| Author | Topic |
Thameena
UNITED KINGDOM
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 Posted - Tuesday, December 6, 2005 - 5:23 PM 
Surah Nisa, Verse 34
Bismillah
Quran: 2:231
Either retain them in kindness or release them in kindness. Do not retain them in order to injure (or hurt) them; or to take undue advantage; if any one does that he has wronged his own soul.
Do not treat Allah's Signs as a jest, but solemnly rehearse Allah's favours on you, and the fact that He sent down to you the Book and Wisdom, for your instruction. And fear Allah, and know that Allah is well acquainted with all things.
Assalamualaikum,
Br Ibrahim said:
"I'm afraid, U r NOT right here Bcoz The word “Zarb” means to Beat in Arabic"
I suggest you read the above verse. What does this verse say? What about showing her kindness? How about releasing her rather than give her pain? Who has told you that muslims must remain in an agonising marriage or live with a controlling, abusive spouse?
Which wife can feel inclined to her husband after she has been beaten? Once, twice, does it matter? It is still violence and still abuse. Imagine how many times will he beat her throughout her life? For what reasons? Which disagreements? Even the fahisha wife is treated with respect in the Quran (65:1-2) and yet you are saying that ordinary muslimah wives should be beaten as a 'last resort' without evidence from the Quran or the practice of the Prophet. And yet you know full well that the prophet condemned this behaviour and he never beat his wives and we are supposed to follow his example, so why propogate it?
If beating was allowed there should be clear verses on this and beating wives violently would have continued in arabia as before. Are we now going back to the period of ignorance and male chauvanism?
Someone said:
"Because the wives of the prophet created no such situation.."
By the same anology then it can equally be said that the Prophet created no such situation by which any of his wives would do something against God's limits.
Beating certainly does not solve any marital problems! She can get a divorce straight away by just discussing his bad behaviour with her folk in the next verse (4:35)! No Muslim woman has to remain in any unhappy, abusive or violent marriage! And there are plenty of evidence on this from the Quran and sunnah.
When no man is allowed to keep the wife against her will, so how can he be allowed to mistreat her and batter her.
There are several different meanings of the word 'daraba' (zarb) and even in the Quran there are many different meanings of this word.
Also someone said:
"Can we discover new meaning in the words used in the Qur'an?"
How can we contradict the above Quran verse (2:231)?
Allah says
Those who listen to the Word (the Quran) and follow the best meaning in it: those are the ones whom Allah has guided and those are the one's endowed with understanding.
Quran 39:18
Allah swt asks us to follow the best meaning in the Quran yet, some of you take the worst meaning that's completely out of it's literal context!
Also 'Strike' in arabic is not to physically beat! Daraba (zarb) has so many other meanings. So why choose only this verse 4:34 to mean "beat" for daraba and not all the rest?
'Daraba' can also mean to separate and it has many other different meanings. Allah Almighty also used the word "darabtum", which is derived from the word "daraba" in Noble Verse 4:94, which mean to "go abroad" in the sake of Allah Almighty:
"O ye who believe! When ye go abroad (darabtum) in the cause of Allah, investigate carefully, And say not to anyone who offers you a salutation: 'Thou art none of a Believer!' Coveting the perishable good Of this life: with Allah Are profits and spoils abundant. Even thus were ye yourselves Before, till Allah conferred On you His favours: therefore Carefully investigate. For Allah is well aware Of all that ye do. (The Noble Quran, 4:94)"
So "daraba" here can literally means to "go abroad", or "give" but not in the sense to give something by hand, but rather to give or provide an example or parable and even when it means to 'strike' in the Quran, it is not in the physical sense!
In this case then is it right to change the meaning of 'daraba' here and bring out a new meaning of 'beat'? Why not in all the other verses?
Here are more examples:
Read 'strike' in the arabic literal context!
