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usmani790
PAKISTAN
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 Posted - Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 9:57 AM 
Brother Salman
Quote:- As I mentioned, these questions refer to the core issue. Had sufism been just about getting closer to Allah, we all would have supported it lovingly.
Please read the article whose link is provided in the my opening post and I am posting it here specially for you again.After reading this article, we knows that Tasawwuf is well defined by the Quranic verses and Sahih ahadith.Further more one can see in this article that the big name of Islamic history are there who themself used to follow the it.
http://www.tamilmuslim.co.uk/articles/traditional.htm
If all these is not good enough for you to follow this path, then I am afraid that the answer which you are looking won’t help you much in this regards.
Regards, |
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usmani790
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 10:29 AM
Quote:-Quran doesnt ask me to count ,it simply says I should remember Him for each and every event that occurs in my day to day life.
But ahadith does,What about the ahadith both give you the munber of 100 times.If one do it in one or two times then what wrong with it.
Please look at the second hadith once again.
Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "If one says one-hundred times in one day: "None has the right to be worshipped but Allah, the Alone Who has no partners, to Him belongs Dominion and to Him belong all the Praises, and He has power over all things (i.e. Omnipotent)", one will get the reward of manumitting ten slaves, and one-hundred good deeds will be written in his account, and one-hundred bad deeds will be wiped off or erased from his account, and on that day he will be protected from the morning till evening from Satan, and nobody will be superior to him except one who has done more than that which he has done." (Sahih Bukhari Book #54, Hadith #514)
This hadith asking us a specific wording to be said hunderd times a day.How should one must say these words hundred time a day?and further its says that if one which be superior than he has to done more than that.the way you are suggesting for zikr will be not parcticle as far as following to his hadith is concerned.
Before we go some where else it will be better we must first settled this issue first.I am still waiting some quotation from Quran and Sunnah from your side as I requested earlier.
Regards,
Edited by: usmani790 on Saturday, February 10, 2007 10:38 AM |
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salmant
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 10:31 AM
| Very enlightening article. Thank you for sending me the link again. However, it is irrelevant to my questions mentioned in previous posts. So they remain unanswered. |
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usmani790
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 10:47 AM
I had try to answer it with the help of a learned Mufti sahib,but not upto your satisfaction.
Take my apologies for that. |
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salmant
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 11:39 AM
Thank you,
Let us then open this for everyone. I am posting the link of the Asif Iftikhar article again:
http://www.renaissance.com.pk/AugDial2y4.html
Would anyone else want to comment on it? Or attempt to answer my questions?
Regards,
Salman |
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raushan
UNITED ARAB EMIRATES
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Posted - Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 12:13 PM
quote:
...the way you are suggesting for zikr will be not parcticle as far as following to his hadith is concerned.
Before we go some where else it will be better we must first settled this issue first.I am still waiting some quotation from Quran and Sunnah from your side as I requested earlier.
Regards,
Edited by: usmani790 on Saturday, February 10, 2007 10:38 AM
33:41 O ye who believe! Celebrate the praises of Allah, and do this often;
62:10 And when the Prayer is finished, then may ye disperse through the land, and seek of the Bounty of Allah. and celebrate the Praises of Allah often (and without stint): that ye may prosper.
for Hadith ,I refer the same you posted.
You have taken 100 means counting 100 times,I see it as "often".
Allah knows well.
Jazakallah brother,thanks for your time.
wassalam |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 3:42 PM
quote:
If all these is not good enough for you to follow this path, then I am afraid that the answer which you are looking won’t help you much in this regards
Three fundamentals of Sufism which are innovations not sanctioned by the Qur'an or the Sunnah:-
The division of knowledge into exoteric, or manifest, asoteric, or hidden;
The division of Islam into shari'ah (religious sciences) and the sciences of truth; and
the addition to Islam of the Sufi order as the path leading to the truth.
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Loveall
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 5:07 PM
QUOTE: - The only proper way is to increase one’s knowledge by studying Islam under trustworthy and knowledgeable scholars.
You are right. But who are the trustworthy and knowledgeable scholars because every Muslim considers one’s own scholars, whom he/she follows, trustworthy and knowledgeable according to Holy Quran and the Sunnah?
Every Muslim has one’s own interpretation and surely everyone gives the full reverences of Holy Quran and the Sunnah. So what are the parameters? |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Sunday, February 11, 2007 - 12:33 AM
quote:
usmani790 PAKISTAN Posted - Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 10:29 AM
Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "If one says one-hundred times in one day:…………
You have written that Muhammed-Rasoolullah Sallahu Alaihi Wasallam told something to the Sahabi Abu Huraira which Abu Huraira has quoted.
Right?..ok,..brother usmani, observe the words and please answer my questions.
quote:
If one says100 times...
Says to whom?
to himself? or
to his companions? or
to the non muslims with whom he interacts?
I am asking you this because the statement "If one says100 times..." is in a language common to both the Prophet and the Sahabi to whom it was adressed.
Which means to say that the Sahabi understood the meaning of each and every word in the statement of Rasoolullah s.a.w.
Secondly the word is
"..one says100 times..."
and how can it be interpreted to mean
"one who simply repeats these words 100 times sitting in a secluded place is entitled to get the reward"? |
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usmani790
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Monday, February 12, 2007 - 4:54 AM
Brother Abusait
Quote:-Says to whom?
Say to Allah and who else and it will better to say in arabic.With the little effort one can easily memorize it.
33:41 O ye who believe! Celebrate the praises of Allah, and do this often;
Usually people say diffrent zikr as thought by Prophet(pbuh).You can find these zikr in islamic books shop or may be in Masjid as well.
