yet been answered.
1. How could the angels have an aversion to anything? Do they have a free will like humans?
2. Please produce proof for your statement "It can be kept as a pet as well."
Jazakallahu khair.
Wa s salam.
Edited by: aboosait on Tuesday, December 02, 2008 3:09 PM |
|
 Reply to Topic 
Printer Friendly |
| Jump To: |
|
|
|