To travel, to get out: 3:156; 4:101; 38:44; 73:20; 2:273
To strike: 2:60,73; 7:160; 8:12; 20:77; 24:31; 26:63; 37:93; 47:4 8:50; 47:27
To set up: 43:58; 57:13
To give (examples): 14:24,45; 16:75,76,112; 18:32,45; 24:35; 30:28,58; 36:78; 39:27,29; 43:17; 59:21; 66:10,11
To take away, to ignore: 43:5
To condemn: 2:61
To seal, to draw over: 18:11
To cover: 24:31
To explain: 13:17
In fact men have abused this verse and changed the meaning to mean only "beat" in relation to women in 4:34 in order to subjugate women. It was never the practice of the Prophet to beat his wives or other women. He never commanded men to beat, tap, humiliate or abuse their wives. In fact he is reported to have clearly said NOT to beat women and we are to follow his example (3:31-32)
These hadiths clearly contradict beating:
"How does anyone of you beat his wife as he beats the stallion camel and then embrace (sleep with) her?
Al-Bukhari, English Translation, vol. 8, Hadith 68, pp. 42-43.
Other traditions in Abu Da'ud, Nasa'i, Ibn Majah, Ahmad bin Hanbal and others, to the effect that he forbade the beating of any woman, saying:
Never beat God's handmaidens"
He also said
Some (women) visited my family complaining about their husbands beating them). These (husbands) are not the best of you.
Any form of abuse or violence on the wife by the husband for any reason is completely forbidden (See 2:231 & others including Prophet's last sermon). Even during wartime, women & children are not to be harmed!
The only reason for which a Muslim woman can be physically punished is through an Islamic court, and only if she is proved a zani witnessed by four adults(24:2). Otherwise her husband can either keep her, separate or divorce her if she is indecent fahisha see (65:1). Or the husband & wife can swear an oath to the Islamic court (24:6).
The punishment of the woman is near to impossible because clearly Allah swt prefers it to be this way.
If anyone accuses other honourable sisters of 'promoting the circumstances' for women to become fahisha, promiscuous, adultress or prostitutes, then the punishment is, as the in verse 24:4.
There is no where in the Quran where the word daraba means physically to 'beat'. Daraba in idribhunna can mean anything from separation & eviction (surah Talaq) or providing an example to the nashazi (4:34), unchaste or fahisha wife (see prophet's last sermon). Daraba can also mean the husband mingling with her and having relations!
The obedience of salahat qanatat (4:34), pious devotion of wives is to Allah swt, in safeguarding her privacy (or chastity). And husbands are qawwamum-fadhl over them i.e take every care of their wives concerns.
In summary, there is the following hadith from the Prophet on the rights of a wife. A person asked the Messenger of Allah, “What right does the wife of one among us have over him?” His answer was:
It is that you shall give her food, you shall not slap her on the face, nor revile her, nor leave her alone except within the house
(Ahmad, Abu Da’ud, Ibn Majah).
This implies provision, residence, respect and security.
It doesn't mean that men can slap their wife around everywhere else on their body, as they feel like it or when they aren't 'feeling in control' of the situation!
Allah swt has never revealed any verse in which a husband can be violent in any sense towards his wife. Also this would be in clear opposition and contradiction to verse 2:231 and others in the Quran 2:229, 30:21, 65:1-2.
Allah swt never commanded men to beat their women. On the contarary, Allah swt says those men who abuse and harm, hurt or injure their wives, such men have wronged their souls.
"When ye divorce women, and they fulfil the term of their ('Iddat), either take them back on equitable terms or set them free on equitable terms; but do not take them back to injure them, (or) to take undue advantage; if any one does that he has wronged his own soul. Do not treat Allah's Signs as a jest, but solemnly rehearse Allah's favours on you, and the fact that He sent down to you the Book and Wisdom, for your instruction. And fear Allah, and know that Allah is well acquainted with all things. (2:231)
The Quran is clear on this issue.
Wife 'beating' or any form of violence or abuse is not permitted in Islam.
