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oosman
USA
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 Topic initiated on Thursday, April 14, 2005 - 2:53 PM 
Embryonic Stem Cell Research
I would like to discuss what people's views are over here about embryonic stem cell research. To give a brief update of what it is, stem cells are special human cells that can be converted to any kind of human cell, e.g. to liver cells, brain cells, bone cells, lung cells, etc. This allows a possibility of curing someone whose organ has degenerated by introducing stem cells which will re-generate that organ.
But not all stem cells can be converted to any organ cell. Only embryonic stem cells can do this. And a human embryo is on its way into developing into a human being. So to derive these stem cells for the embryo, the embryo is killed.
Is that same as taking a human life?
You can read about stem cells on the Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stem_cell |
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Loveall
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, April 22, 2005 - 1:02 AM 
Before discussing the subject we have to know:
“What is the embryo and it’s what stage is intervened for the purpose?”
The sperm fertilises the egg, in the female genital tract, to form a zygote, which is unicellular (consisting of one cell). This unicellular zygote divides into two, two into four, four into eight and so on so forth. The stage before 150 cells (as in the article- the link) is intervened for the purpose and this stage is reached within FIRST WEEK OF PREGNANCY when the mass of the cells (blastocyst) is floating free in the female genital tract and STILL NOT IMPLANTED into the wall of the uterus (womb).
According to the human Embryology, the EMBRYO is the stage between fourth and eight weeks of pregnancy. This is the time when heart is developed and starts beating to show the signs of life. After eights weeks till delivery it is called the FOETUS.
In THE EMBRYONIC PERIOD the different organs are developed while in THE FOETAL PERIOD the organs grow in size till delivery.
By the way few words about the TWINS (For general knowledge)
1) When the zygote divides into two cells and due to some reasons each cell acts as one zygote leading to the development of two separate babies called IDENTICAL TWINS. These twins are of same sex and other similarities even their fingerprints.
2) On the other hand if two separate eggs are fertilised by two separate sperms then the twins developed are called UN-IDENTICAL TWINS. These twins may be of different sexes and other dissimilarities but similar to their other brothers and sisters.
The home deliveries must be avoided. |
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oosman
USA
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Posted - Saturday, April 23, 2005 - 12:42 PM
Thank you for the valuable information.
I was curious, what is the reason you mention in case 1?
Also what is the stage before which the embryo may be harvested for stem cells without taking a human life - if this is at all allowed?
What do you think of the following hadeeth, can we use it to make a decision when it is ok to remove/destroy embryo for harvesting stem cells?
Sahih Bukhari
Volume 9, Book 93, Number 546:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin Mas'ud:
Allah's Apostle the true and truly inspired, narrated to us, "The creation of everyone of you starts with the process of collecting the material for his body within forty days and forty nights in the womb of his mother. Then he becomes a clot of thick blood for a similar period (40 days) and then he becomes like a piece of flesh for a similar period. Then an angel is sent to him (by Allah) and the angel is allowed (ordered) to write four things; his livelihood, his (date of) death, his deeds, and whether he will be a wretched one or a blessed one (in the Hereafter) and then the soul is breathed into him. So one of you may do (good) deeds characteristic of the people of Paradise so much that there is nothing except a cubit between him and Paradise but then what has been written for him decides his behavior and he starts doing (evil) deeds characteristic of the people of Hell (Fire) and (ultimately) enters Hell (Fire); and one of you may do (evil) deeds characteristic of the people of Hell (Fire) so much so that there is nothing except a cubit between him and Hell (Fire), then what has been written for him decides his behavior and he starts doing (good) deeds characteristic of the people of Paradise and ultimately) enters Paradise." (See Hadith No. 430, Vol. 4) |
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Loveall
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Sunday, April 24, 2005 - 12:11 AM
Thank you for the reply,
I have not all said that harvesting the stage of the embryo is allowed or not in the light of Quran and Ahadith. But I have given the information to help those who want to discuss and give the opinions i.e. my idea was 5 or 6 days (when there is no evidence of the organs development and heart beating etc) vs 40 days, over which the scholars may think to reach some conclusion.
