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aboosait
INDIA
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 Posted - Monday, February 5, 2007 - 7:58 AM 
quote:
it is the sufi-ism, which spreaded Islam in the whole the world.
I think you would rather say 'it is the Sufis themselves who spread Sufism in the world' because,
If Sufis insist that they are Muslims, then what is the sense of identifying themselves with Sufism rather than with Islam.
The word "Sufism" was not familiar to those who lived in the first and the best three generations of as-Salaf as-Salih (the pious predecessors) who were commanded by Allah the Exalted and His Messenger.(s.a.w)
If your claim is different please produce proof. |
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Loveall
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Monday, February 5, 2007 - 8:23 AM
QUOTE: The word "Sufism" was not familiar to those who lived in the first and the best three generations of as-Salaf as-Salih (the pious predecessors) who were commanded by Allah the Exalted and His Messenger.(s.a.w).
Although not familiar,I think, the literal meaning of Sufi may solve the problem like many other terms were developed lator on among the Muslims.
Edited by: Loveall on Monday, February 05, 2007 8:27 AM |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Monday, February 5, 2007 - 1:38 PM
quote:
Although not familiar,I think, the literal meaning of Sufi may solve the problem like many other terms were developed lator on among the Muslims.
Edited by: Loveall on Monday, February 05, 2007 8:27 AM
I dont agree with what you think. |
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Loveall
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Tuesday, February 6, 2007 - 1:50 AM
| Aboosait, because you have just a bird’s eye view of the valuable views of various authors and the participants, “Why shouldn’t I DISAGREE to your very much poor understanding?” |
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Loveall
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Tuesday, February 6, 2007 - 1:50 AM
| Aboosait, because you have just a bird’s eye view of the valuable views of various authors and the participants, “Why shouldn’t I DISAGREE to your very much poor understanding?” |
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usmani790
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Tuesday, February 6, 2007 - 7:51 AM
Brother Khaled,
Due to the some people violate the Quran and Sunnah in the name of sufism why we should reject the sufism all together?.To me both doing mistake.The true sufism invite us to follow the Quran and Sunnah and bring us closer to our Lord.Just by reading the verses we can not benefit from it or could follow it as much as needed.It is require the great deal of hard work and pain to be able to come up with the requirement of Quran and Sunnah even to a extend only.
Like just by reading the books one can not be a doctor so just by reading the Quran one can not be a good muslim as well.To be a doctor one need a specific environment and learned teachers along the books so do it needed for becoming a good muslim.
Why Sahabah were best muslims and why we are not even a good muslims?(the majority).Sahabah also have the same Quran what we have in our hands today.The answer is that,they have the best teacher and trainer and we don’t feel any need to have a teacher or trainer at all.
Every where you will find the black sheeps but we should not stop in our search.If we are sincere in our search for becoming a good muslim,there will be always people in the society who could help us in this regards.
So I was not saying to you directly that you are rejecting the verses of Quran (nauzubillah) but that was my prayers to our Lord that since the true sufism is based on Quran and Sunnah so rejecting true sufism just because now a days it has a bad name, I feel that people infect rejecting the Quran it self unknowingly.I was asking to save people from that. |
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khaledgr8
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Tuesday, February 6, 2007 - 9:27 AM
Brother Osmani ,
Thanks for your thoughtful clarification.
The debate you have raised can have two opinions since Sufism is not a direct term of Quran ; i still say.
Ok . For a moment i agree with you , so how would u define present Sufism historically and what is it in reality.
how i see Islam , i had mentioned verse 62:2 . Read Imam Islahi(ra) Tafseer regarding it.Quran uses word Islam everywhere i.e the way of God.
So why we need so much emphasize on Sufism ? |
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usmani790
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Tuesday, February 6, 2007 - 9:39 AM
Brother Raushan
Quote:-lets start with quran,
which part ,we are not willing to follow.
plz share one ,mentioned in the artic
Brother there is one from the article.
Say: ‘I do not possess benefit for myself or harm, except as Allah wills’" (Koran 7:188),
yet we tend to rely on ourselves and our plans, in obliviousness to the facts of ‘Aqida that ourselves and our plans have no effect, that Allah alone brings about effects.