Men are the appointed supporters of women, because God has given them more overall capacity than them and because they spend their resources (to maintain the family), therefore, the righteous women are obedient (to God) and during the absence (of their husband) they safeguard private matters as God would safeguard them. As for those women whom you are experiencing a fear of disloyalty from, you shall first advice them persuasively, then (if they continue) you may leave them alone in their bed, then (if they continuue despite your earnest conciliation) you may depart (idhribhunna). If they reform then don't transgress against them. God is Most High, Supreme. (4:34).
I hope this is clear.
I won't be back, because I am busy and I have other commitments.
I pray Allah guides you all.
Wasalam,
Thameena
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See also articles:
Beating Women Or Beating Around the Bush, Or...
Wife-Beating is Not Allowed in Islam
Islam & Sexual Equality
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Thameena
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Tuesday, December 6, 2005 - 5:52 PM
Salams,
And finally, don't be surprised if you don't see any intelligent sisters on this forum, they will be too disgusted at the attitude of some of the Muslim men here.
Hitting or beating a wife is a stupid cowardly, uncivil thing to do. It is abusive and can lead to scaring the wife.
If she is pregnant she can lose a child with one harsh strike from the husband. Hurting her like this can lead to marital rape through making her conform under pressure and other forms of abuse.
This is clearly Zulm and oppression. If she ends up finding a non muslim who is far more respectful, you only have yourselves to blame! (Hint - we already a sister we're about to lose!)
"And among His signs is this, that He created for you mates from among yourselves, that you may dwell in peace and tranquility with them, and He has put love and mercy between your (hearts): Verily in that are signs for those who reflect" (Quran 30:21).
Allah swt created marriage for two partners to love one another not to hate each other.
Wasalam! |
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Rakhtal
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Thursday, December 8, 2005 - 8:17 PM
| Thameena, Your interpretation is not correct! |
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anajee
USA
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Posted - Friday, December 9, 2005 - 1:13 AM
| Salaamu Alaykum! Sis. Thameena is correct in all that she has quoted. She has shown, thru Allah's, ta`ala, Book that many ayah prove that it is not only wrong to beat a woman; but by doing so, the man also does a wrong against Allah and his own soul. As I stated towards the beginning of this discussion, the word 'Darb' takes on a wide range of meanings. Why do we as Muslims tend to choose the one meaning that goes against the very eccense of Islam: PEACE!!! How can we have peace in a family when the wife is ever fearful of violence from her husband? How can we have peace in a family when the sons of our Ummah grow up seeing this act and thinking that Ar-Rahman ordained such a thing? Traditions in certain societies have become part of what most like to think of as the Diynul-Islam. I stress that traditions should never; and, can never replace the Laws that Allah, ta`ala, has given to the Muslims as a Light and Healing. And as far as "changing" the meaning of Al-Kitaab, let me say this: It is not that words of the Quran nor their meanings that have changed, it is the depth of knowledge of those wordsthat men and women who have studied Allah's Signs have grasped. Sis. Thameena, may Allah reward you for your dilegence in study and for your grasp of the Truth that many so-called men of knowledge have failed to understand. |
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Bhavittre
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, December 10, 2005 - 12:30 AM
you said……….In this case then is it right to change the meaning of 'daraba' here and bring out a new meaning of 'beat'?
by changing the meaning, can some woman stop the hand of her husband. Or, those who beat their wives, do they do after obeying quran.
many husband donot know that in quran beatng is allowed in certain circumstances otherwise they might beat their wives with more liberty.