QUOTE: I was curious, what is the reason you mention in case 1?
I have not read the whole articles of the link you have given. I do not know about the case 1 you have mentioned. I was just in touch to the general embryological information relating to the subject. |
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oosman
USA
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Posted - Sunday, April 24, 2005 - 10:54 PM
by case 1, I meant what you said:
1) When the zygote divides into two cells and due to some reasons each cell acts as one zygote leading to the development of two separate babies called IDENTICAL TWINS. These twins are of same sex and other similarities even their fingerprints. |
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NavidKhan
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Monday, April 25, 2005 - 2:40 PM
Stem cell research
Dear All,
Assalamoalaikum wa Rahmatu(A)llahe wabarakatohoo
What I am going to write is based on the little knowledge that I have of the Holy Quran and the Hadeeth of the Holy prophet (salAllahoalaihe wasallam).
In the Holy Quran, Allah Almighty has clearly stated that the creation and development of man in the womb of the Mother is a sign of God, which is relevant in order to understand the concept of resurrection and the life hereafter.
[22:5] O people, if you are in doubt concerning the Resurrection, then consider that We have indeed created you from dust, then from a sperm drop, then from clotted blood, then from a lump of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed, in order that We make Our power manifest to you. And We cause what We will to remain in the wombs for an appointed term; then We bring you forth as babes; then We rear you that you may attain to your age of full strength. And there are some of you who are caused to die in the normal course, and there are others among you are kept back till the worst part of life with the result that they know nothing after having had knowledge. And thou seest the earth lifeless, but when We send down water thereon it stirs and swells and grows every kind of beauteous vegetation.
In this beautiful passage, the various stages of Human development in the Mother’s womb and then a brief summary of mna's sojourn on this Earth is mentioned.
In response to the the question as to whether embryonic stem cell research is valid, my personal view is as follows:
The primary bases for judging of all actions, in light of the Hadeeth of Sahih Bukhari (Hadith No. 1 related on the authority of Umar Ibne Khattab raziAllah anho) are the "intentions" of the person who performs the action.
In matters of religious devotion such as Salat etc. this hadeeth is easily understood. In matters such as the permissibility of stem cell research, however the matter becomes slightly more complicated.
The purpose of doing something, also known in the parlance of Fiqh is called Maqasid. It is important to understand that because stem cell research is an off shoot of In vitro fertilisation in most cases, therefore from an Islamic viewpoint one has to make sure that the methods used right from the beginning are permissible in terms of Islamic ethics and teaching and that the objectives of such research are also clearly defined. These two principles are well developed in all fields of biomedical research and the ethical committees which exist in order to monitor all research in the fields of medicine and biology, throughout the developed world do a pretty good job. The need in my opinion, is for more Muslim Scientists and lay people to be actively involved in these committees and not to hesitate to point out or inform and educate the members of these committees about concerns which are specific to Islamic teachings.
Most embryonic stem cell research is at present being carried out on embryos which are produced as a result of attempts at IVF treatment. These are the "surplus" embryos. I understand that these embryos would be discarded after successful implantation of one of the embryos from the couple who are being treated.
I feel that if the objectives ( maqasid ) of the exercise are noble, such as those which have been mentioned in the original posting i.e. finding cures for genetic and degenerative diseases, then there should not be any abjection to such research on the basis of Islamic teachings or ethics.
This is my personal opinion, in view of my limited knowledge; the truth is that Allah Alone knows best.
wassalam
Navidul Haq Khan |
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oosman
USA
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Posted - Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 2:17 PM
| I wonder if any researchers in Muslims countries are doing embryonic stem cell research or not. It seems it might be ok under some restrictions and government watch. But Allah knows best. |
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NavidKhan
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 6:50 PM
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NavidKhan
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Wednesday, April 27, 2005 - 6:11 PM
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Loveall
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, April 29, 2005 - 10:30 PM
QUOTE: I was curious, what is the reason you mention in case 1?