If you want to test yourself on this, the next time you contact someone with good connections whose help is critical to you, take a look at your heart at the moment you ask him to put in a good word for you with someone, and see whom you are relying upon. If you are like most of us, Allah is not at the forefront of your thoughts, despite the fact that He alone is controlling the outcome. Isn’t this a lapse in your ‘Aqida, or, at the very least, in your certainty? |
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raushan
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
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Posted - Tuesday, February 6, 2007 - 1:28 PM
no issues,till now
we are talking about "tariqat"means to purify one's heart.
Helping poor is good but if it is done for the sake of popularity then its bad.
Bro usmani,
No one objects on the objectives but the" Ways"suggested for a seeker in the name of sufism. |
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usmani790
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Wednesday, February 7, 2007 - 6:39 AM
Brother Khaled
Quote:- how would u define present Sufism historically and what is it in reality.
In today's sufism there are good people and bad people both we will find.If we have the basic understanding of our religion clear in our mind, so we could easily distinguish between two.What I used to call the true sufism is very limited but still exist and its routes goes to the medieval times.Peoples are benefiting a lot from it even today.Following is a link where you could hear the speeches of following people who are the sheikh and belong to Tasawwuf/Sufism.You could down load their speeches and listen.It will give a good understanding of sufism.
5-Abdul Hai
21-Abur Raoof Sakharvi
143-Taqi Usmani
163-Zulfiqar Ahmed
Dr.Abul hai sahib is not alive now.
http://is.aswatalislam.net/CategorySelectionMadeP.aspx?CatID=1002
Quote:-how i see Islam , i had mentioned verse 62:2 . Read Imam Islahi(ra) Tafseer regarding it.
I can not find the tafseer you are refering, if it is on net please provide the link for me.
Quote:-Quran uses word Islam everywhere i.e the way of God. So why we need so much emphasize on Sufism ?
Sufism is the name of a system which teaches us what Islam demand from us.When we were young, we used to go to madersa to learn the Quran.As we never stuck in madersa and we learn there how to read the Quran so we must not stuck in sufism if we really wish to learn about Islam. |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Wednesday, February 7, 2007 - 7:02 AM
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"tariqat"means to purify one's heart.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To know the facts about it please read 'The Naqshbandi Tariqat Unveiled'
The link for this is
http://www.ahya.org/amm/modules.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=71 |
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usmani790
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Wednesday, February 7, 2007 - 7:05 AM
Brother raushan
Please give some examples for that, because I have joined this system but I have never notice such a thing there.
Brother if some one have the true desire so he could find the right place.But if some one only wish to find faults in any thing,this is the easiest and interesting thing to do.For getting the wordily education, we use to travel all over the world to find the good college and university but for getting the religious knowledge and education we have no time including my self. |
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raushan
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
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Posted - Wednesday, February 7, 2007 - 9:12 AM
I m not against the objectives as said earlier.
To get knowledge and understanding is very much desirable and must be encouraged.
what I said about the 'ways'to achieve the objective is in question.These ways are different in different structures of sufism.
There is no harm till it is within the limits of Quran and Sunnah.
say ,zikr is essential to purify one's heart and soul.But if someone suggests that parroting some particular words n number of times will lead to zikr,is nothing but distortion of the very meaning of it.
It will resemble to "jaap"as it also aims to repeat a particular word with fixed number of times.
Al-Baqara [2:239]
2:239 If ye fear (an enemy), pray on foot, or riding, (as may be most convenient), but when ye are in security, celebrate Allah's praises in the manner He has taught you, which ye knew not (before).
Al-Ahzab [33:41]
33:41 O ye who believe! Celebrate the praises of Allah, and do this often; |
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khaledgr8
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Wednesday, February 7, 2007 - 10:10 AM
I wish to know that terms and simple concept of Quran and Sunnah are not enough so that we are to follow so called Sufism.
The objective is very clear but why need so emphasize on it; it is out of my understanding.
Islam should be our way. Why so-called Sufism is required to confuse people.
Bro-Osmani: I was referring "Tadabbur -e-Quran” By great scholar "Moulana Amin Ahsan Islahi. (ra)" .I am afraid to say it is not on website yet.