in summary, no one can stop the hand of a husband by islamic or unislamic teachings. it is only good or bad luck of the woman. |
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Bhavittre
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Saturday, December 10, 2005 - 12:47 AM
| Thameena/anajee you are not scholar………. So donot misguide others…….. |
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oosman
USA
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Posted - Saturday, December 10, 2005 - 3:17 AM
Bhavittre,
Are you man or woman? I am confused about you. Can you tell us? |
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anajee
USA
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Posted - Saturday, December 10, 2005 - 8:35 AM
Bhavittre wrote:
"Thameena/anajee you are not scholar………. So donot misguide others"
I must reply to this: Were not the Rabbis at the time of prophet Isa(A.S.)scholars? Just because one is a scholar does not mean that all that they say is true and correct. One does not need be a scholar to recognize the Truth of Allah's Word!!! And how dare anyone launch a charge against me or anyone else for "misguiding" others. Please refrain from such accusation; that is totally un-Islamic. Now, back to the subject. If you read my post on 07/07/04, I stated, "It comes from the Arabic root 'Daraba' which not only means to physically beat, but also to go away from or leave. The way the word is used in the ayah, it becomes 'Idribuhunna'. If one where to consult a modern Arabic/English dictionary, one would see that this word is a command in the fourth tense of the verb. To quote from the Hans Weir Dictionary of Modern Arabic this word means to leave, abandon or forsake." This is not changing the meaning of the words. I was showing a point that as man grows, so does his understanding. Just as the meaning of the word Alaq is now understood to mean a 'leech like clot' or simple a clot, the Arabs of Rasulullah's time could never have comprehended the complexities of the embriodic cycle. So as our knowledge of such things grew, they way that 'scholars' translated this passage also changed. All I have said is not an attempt to change the words of the Quran; these Words are unchangable! Every thing that I have posted here has been backed up by ayah in the Book. So, can anyone be misguided by following the Signs that Allah, Al-`Aliym, set out clearly for man to follow? Nastaghfirullah(We seek Allah's forgiveness)! And, Bhavittre, are you versed in the Arabic language? If so, how do you not see the Truth in Allah's Words? But if not, seek refuge from Allah, ta`ala, for your hasty words.
Wa Salaamu Alaykum wa Rahmatullah wa Baraakatuhu, Ya Ayuhalladhina Aminu! |
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Rakhtal
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Sunday, December 25, 2005 - 8:57 AM
| BHAVITTRE IS RIGHT TO SOME EXTENT! |
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Abinzain
SAUDI ARABIA
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Posted - Saturday, January 7, 2006 - 2:12 AM
Assalam-wa-alaykom,
Men are the appointed supporters of women, because God has given them more overall capacity than them and because they spend their resources (to maintain the family), therefore, the righteous women are obedient (to God) and during the absence (of their husband) they safeguard private matters as God would safeguard them. As for those women whom you are experiencing a fear of disloyalty from, you shall first advice them persuasively, then (if they continue) you may leave them alone in their bed, then (if they continuue despite your earnest conciliation) you may depart (idhribhunna). If they reform then don't transgress against them. God is Most High, Supreme. (4:34).
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THE ABOVE TRANSLATION OF THE VERSE- 4:34 IS WRONG. IT IS THE PRODUCT OF FORGERY.
THE RECOMMENDED TRANSLATION IS AS FOLLOWING:
[4.34] Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places AND BEAT THEM; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.
The translation of the verse (4: 34) of Holy Quran downloaded from the site www.islamasoft.co.uk/downloads.html is “………….admonish them and banish them to beds apart and SCOURGE them…………”
Quote: - How can we have peace in a family when the sons of our Ummah grow up seeing this act and thinking that Ar-Rahman ordained such a thing?
What are the effects on the sons of our Ummah if their mother is “Divorced” As u said why Ar-Rahman ordained such a thing- Divorce? |
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Abinzain
SAUDI ARABIA
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Posted - Saturday, January 7, 2006 - 2:16 AM
AN OPEN MOCKERY WITH THE BOOK OF ALLAH.