I mentioned the types of the twins just by the way for general knowledge (I already pointed out) only based on the general embryological information. There was nothing specifically related to the subject of this forum. |
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oosman
USA
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Posted - Monday, May 2, 2005 - 3:44 AM
| No, no, I was not asking that. I was aksing why 'When the zygote divides into two cells and due to some reasons each cell acts as one zygote leading to the development of two separate babies called IDENTICAL TWINS' What is that reason for zygote division - do you know? |
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Loveall
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Tuesday, May 3, 2005 - 9:15 PM
QUOTE: No, no, I was not asking that. I was aksing why 'When the zygote divides into two cells and due to some reasons each cell acts as one zygote leading to the development of two separate babies called IDENTICAL TWINS' What is that reason for zygote division - do you know?
When a student, I had read, “The reason is unknown” There may be some information in the latest books, journals, websites but I do not know. |
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hkhan
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Friday, May 6, 2005 - 9:56 AM
Quote: No, no, I was not asking that. I was aksing why 'When the zygote divides into two cells and due to some reasons each cell acts as one zygote leading to the development of two separate babies called IDENTICAL TWINS' What is that reason for zygote division - do you know?
This is what Wahiduddin Khan sb explains in his book translated into English as 'God Arises' that Science can answer'How' but not 'Why' and 'Who' and that is where we need to believe in 'God' . e.g. Science can answer that Red blood cells are red. How? because they contain a protein chemical called hemoglobin which is bright red in color.
http://sln.fi.edu/biosci/blood/red.html
But 'Why'? Why Haemoglobin was not given any other colour? 'Who' decides this?
The purpose of embryo research is wholly to develop cure for diseases. These embryos used are either grown for research purpose or are the ones which were going to waste anyway i.e. not wanted e.g. sometimes a couple does not wish to freeze the rest of the embryos.
None of the muslim countries are doing this research at State level as far as I know.
More that 20 years back, Saudi Government sponsored Dr.Keith L. Moore. a Canadian embryologist, to research on embryonic development in the light of Qura'n, which proved that all the stages discovered by Science today have been mentioned briefly in Qura'n ; rather Dr.Keith Moore admitted that he added the stage of Alaqa(leech like) to his studies from Qura'n.
The developing Human With Islamic Additions. 1982. Publishers W.B.Saunders
But this dilemma exists in every sort of research. Muslims have generally closed the doors of research upon themselves since about 1400 A.D.; be it research in the field of any scientific or religious fact like research on the sayings and acts of the beloved prophet Muhammad sws and his companions.
Rather they feel safe to just act upon whatever was written untill then by scholars of the past and if any body or a group dares to venture research in the field of religion , they are threatened 'that their arms and legs will be broken'  (See guest book monthly Renaissance) |
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oosman
USA
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Posted - Friday, May 6, 2005 - 5:22 PM
| That is sad but true that Muslims have stopped advancing in the sciences. Some Muslims even say that let the infidels do all the work in science and let us benefit from their work, meanwhile we can concentrate on religion. I wonder what makes these people think that the infidels will just hand over their work to you so you can benefit? |
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Loveall
PAKISTAN
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Posted - Friday, May 6, 2005 - 11:43 PM
Assalamo alaikum’
QUOTE: This is what Wahiduddin Khan sb explains in his book translated into English as 'God Arises' that Science can answer'How' but not 'Why' and 'Who' and that is where we need to believe in 'God'
Thank you, the concept of Why and Who solves the problem beautifully. This is the level where even angel Jebraeel (ale salam) feels burning his feathers and what are we and the infidels? |
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perv1
UNITED KINGDOM
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Posted - Saturday, May 7, 2005 - 3:07 PM
Science can answer'How' but not 'Why' and 'Who' and that is where we need to believe in 'God'
Dear hkhan very thoughtful as ever. I have sought the answer 'why' all my life. Hence I was delighted to read your statement above can you please explain it little further so at least one of my life's ? can be resolved at last.
Salaam |
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