Quote:-one who simply repeats these words 100 times sitting in a secluded place is entitled to get the reward"?
One should say it in privacy may in his house or as convenient to him.All the earth belong to Allah from where one says, he will get the reward.It is always good when ever one do zikr try to keep his heart towards Allah.Try it and you will find your self getting closer to Allah.There is no more pleasure in any thing else. |
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usmani790
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Monday, February 12, 2007 - 9:22 AM
Quote:-You have taken 100 means counting 100 times,I see it as "often".
This is also a correct way but depending which zikr one is saying.Please see the following ahdith as well.
It is reported in Saheeh Muslim that he said: "I seek forgiveness one hundred times in a day." [Muslim]
`Abdullah ibn `Umar said: We counted in a single sitting the Messenger of Allah, sallallahu `alaihi wa sallam, saying one hundred times: "Rabbi-ghfir-lee wa tub `alayya innaka anta-t-tawwabu-l-ghafoor." [My Lord, forgive me and accept my repentance, verily you are Acceptor of Repentance, Oft-Forgiving.] [Ahmad, Abu Dawood, Ibn Maajah] |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Monday, February 12, 2007 - 3:17 PM
quote:
usmani790 PAKISTAN Posted - Monday, February 12, 2007 - 9:22 AM
`Abdullah ibn `Umar said: We counted in a single sitting the Messenger of Allah, sallallahu `alaihi wa sallam, saying one hundred times:…… [My Lord, forgive me and accept my repentance, verily you are Acceptor of Repentance, Oft-Forgiving.]
The above quote is in proof of the hadeeth
"I seek forgiveness one hundred times in a day."
Here it may please be noted that:
1. It was `Abdullah ibn `Umar and his companions who have COUNTED. (May Allah be Pleased with them all.)
2. This was a prayer of repentance asking forgiveness from Allah
3. The prayer was 'My Lord, forgive me and accept my repentance, verily you are Acceptor of Repentance, Oft-Forgiving’
4. I wonder how this can be confused with the following statement made by you earlier quote:
usmani790 PAKISTAN Posted - Saturday, February 10, 2007 - 10:29 AM
Allah's Apostle said,
"If one says one-hundred times in one day:
None has the right to be worshipped but Allah, the Alone Who has no partners, to Him belongs Dominion and to Him belong all the Praises, and He has power over all things”
Please note that:
1. This is the Tawheed which was preached and practiced by all the Prophets.
2. The purpose of Allah in sending Prophets to this world was to teach this Tawheed.
3. We have been instructed to follow their example (preach and practise this principle of Tawheed.)
4. The objective cannot be achieved if you ‘say it in privacy of your house or as convenient’
I suppose I have made clear two things.
1. There are things to be said in private to Allah s.w.t. alone
2. There are also things to be said in public and practised in our lives.
Please do not confuse these two types of zikr and reduce the ‘deen’ into a meaningless bundle of rituals sold in the so called ‘islamic bookshops’ which sell anything for money.
Many innocent Muslims ‘buy’ these ‘zikr books’ and dump them on the bookshelf of mosques for ‘eesal-e-sawab’
The following link is an interview with the owner of a leading Delhi basesd Islamic Bookstore.
http://www.ahya.org/amm/modules.php?name=Sections&op=viewarticle&artid=192 |
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usmani790
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 5:09 AM
Quote:-
1. This is the Tawheed which was preached and practiced by all the Prophets.
2. The purpose of Allah in sending Prophets to this world was to teach this Tawheed.
3. We have been instructed to follow their example (preach and practise this principle of Tawheed.)
4. The objective cannot be achieved if you ‘say it in privacy of your house or as convenient’
If one have only little bit sense so he could easily understood by looking at the hadith that saying this zikr 100 time is not for that purpose which you are suggesting here but for a Muslim him self.
Quote:-Please do not confuse these two types of zikr and reduce the ‘deen’ into a meaningless bundle of rituals sold in the so called ‘islamic bookshops’ which sell anything for money.
Surely one must have that much sense to take the right thing. |
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 7:13 AM
quote:
usmani790 PAKISTAN Posted - Monday, February 12, 2007 - 4:54 AM
Says to whom? Say to Allah and who else and it will better to say in Arabic
Now you are saying:
quote:
usmani790 PAKISTAN Posted - Tuesday, February 13, 2007 - 5:09 AM
saying this zikr 100 time is ……… for a Muslim him self
In the first quote you mean to say it is for Allah
In the second quote you mean to say it is for yourself
Also you deny that this zikr is from Allah for the purpose of understanding its meaning, for implimenting the principles in our lives and for propagating it.(ASTAGFIRULLAH)
Please clarify your stand again.
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usmani790
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Wednesday, February 14, 2007 - 9:42 AM
| I am already tired of answering your nonsensical way for asking clerifications. Frist you already used to assume things on my behave.This is not the appropriate way for asking clarification brother,I am sorry. |
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imran776
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Friday, February 16, 2007 - 12:59 PM
AOA Brothers/Sisters,
Sorry for jumping in late in the discussion.
Going through the previous posts my personal feeling is that we are deviating from the main issues and stuck in the details without understanding the core principles of tasawwaf.
The topics needs to be adressed, before we discuss anything else are:
a) The concept of God according to Tasawaff
b) The purpose of of life/humans according to tasawaff
c) Sources of knowledge/guidance according to tasawaff
d) Concept of tasawaff about prophets and life hereafter
Please if we can address the above topics to understand tasawaff and the reasons why its seperated from Islam and named tasawaff.
Kind Regards
Imran |
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