Quote: Men are the appointed supporters of women, because God has given them more overall capacity than them and because they spend their resources (to maintain the family), therefore, the righteous women are obedient (to God) and during the absence (of their husband) they safeguard private matters as God would safeguard them. As for those women whom you are experiencing a fear of disloyalty from, you shall first ADVICE THEM persuasively, then (if they continue) you may LEAVE THEM alone in their bed, then (if they continuue despite your earnest conciliation) YOU MAY DEPART (idhribhunna). If they reform then don't transgress against them. God is Most High, Supreme. (4:34).
---------------------------------
If you really want o change the meanings, in last part of the verse it is not idhribhunna but “wa-adhrabu-hunna” means AND depart THEM NOT YOU may depart OTHERWISE the meaning departing is not correct.
I suggest you to please learn Arabic first then dare to do open mockery with the Book of Allah. You must also know that people are not so duffer to acquiesce to your cleverness. |
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Thameena
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Friday, January 23, 2009 - 11:18 AM
| Yes I suggest you learn arabic first and find out what the word DARABA means. I also suggest you read my post before getting hyped up in your chauvainism. Your biggest jihad at this minute is to control your ego (nafs)! |
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anajee
USA
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Posted - Sunday, February 1, 2009 - 3:18 AM
As-Salaamu Alaykum. Once again I feel compelled to respond to this posting. Abinzain, you wrote in your post that my translation of the verse was a forgery because I used the word "idribuhunna". Well since you seem to know the Arabic language, you also know that wa adribuhunna is the same thing as what I said. The 'wa' introduces the imperative command 'idribuhunna'. I used the word as such because that would be how it is pronounced if you were to say it as a single command. Just because I do not agree with your translation does not give you cause to call me a forger. Allah, ta`ala, gives men understanding in degrees. Therefore, Mankind will have different degrees of comprehension. Domestic violence and abuse is one of the most shameful problems of our day both in the Islamic world and the West. If you think that will solve the problems of the Ummah, go for it! But never launch such a bold statement against another Muslim because they do not agree with physical violence against their mate. In the end, Allah will tell us all the truth of all that we have done. In closing, if one treats his wife as a partner in the relationship and treats her fairly, he should never have to worry about that disobedience. But my question goes to all of you 'scholars'. Who is Allah talking about disobedience too? Should you beat her, as you all suggest, if she disobeys you but is still in obedience to Allah, ta`ala? Sounds crazy? We are but men who make our own mistakes, but Allah is free from all wants, Worthy of all praise.
Wa Alaykum As-Salaam! |
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xyzxyz
SAUDI ARABIA
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Posted - Sunday, February 1, 2009 - 4:26 AM
Dear Friends,
"Daraba" has many shades. The word "Darab" is famous in Arab for its basic meaning of "Beating". Note that all these shades do carry a relationship with the basic meaning of beating. Whether it is Beating on land (walking), Beating the ID Card (Swapping), Beating a Door (Knocking), Beating a Proverb (Telling) Beating the Record and others. This is what Arabic is All-about. A particular Word changes its shades thereby remaining very much connected to the basic meaning.
Here are some of the verses of the Koran which clearly show the meaning of dharaba as beating and no other.
2: 60 وَإِذِ اسْتَسْقَى مُوسَى لِقَوْمِهِ فَقُلْنَا اضْرِبْ بِعَصَاكَ الْحَجَرَ فَانْفَجَرَتْ مِنْهُ اثْنَتَا عَشْرَةَ عَيْنًا قَدْ عَلِمَ كُلُّ أُنَاسٍ مَشْرَبَهُمْ كُلُوا وَاشْرَبُوا مِنْ رِزْقِ اللَّهِ وَلا تَعْثَوْا فِي الأرْضِ مُفْسِدِينَ
And remember Moses prayed for water for his people; We said: "Strike (adhrib) the rock with thy staff." Then gushed forth therefrom twelve springs. Each group knew its own place for water. So eat and drink of the sustenance provided by Allah, and do no evil nor mischief on the (face of the) earth.