There are many concepts in Sufism like:
• Sufi practices
• Dhikr
• Hadhra
• Qawwali
• Sama
• Khalwa
• Nazar ill'al-murd
Now how will you synchronize Qawali , sama and so forth with Islam.
Islam is very clear and concise in Quran & sunnah .The interpretations of traditional scholars is not Deen .
Quote:” Like just by reading the books one can not be a doctor so just by reading the Quran one can not be a good Muslim as well. To be a doctor one need a specific environment and learned teachers along the books so do it needed for becoming a good Muslim?”
Yes, it should be that one needs a scholastic environment in order to be a good and pious Muslim .But every scholastic environment would have different interpretations. Now what will you say that all ideologies they possess is Islam. We only say Islam in this environment which is according to Quran & Sunnah since they are absolute. Furthermore, by your view a person can not study Quran for getting fear of God.Quran is not a complex book for a common reader.
Quote :” Why Sahabah were best muslims and why we are not even a good muslims?(the majority).Sahabah also have the same Quran what we have in our hands today.The answer is that,they have the best teacher and trainer and we don’t feel any need to have a teacher or trainer at all.”.
In this perspective, the context is really important. There was a God-scheme (Nusrate-e-Deen) was required so as to murder Kuffar of Quraish.The other important thing ,Muhammad (PBUH) was there .That was exception because Allah had to clear Haq on the Arabs.
Prophet Muhammad says “I am leaving two things for you Quran & Sunnah “.
He did not mention any complex concept to follow Islam. There is no Sufism in Quran in objective or linguistic meanings.
After that scholars presented their own terms to define Islam, but that was not Quranic Concepts.
Please read below article for pure Islam:
http://www.renaissance.com.pk/JunPhilofReligion2y6.html |
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usmani790
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Wednesday, February 7, 2007 - 11:39 AM
Quote:-It will resemble to "jaap"as it also aims to repeat a particular word with fixed number of times.
I understand your point brother.But do how you know that doing zikr this way in not correct.Could you please show me any thing which suggest that this is the wrong way of doing zikr.See following are two ahadith for your reference.Hoping that it will help to you to undersatand it better.
Yahya related to me from Malik from Sumayy, the mawla of Abu Bakr, from Abu Salih as-Samman from Abu Hurayra that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Whoever says, 'Glory be to Allah and with His praise' (Subhana'llah wa bi-hamdihi) one hundred times in a day will have his wrong actions taken away from him, even if they are as abundant as the foam on the sea." (Muwatta Book #15, Hadith #15.7.21)
Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "If one says one-hundred times in one day: "None has the right to be worshipped but Allah, the Alone Who has no partners, to Him belongs Dominion and to Him belong all the Praises, and He has power over all things (i.e. Omnipotent)", one will get the reward of manumitting ten slaves, and one-hundred good deeds will be written in his account, and one-hundred bad deeds will be wiped off or erased from his account, and on that day he will be protected from the morning till evening from Satan, and nobody will be superior to him except one who has done more than that which he has done." (Sahih Bukhari Book #54, Hadith #514) |
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raushan
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
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Posted - Wednesday, February 7, 2007 - 1:36 PM
Thanks for helping me to understand it better.I am really trying to.
The above two hadith inspired two believers to do zikr hundred times a day.
One ,while opens his eyes after a long sleep thanks Him because Almighty has given a new birth.He thanked for the precious parts of the body given to him to live an easy life.He met his family members and say how great is my Creator,who has given me such a beautiful company.He sees the mango tree in his garden and say thanks my Lord ,what a wonderful arrangement You have made for my food.He goes for earning in the market.He worked hard utilising the capabilities given to him by Allah and get paid ,he again thanks.He interact many things and thoughts that may cause him to fell in wrong actions.He again praises Allah ,to save him .He return to his home,greet everyone with mercy and love.He goes to bed and thanked Allah for the wonderful day he enjoyed.He close his eyes and think I have no power but Allah only can raise me again.
The next one ,simply buys a counting gadget,sits in a corner and repeated 'Glory be to Allah and with His praise' (Subhana'llah wa bi-hamdihi) one hundred times,and finished his task.
The second one was right and really understand the meaning better.
Am I right ,Usmani? |
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