8: 12 إِذْ يُوحِي رَبُّكَ إِلَى الْمَلائِكَةِ أَنِّي مَعَكُمْ فَثَبِّتُوا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا سَأُلْقِي فِي قُلُوبِ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا الرُّعْبَ فَاضْرِبُوا فَوْقَ الأعْنَاقِ وَاضْرِبُوا مِنْهُمْ كُلَّ بَنَانٍ
Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite (adhrabu) ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."
38: 44 وَخُذْ بِيَدِكَ ضِغْثًا فَاضْرِبْ بِهِ وَلا تَحْنَثْ إِنَّا وَجَدْنَاهُ صَابِرًا نِعْمَ الْعَبْدُ إِنَّهُ أَوَّابٌ
And take in thy hand a little grass, and strike (adhrib) therewith: and break not (thy oath)." Truly We found him full of patience and constancy. How excellent in Our service! ever did he turn (to Us)!
4: 34 الرِّجَالُ قَوَّامُونَ عَلَى النِّسَاءِ بِمَا فَضَّلَ اللَّهُ بَعْضَهُمْ عَلَى بَعْضٍ وَبِمَا أَنْفَقُوا مِنْ أَمْوَالِهِمْ فَالصَّالِحَاتُ قَانِتَاتٌ حَافِظَاتٌ لِلْغَيْبِ بِمَا حَفِظَ اللَّهُ وَاللاتِي تَخَافُونَ نُشُوزَهُنَّ فَعِظُوهُنَّ وَاهْجُرُوهُنَّ فِي الْمَضَاجِعِ وَاضْرِبُوهُنَّ فَإِنْ أَطَعْنَكُمْ فَلا تَبْغُوا عَلَيْهِنَّ سَبِيلا إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ عَلِيًّا كَبِيرًا
Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and beat (scourge) (adhrib) them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
The Reason-of-revelation (Shaan-e-Nuzool) of the Verse 34:4 also is helpful in clarifying the subject further.
"Once a companion Saad Bin Rabia’ (may Allah be pleased with him) slapped his wife Habibah (may Allah be pleased with her) and the matter was reported to Rasoolullah’s (peace be upon him). Rasoolullah (peace be upon him) was about to give his verdict in favour of Wife, but, prior to that, Gabriel (peace be upon him) appeared and revealed this Verse “The Men are rulers over their women…..”, after this revelation Rasoolullah’s (peace be upon him) uttered that I wished something else and Allah (the exalted) ordered something else (Ibn-kathir)."
Further, please read 38: 44 (Suad): Here One of Allah’s apostle Ayub (peace be upon him) was ordered by Allah (the exalted) to beat his wife.
38: 44 is also supports that Islam does allow Husbands beating Wives. But surely as a last resort
quote:
The word ‘Daraba’ has at least 6 meanings in Arabic and are all used within the Quran:
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aboosait
INDIA
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Posted - Thursday, February 19, 2009 - 6:01 PM
quote:
Yes I suggest you learn arabic first and find out what the word DARABA means. I also suggest you read my post before getting hyped up in your chauvainism. Your biggest jihad at this minute is to control your ego (nafs)!
I had ignored this subject as trivial but seeing that it has re-opened after three long years and the debate is continuing, I find the arguments interesting.
By the way Thameena, could you back your interpretation of the word dharaba in that particular verse with simmilar comments by any other scholars of the past preferably from the time of the Prophet or his Sahaba? |
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tilawat
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Monday, February 23, 2009 - 12:45 AM
I could not read the lengthy discussion which seems to be a mere waste of time. The fact is marriage is not a religious institution but essentially a social contract.
Too much stress has been laid on the family which is no doubt essential for upbringing of the children. But I wonder why prophet's widowed mother sent her only child to 'baadia' (country side) to be brought up by Mai Haleema. They say it was the custom of Arabs (The city dwellers only perhaps) to send their newly born children to the country side to be brought up by the wandering Arabs. I doubt if this was so and wonder if Islam stopped it as it does not seem to be the case now.
Will any body enlighten me in this respect? |
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